AA suicides

jonnijoy's picture
Submitted by jonnijoy on Wed, 06/20/2012 - 16:48

Forums:

I was just looking around anti AA sites and found out that over at leaving AA.com they had made an ex stepper named Ryan, who committed suicide another casualty of AA. It just blows my mind how someone who spent 2 years in AA but was out of the program longer took his life because of his involvement with AA. She also let everybody know that his sister committed suicide also, before him and had no affiliation with AA. This is really sick, coming from somebody who admittedly has 36 years in AA and is currently married to a stepper. How can you possibly blame someone like this who obviously had a serious problem with depression on AA, so many years later? Thoughts

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:36

"I know you are really something ... you are so awesome!"

Thank you, patti!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 10:50

Sue; Ok I checked it out and evidently Ryans sister had been in AA. IDK if she was still in AA when she did herself in or not but I was wrong. She was in AA at some time. You see some people CAN admit when they are wrong. No matter what, this tragic family history has nothing at all to do with AA.
Jr Harris; who cares if I mess around and say silly things to try to make the super prejudiced Patti react. That is all you do on this forum. Sue calls me boy and its ok, I call Sue boy and its childish. lol You will never be taken seriously by anyone in their right mind Jr Harris.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 10:53

"Principal before personalities" remember? Please do your research and cut down the baby talk please.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 12:15

That is certainly true.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 12:58

A guy just walked into the ocean here 18 months ago and died. I'm pretty sure AA was behind it, those fuckers. What's that? Was he in AA? No, he had lost money gambling. Why do you ask?

AA is behind it, you say? Geez, I never thought . . .

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 12:23

JJ,
in order to be prejudice one has to have an unfavorable opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought or reason. Its impossible for an ex AA member to be prejudiced against AA. Being anti AA is based upon the knowledge that it is a dangerous cult, that Wilson was an immoral man & that his psychological & controlling advise is hidden behind the guise of religion. Wilson & AA are cons. Being anti AA is based upon its appalling failure rate of over 95%, this isn't prejudiced this is based upon the knowledge of AA s ineffectiveness & failures. Being anti AA is based upon the people I've witnessed damaged by it. The families I've witnessed being torn apart by AA & Al anon s seriously unqualified & damaging psychological advise. You & I & other former AA members know Al anon was only created upon Wilson's want to have Lois out of his way & removed from AA meetings so that he could commit adultery & prey upon the desperate & vulnerable female addicts. Wilson batters Lois & other spouses & children in the "To the Wife's" chapter in the BB. Being anti AA is based upon the knowledge that Wilson was about Wilson & that AA was about Wilson earning a living by creating a mind controlling religious cult & exploiting its members for their money, time, for places to live, for a Cadillac, for sex & so Wilson could have power over people. Being anti AA is about knowing that Wilson exploited by manipulating an elderly widow for her home way below its fair market value. Out of all the reprehensible & despicable Wilson actions that is one of the scummiest & most disgusting. So JJ just so there is no misunderstanding prejudice or "super" prejudice can only be when one has an unfavorable opinion without knowledge. That isn't the situation here. But I did react so you should feel in control of that & that should get you off a bit.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:03

"in order to be prejudice one has to have an unfavorable opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought or reason."

This could not be more wrong.

Your posts are so packed with misinterpretations and unilateral disorder that no one has the time to dismantle them phrase by phrase and point out your frank insanity. I feel sorry for you, patti, because you are just pissing in the wind, unable to express anything meaningful or substantial.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:25

sorry Becket but that is what prejudice is its an unfavorable opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought or reason. Becket "this could not be more wrong" that you are right is only in your mind. My post was about what a piece of garbage Wilson was & how ineffective AA is but you chose to not dismantle it phrase by phrase. What can you write or defend about AA? No typical stepper desperation try a personal attack. The unqualified diagnosis & your desperate control freak tactics. Oh Becket do you really think your attempts to insult or your control freak tactics have any impact or significance to anyone but you & the other trolls? Control freak tactic disregard the issue, lie about the definition of prejudice & try to attack the individual you want to control by attempting to insult or belittle them. Becket I left AA remember? Desperate control freak & AA stepper tactics don't work on me or anyone else that left the rooms. Its over Becket.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 15:53

Sorry, patti, but one cannot form an unfavorable opinion "beforehand", as in before they investigate the subject. That is just idiotic.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 16:32

that is exactly what prejudice is forming an unfavorable opinion beforehand. Becket you can't be this dumb.

patti

gigi

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 16:42

prej·u·dice
   [prej-uh-dis] Show IPA noun, verb, prej·u·diced, prej·u·dic·ing.

noun
1.
an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

2.
any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.

3.
unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, especially of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 18:04

One cannot form an unfavorable opinion, or even a favorable opinion, about anything s/he has not encountered yet, unless you're referring to someone who takes gossip as gospel. But of course, you have failed to detail your concept.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 17:43

You are hilarious. Even when you are wrong you are right! Again this all exists only in your mind!

patti

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 17:53

I'm wrong? Prove it.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 17:57

Is this a school yard? Latest demand from the dictator. I'll get right on it.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:11

Can't do it?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:22

I think. Ya ya I can .Oh well just ask me. What comes out I hope pleases you. So go ahead ask. I am ready as I am going to be. For your own sake please be gentle ok?

