1941 Letter Bill W. to Dr. Bob -Stealing funds from AA

The following is a two page letter written by Bill W. to Dr. Bob, the co-founders of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Dated 1941, the same year that the Alcoholic Foundation (now the GSO) was practically bankrupt, Bill admits to Dr. Bob that he has been using funds from AA for his personal living expenses. Note that hundreds of dollars in the 1940’s is equivalent to thousands of dollars today (2012).

While the other board members were working legitimate jobs to support themselves and their families, Bill W. lived off of the Alcoholic Foundation and used profits from Big Book sales to pay his mortgage and “buy coal”, etc. That money however was supposed to represent relevant stock for the shareholders and ensure that the AA movement carried on.

Notice how Bill tries to entice Dr. Bob to accept stolen funds as well:

“But I gather the impression that maybe you need some of this dough just as much as I do so I have pried $500.00 out of the book and I am sending you herewith two checks, one for $300.00 endorsable back to Lois and one for $200.00 which I want you to hang on to if you are pressed in the least”.

Bill Wilson regularly preached serenity and sound spiritual principles to his peers. However, while encouraging them to take responsibility for their lives, actions, and display “honesty and morality”, he lived greedily while stealing from the very same people that he lectured.

His hypocritical life style will continue to be revealed.

Link to see the letter closer up and readable:
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=237

Edited with the following addition:

A memo from February, 1941 discloses an analyzation regarding the then current financial status of the Alcoholic Foundation and the predicted costs for future enterprises.

"MEMORANDUM TO THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE ALCOHOLIC FOUNDATION"

"SUBJECT: - Estimated cost of operating The Alcoholic Foundation office at 30 Vesey
St., New York City, for the 12 months beginning April 1st, 1941."

http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/1776/edit

"Miss Hock and I have just been going over the financial requirements of the 30 Vesey St. Foundation office for the coming 12 months. After examining the cost of operation during the year just passed, taking into consideration the coming Saturday Evening Post article and the rapid growth of the groups everywhere, we believe we are facing a very serious deficit which in the next 12 months will amount to $4,000 if we reply to all inquiries and do not curtail our services." ~Bold emphasis is mine.

According to the memo it was predicted that upcoming costs to run the foundation for 1941 was $8,200.00, however it was maintained that only $1,00.00 would be accumulated from Big Book sales. Therefore, the remaining 7,000.00 would need to come from outside contributions.

*Nowadays this comes to roughly $120,000, a substantial amount of money for a non profit corporation that in it's infancy was functioning mainly by donations.

"Practically all of the money received from The Alcoholic Foundation re-presented donations from individuals outside the A.A. groups."

and later...

"It is my understanding that the funds of The Alcoholic Foundation are almost exhausted; that while some funds may come in from outside sources during the year we can count on $1000 from Mr. R. as a certainty now."

Nowhere througout the memo and the detailed chart summaries is it listed or mentioned that the mortgage and livelihood of Bill Wilson should be accounted for. Contrary to this, Bill expresses that the finances of the foundation be known not only to the trustees but to the group as well.

By his own acknowledgement, Bil W. impressed upon others the need to be frugal and use finances only to spread the message. However he himself used funds for his own personal gain and financial stability:

"A final suggestion. In asking the groups to adopt this plan, I feel it very important that they be assured their contributions will be used for office ex-penses only. I think the Alcoholic Foundation should set up a special account to be called "A.A. operating expenses". All contributions from the groups should be segregated in this fund. Moreover, I think each group is entitled to know exactly how such money is spent. Therefore an accounting ought to be made by the Trustees every six months showing receipts and expenditures from this group fund.

It also ought to be stipulated that no alcoholic can ever be paid a salary out of this account since its purpose is to provide office expenses -- and office expenses only.

Of course you Trustees understand that these are merely my own ideas which you may wish to modify or discard entirely. As you will doubtless recall, the affairs of Works Publishing Inc. have been entirely out of my hands since it was incorporated in June 1940. The Alcoholic Foundation now controls and principally owns this company. Consequently the Trustees may new administer the book company funds as they think best."

Comments

NoAAUK's picture

This is the kind of thing that needs to go on an Orange Papers Pamphlet to be sent out to people like that school in Yorkshire showing Bill W plays to children.

And plenty of evidence of sexual predation, we all know its considered as the norm in stepper cults

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

JR Harris's picture

Sounds like money laundering to me. Why would Dill Wilson have Dr.Bob sign a check endorsable back to Lois? I believe the crook just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and interstate transfer of funds illegally, a federal offense...........

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

JR Harris's picture

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

It was God's will that he did this (step11).

avogadno's picture

Notice I updated the blog to include the memo from 1941 that proves the foundation was facing a huge deficit. It also stipulated that all funds should be used only for office expenses. Not Bill's personal bills!

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Trisha K.'s picture

This is so funny.
AA had no problem making changes to accommodate Bill and others but members from the OP, 70 years later, do. Also ridiculous we have members here that can determine from a couple of letters what was going on 70 years ago...lmao!!
Do you know how stupid you all look, seriously. You don't have anything here on any link that shows Bill or Bob did anything illegal, inappropriate or unethical.
They started a program and produced a book, they had every right to benefit from it all. End of story. IMO!!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

alkieanon's picture

Can't change the past, but someone's always trying to rewrite history to suit their agenda.
A perfect example of historical revisionism (negationism)
“History is always written wrong, and so always needs to be rewritten.” -George Santayana

NoAAUK's picture

"Do you know how stupid you all look, seriously"

You obviously don't know how stupid you look parroting all that stepper cult shit at your meetings and nodding your heads solmenly like gurus in possesion of special knowledge.

And as for chanting "keep coming back it works" while holding hands and waving them up and down, how much more stupid could you look LOL

Ha Ha Ha..........stupid stepper cult zombies

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

We all know that the true evidence for efficacy is the way something looks.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

"Not Bill's personal bills!"
Avo, I understand that you get excited rather easily and it often coincides with you lying about circumstances happening during these anxious times. But if you could find a couple of minutes of rational thinking time and GET SOME DAMN PROOF THAT BILL W. WAS RIPPING OFF AA FOR HIS OWN PROFIT. I would be most grateful.
Thanks in advance...:)

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

I believe that Bill Wilson's mortgage and Dr. Bob's are personal bills Danny. If I, you or anyone started a non profit and siphoned off $4,690.10 in one month ($300 in 1941 is equal to $4,690.10 in 2012) by sending a third party check to be signed fraudulently, we would be in jail in today's time and legal atmosphere.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

avogadno's picture

I'm not interested in trying to convince you of anything, Trisha. I don't care what you think.

For those that are interested, the evidence is here. How you or anyone else chooses to analyze is up to them. There is a mountain of research available and even more in the locked archives of AA.org, as well as Hazelden.

Bill Wilson wasn't entitled to funds from the Alcoholic Foundation in 1941, and documentation shows that he helped himself to money that was intended to be used in helping alcoholics.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

avogadno's picture

Notice how in February Bill says

"As you will doubtless recall, the affairs of Works Publishing Inc. have been entirely out of my hands since it was incorporated in June 1940. The Alcoholic Foundation now controls and principally owns this company."

Yet he is able to "take a $500.00 swipe at those back royalties" in August of '41?

But quiet now, don't tell anyone else. If the alcoholics realize that I'm corrupt then they might not be able to acheive sobriety.

To get a closer view of the letters/pics:
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=237&p=1487#...

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

JR Harris's picture

The History Detectives explore a 1942 letter from The Alcoholic Foundation (AA) to Herbert Wallace - Season 4, Episode 7 - 2006 http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1745

In this letter, portrayed in a nationally shown program, they seem to forget that Bill Wilson was in essence looking for more funding. The cult of Alcoholics Anonymous was able to turn it into a propaganda piece totally "overlooking" the purpose of the letter and just praising the "slanted" history of Alcoholics Anonymous.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Trisha K.'s picture

Imagine that!!! Bill looking to have his vision funded so he can make money. The owner of the Dallas Mavericks, Mark Cuban has a realty show, "The Benefactor" where hopeful entrepreneurs do just that. Bill must have got some of those ideas from his days working within the stock market.
Damn it!! That Bill Wilson, does he have no shame. Man goes out on the street looking for money to fund his vision, while also considering getting paid (making some bank).
Damn it!!! Just what kind of country do we live in.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

avogadno's picture

JR said:

"The cult of Alcoholics Anonymous was able to turn it into a propaganda piece totally "overlooking" the purpose of the letter and just praising the "slanted" history of Alcoholics Anonymous."

That appears to have been happening all along. The supposed history that has been written so far is actually just a mixture of mostly fiction, sporadic non-fiction, and a bunch of false portrayal. Through time and as leaks have occurred, more books have been published that included a dash of some truth. However the overall billshit continued.

The vision of an organization built with purity through the American Way that Trisha tries to keep alive is thin smoke hoping to obscure any readers of the real truth. Any child can see right through it though. The letter speaks for itself.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Orange's picture

More documentation and grist for the mill.

That item about Dr. Bob laundering a check that went to Lois Wilson rings a bell.
Another historic letter about A.A. finances says:

"The arrearage of royalties payable to Dr. Smith has been cleared up, a large part of which he generously turned over to Mr. Wilson."

Oh really? The desperately poor Dr. Bob, who was having troubles paying his mortgage and keeping his house, was turning "his royalites" (to which he was not entitled) over to Bill Wilson?
Bill W. was such a con artist that he was even exploiting Dr. Bob.

More details at:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-letters131.html#from_Dr_Bob

Trisha K.'s picture

Orange wrote:
"Oh really? The desperately poor Dr. Bob, who was having troubles paying his mortgage and keeping his house, was turning "his royalites" (to which he was not entitled) over to Bill Wilson?"

Trisha says:
At least we NOW know why all of his sheep (JR, Avo and the gang) follow the same disinformation path.
Orange would you care to state the years Bob received money to pay his mortgage and the year he started handing a portion of his royalties over to Lois.
I understand you might not have been the alcoholic Bob was, so in your case you were able to maintain your good income, house, 2 cars and your lovely family, but as with many alcoholics finances take a big hit, so Bob had difficulty paying his mortgage. Can't tell you how many people I know that needed financial support of some kind till they got themselves going again.
I just wondered if that made any difference at all.....lmao!!!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Orange's picture

The fact that Dr. Bob was in financial difficulties is well-documented in a variety of official A.A. history books. I'm talking "council-approved" A.A.W.S. literature here.

I'm at the library at this minute, so I don't have the books handy, but I think it's in Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, by Bill Wilson. And almost certainly in several others.
Check out PASS IT ON, and Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers.

What also comes to mind is the financial documents where Bill Wilson asked the A.A. organization — "The Alcoholic Foundation" — to give Dr. Bob a share of the
Big Book royalties to Dr. Bob because he was having trouble paying his house mortgage.
See: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cleve1944.html

Note that neither Bill Wilson nor Dr. Bob were entitled to any royalties. The original agreement stated that Bill Wilson would be paid $1000 cash for writing the opening chapters of the book, and the royalties would all go to the Alcoholic Foundation.
See: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-prospectus.html

Bill Wilson also got money from John D. Rockefeller Jr. for Dr. Bob, again stating the same reason — that Dr. Bob couldn't pay his mortgage.

Then, somehow, Bill Wilson managed to arrange things to that Dr. Bob "generously" donated his money to Bill Wilson.

Outrageous.

Orange's picture

I went home and looked up Bill Wilson's statements about Dr. Bob needing money to avoid losing his house. I found:

In Alcoholics Anonymous Comes Of Age, on pages 147 to 151, Bill Wilson wrote about the dinner with John D. Rockefeller Jr. in December of 1937, where Bill Wilson hoped to get money. And he wrote:


"We knew Dr. Bob was facing a mortgage foreclosure on his home, and if any money was forthcoming, he needed it more than any of the rest of us."

AACOA, pp 149-150.

On page 151, Rockefeller said, "I will place $5000 for their use in the treasury of the Riverside Church. You may draw on it as you like."

Bill did not say how much of it he took, and how much Dr. Bob got.

The fact remains that by 1944, Bill had Dr. Bob giving him the money that was due Dr. Bob, and Clarence Snyder was complaining about Bill Wilson's financial dishonesty.
See: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cleve1944.html

Bill Wilson had a habit of hiding behind others. Instead of saying "I think," or "I want," he would say, "Miss Hock and I think," or "Dr. Bob and I think," or "The Alcoholic Foundation needs money." In this case, he made a big deal of how desperate Dr. Bob was for money, and got money from both John D. Rockefeller Jr. and The Alcoholic Foundation for Dr. Bob, and then he ended up getting the money away from Dr. Bob, and taking it for himself. What a racket. Bill Wilson was really quite a piece of work.


Narcissistic vampires believe they are so special that the rules don't apply to them. They expect the red carpet to be rolled out for them wherever they go, and if it isn't, they get quite surly.

      They don't wait, they don't recycle, they don't pay retail, they don't stand in line, they don't clean up after themselves, they don't let other people get in front of them in traffic, and their income taxes rival great works of fiction. Illness and even death is no excuse for other people not immediately jumping up to meet their needs. They aren't the least bit ashamed of using other people and systems for their own personal gain. They boast about how they take advantage of just about everybody.

Emotional Vampires: Dealing with People Who Drain You Dry, Albert J. Bernstein, Ph.D., pages 135-136.

avogadno's picture

Trisha says:

"Can't tell you how many people I know that needed financial support of some kind till they got themselves going again".

Duh huh! So times were rough for Bill W. eh? Newsflash Danny: This was 1941 and 6 years after Bill Wilson got sober. He had plenty of time to find a job and start working again to pay his bills and get back on track. Instead of doing that he decided to freeload off of others and ALSO steal from his friends AND other alcoholics that had been suffering the same fate as him. While freeloading, stealing, conning, and lying to them he at the same time preached to them about how they should be honest, willing, and humble. The sick bastard.

I've known a few alcoholics that recovered also. Some got their lives back and got a job, biting the bullet and doing without until they could afford to buy for themselves what they wanted and deserved. There was also some that quit drinking and decided to be freeloading, lying and and cheating bastards. The same kind of folk as Bill Wilson.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

JR Harris's picture

He also gave 10% of those royalties to Helen Wynn, a no name in building the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous that was also his mistress according to Francis Hartigan, Lois's personal secretary. In 1941 there was no reason for Bill Wilson to send a check that was endorsed to Lois, it was fraud. Plain and simple.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Trisha K.'s picture

Thanks but this has nothing to do with my comments.

Do you even know who Clarence Snyder was, what impact he had on AA and why he was considered a constant trouble maker?

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

Why do you keep bringing up Clarence Snyder? Are you feeling guilty about something? That is a sign of denial you know? Please get help for at least one of your personalities....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

You're not making any sense, Trisha. If Dr. Bob was having trouble paying his bills, why was he turning his royalties-or any other monies for that matter-over to Bill? The issue at hand is that Bill was a con man not that Bob was in financial straits.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Trisha K.'s picture

You know what I do know, gigi. You absolutely have no idea what the hell your talking about nor does JR, who posted this article. None of you know what was really being discussed and how it was being interpreted amongst the administrators at the time in the 40's.
Keep trying to connect dots that are not even there. It is one thing to have an opinion on what Bill did, it is another to insinuate that what he was doing was being objected to by the people at the time. NO ONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH WHAT BILL WAS DOING....EVER!!!
All you are doing here is spinning a large ball of yarnshit...lol.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

avogadno's picture

lol Trisha, it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't have a problem with Bill W. being a thief and liar while also preaching to others. What he did was not only against the law but would be decidingly frowned upon by his "friends" had they known about this then and even now.

What you forget or don't understand is that Bill didn't put the expenses of his mortgage and personal life in the account books and he was was explicit that funds were only to be used for office expenses. If this wasn't a problem for others he wouldn't have kept it hidden and lied to cover his withdraws, a practice to which he even claimed prior that he wasn't even entitled to do.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Trisha K.'s picture

Avo wrote:
"lol Trisha, it doesn't surprise me at all that you don't have a problem with Bill W. being a thief and liar while also preaching to others."

Trisha wrote:
Avo, I am going to take the high road here and get out of the way of a bitter women.
You have your opinion of Bill W. which I find completely unsubstantiated. I am tired of arguing about it because I have seen what you call evidence and it doesn't meet a level of integrity, IMO.
I am talking exclusively about Bill W. right now. Not the efficacy of the AA program.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

Your arguments are loosing there also..... "Why do people insist AA is not religious?/Efficacy of AA & other treatment programs"
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=e561a807d781324e09d7812f4043a24...

You're on the wrong thread, on the wrong site and the wrong fake user name.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Trisha K.'s picture

gigi, check the year when Bob received a check from Bill and when Bob turned over his royalty check to Lois.
Think now, gigi. You can do it.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Go back and check your own response to Orange, which I responded to, and try to figure out why I said that it doesn't make sense.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Trisha K.'s picture

Why??? I said virtually the same thing to Orange that I said to you. There were years between Bob receiving money from Bill and Bob giving money to Lois.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Trisha K.'s picture

gigi, we are talking two different times here. When Bob received money from Bill this happened early in his sobriety and then when he had decided to give Lois a share of his royalties, this was later.
Think about it, early in Bob's sobriety the book wasn't selling, so there wasn't any royalties to be had. The royalties didn't start coming in till later in earnest. Actually Bob wasn't alive when they really started coming in.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

Bill Wilson had already taken possession of the Stepping Stones Compound he conned the widow Helen Griffith out of with the the help of Joan C the real estate AA member. Your dates and timetable need to be looked at closer. Bill Wilson was "skimming" off the pot....

See "Stepping Stones - did Bill Wilson scam a widow with help? " http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/230

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

avogadno's picture

Dr. Bob was still working when he had his last drink. In fact, he was actually working WHILE he had his last drink. He performed an operation under the influence of beer and a “goof ball” in June of 1935:

“Scheduled for a surgery at City Hospital, Bob pronounced, “I am going through with this - I have placed both operation and myself in God’s hands. I’m going to do what it takes to get sober and stay that way.” Bill gave Bob his last drink (a beer) and a “goofball” [a barbiturate] to steady him prior to the surgery.”

Then in 1938 Dr. Bob’smortgage was paid off by Rockefeller.

“Rockefeller refused to make the donation but provided $5,000 ($65,000 today) to be held in a fund in the Riverside Church treasury. Much of the fund was used to payoff Dr Bob’s mortgage and provide Bill and Bob with $30 a week ($390 today) as long as the fund lasted.”

Dr. Bob’s mortgage was paid off long before this letter (in 1941). Also, Dr. Bob didn't deserve royalties and wasn't entitled to them. The money that Bill Wilson was swindling out of the company in 1941 had nothing to do with royalties anyway. These were donations to keep the foundation running and to carry the message to the alcoholic that still suffers, not the recovering alcoholic that is no longer suffering and perfectly capable of working and earning their living.

Bill W. swindled $500 from the foundation and wrote Dr. Bob, telling him of his plan and suggested that Dr. Bob do the same. Not only did he suggest it, Bill sent Bob two checks that totaled $500. Because he's a manipulating and conning bastard Bill told Bob that he's so broke that he will need $300 of the money he stole for Bob, back, and if he'll just co-sign the back of one of the checks (make it payable to Lois) and send it back to Bill then he will have enough money to pay his debts. Notice how he said that the extra $200 should be held onto by Bob and used whenever he needs it. As if it was a personal gift from Bill to him and not stolen hush money. Slimey bastard!!

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Y'know what I know, Trisha? Your reading comprehension skills suck.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

for the rest of the recovery industry to start up rehabs, care units, resorts, alano club chains, and plenty of money making operations so long as they could distance themselves through a little legal manuvering in the traditions and say its "NOT AA". HAHA....Bill W. the lazy lump deadbeat womanizing slug and the criminal doctor doing operations while blacked out. What a pair!

Anthro

"NO ONE HAD A PROBLEM WITH WHAT BILL WAS DOING....EVER!!!"

Hmmm. What about Clarence Snyder, the Homebrewmeister?
He had a problem with what Bill was doing. So much so that once he passed away, they made darn sure to dump his story out of the 4th edition Big Book.

Trisha K.'s picture

Read Oranges links again. His own state of Ohio didn't side or agree with him. Clarence was a jealous and disgruntle trouble maker.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

Danny, that $300 in 1941 is worth $4,690.10 in 2012, he would be in jail today if he tried that. Why do you keep bringing up Clarence Snyder? Are the voices in your head telling you too?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Doesn't matter who sided with him or not. You stated nobody had a problem with what Bill was doing. Clarence Snyder did.
How about Tom Powers? Didn't he walk out while writing the 12 x 12 because he couldn't take any more of the hypocritical bullshit? What about Henrietta Sieberling?

avogadno's picture

Yes and the GSO learned from the Bill Wilson tactics. The proof is in the letters and there is a mountain of them. It gets ignored by many of the faithful on the basis that it will hurt their sobriety to even acknowledge the truth.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Trisha K.'s picture

Avo, I want to thank you for bringing all this attention to the letters passed between Bill, Bob and other AA members, administrators and associates.
Since you and others have made such salacious allegations pertaining to Bill and Dr.Bob's motives concerning monies, I believe more people then normally have read the letters. But as we can all see nobody even wants to touch your opinions concerning what the letters mean. Well except for a few screw balls here.
JR likes to brag about the amount of hits this site gets, well I like to think that since many of the members who appreciate AA have come here, WE have generated interest for people out on the INTERNET to at least take a look.
Just so you know Avo, we don't ignore AA's history. When we read the letters Avo, we don't see the same thing you do

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

What is your opinion of Bill Wilson?

Trisha K.'s picture

flannigan, I have written about it all over this site.
The man was a visionary and brought a lifeline to millions who were drowning. Do I consider Bill a messiah, no. IMO he was just a man amongst men.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Orange's picture

Actually, no. That is what this whole Orange Papers project is all about. Bill Wilson was a fraud who sold a copy of Frank Buchman's cult religion as a quack cure for alcohol addiction. And it just does not work.
A.A. has never "saved millions", or "helped millions." It just deceived millions.

If you think that A.A. works, and has helped millions, then please answer this one simple question that no Stepper has ever answered honestly:




What is the REAL A.A. success rate?

Out of each 1000 newcomers to A.A., how many will pick up a one-year
sobriety medallion a year later?
Or even several years later?
And how many will get their 2-year, and 5-year, and 10-year coins? Ever?
How about 11 years and 21 years?

(HINT: the answers are here and here and here.)


You can see this file for all of the rest of the information on the A.A. failure rate:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html
Trisha K.'s picture

Duplicate...

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Trisha K.'s picture

Bill took information from Frank Bucmans, several doctors, his own experiences ect....and created a book. Bill actually found Frank to be an extremist along with his movement and ran from him as fast as he could. But of course you couldn't provide this tidbit of info.
What I have noticed here, is, the ability to put an ever so slightet spin on the information you folks provide here and you can take an other wise innocent letter exchanged between two friends and turn it into an conspiracy being hatched.
Bill W. and Dr. Bobs most significant gift they left for the struggling alcoholics after their deaths was the rescue from the loneliness only drugs and alcohol can bring.
I don't believe we need science based studies to prove this nor does it matter if alcoholism is a disease or not.
AA does have one slogan it uses that I do like and I think it is appropriate for here, now. "Keep it simple."

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

If they were mandated by the US court Systems and paid for by insurance you would be being bitten by snakes and performing voodoo rituals in church basements instead of chanting Bill WIlson.

Is Serpent Handling Spiritual or Religious? Can being bitten by a deadly snake make you Spiritual, Religious or both? http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1792

Spiritual? Religious? Vodou, also spelled Voodoo, Voudou, Vodun, or French Vaudou? http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1791

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

"Bill actually found Frank to be an extremist along with his movement and ran from him as fast as he could."

So where did you get that informtion from?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

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