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:24

"Can't do it?" was directed at patti. Sorry, steve, no fisticuffs at this time.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 12:32

Jr Harris says; "Principal before personalities" remember? Please do your research and cut down the baby talk please.
JJ says; You mean like 'chanting', 'coven'. 'high priestess''? lol Are you from area 51?

Jr Harris says; You must be getting it from alkieanon
JJ says; Sorry wrong again. I have never talked to Alkie, though I do admire his fact finding ability, humor and honesty. Actually I went on blog radio to listen to Ryan say something about the incident but he kept being interrupted by your high priestess monica. The poor kid could hardly get a word in. I never actually heard him say it. The show is to long and boring and I have better things to do with my time. Here it is; AA and Suicide- A Young Man Loses his Sister to Suicide 11/01 by stop13stepAA.com

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 16:52

But JJ, those are standard terms for cults that I am using. Look at any cult and when people identify them those are the words they use. I'm not going to use the "special language" to identify the cult aspects of Alcoholics Anonymous. It isn't an "Intergroup" it's a "coven", it isn't an "AA meeting", it is a "ritual chanting ceremony." What is so hard to under stand about that? They are standard words for a cult.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 18:05

b-o-r-i-n-g . . .

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 12:37

Clara, I was reading about your dog that passed away recently, im really sorry for you. My avatar is of my dog that passed away 2 years ago his name was grover. He was a shepherd/chow mix I picked up at a rescue. Had him 12 years when he died of lymphoma. The picture was the day before he died, he wanted to be outside and I had to go to work so i put my grateful dead blanket on him.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 12:59

It was a very sad time. There aren't the types of options for vet care out here that I would have liked - cyber knife and the like. He had brain cancer. Thank you for your kindness. It's tough, isn't it?

The day I put him down was doubly bad because that was the day Anti started her garbage. I'll be always be grateful to Ben for shutting her down on the new forum because no one had the courage to do that here.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

mfc66uk

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:29

Actually nobody shut anti down on my forum, i did however point out out the problems caused by ignorant people like yourself on the orange papers forum was not an issue that was relevant on mine. Orange can run his forum how he likes and if people don't like it they should tell him not put it on mine.
See you are still trying to get some sympathy with the dead dog, nothing changes here then.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:38

Actually, I believe that Ben did. He made it clear to her that if she felt she had a legal wrong, to go to the police about it, but it wasn't going to take over the forum. No one was ignorant, Mfc, not here or there, and you had nothing to do with it. I think he handled it maturely. She apparently took issue with that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:49

....

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 15:55

Yeah, goddammit Clara, your grief has gone on too long, you must be faking it!!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 16:31

Believe me, I will grieve that little guy for a long time.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:34

Lol u mfc are still crying bout how mean n nasty that ole aa is. What's worse?

mfc66uk

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 13:57

Anti is actually still a member of the forum.
oh and i dont cry about AA - I tend to laugh at it.
However talking about somebody who has commited suicide in the way that some have here just shows the serenity level of some of its members. By the way, I prefer the dog picture to the wanker on the harley.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 14:29

I am sure that she is. She is stil a member here. She goes off and pouts, but then springs back. But Ben was right.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 15:41

I think it is sad that anyone would commit suicide, but I also know from my own experiences that people that commit suicide don't do it because they went to some AA meetings. There are many other factors at work. In the cases I've known both in and out of AA, the reasons were catastrophic illness, financial loss and failure, and a spouse leaving.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 05:28

***************************************************
Clara

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 17:41

Permalink

Clara said: "I think it is sad that anyone would commit suicide, but I also know from my own experiences that people that commit suicide don't do it because they went to some AA meetings. There are many other factors at work. In the cases I've known both in and out of AA, the reasons were catastrophic illness, financial loss and failure, and a spouse leaving.

My comments on OPF represent my views only and do not represent those of AA.

***************************************************

Yes, CLar, suicides are sad. All human beings are special. And yes, CLar, there are almost always complex, unique facts and circumstances that lead some to take that final solution, suicide.

CLar, you say in your statment above the reasons for some suicides of people you have known were catastrophic illness, finanicial loss and a spouse leaving.

And I am saying that the reason SOME suicides of AA members are due to their membership in AA and the AA member believing the AA/12 step thinkspeak to the point that they are overwhelmed with despair when god does not perform that miracle AA promises. That AA promise being that if you work the steps god will remove your character defects, and the "disease" will be "arrested".

So if you believe that illness, finances and spouses leaving are reasons for suicide, why can't you admit that AA is the reason for SOME suicides of AA members. Not all, but some.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 14:29

Mfc laughing about it is cool. That's where I am at also

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 14:30

Nobody made me walk in those doors and i left it no problem

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:47

is that how you spell it? I left too. No problem. Nobody MAKES you walk anywhere you dope!! It is what is offered after you get inside that is the problem. What are you doing on this site? Come on tell me, according to Becket ,"spew". This is what she accuses us of doing. So lets's hear it JJ. Is that the real deal or a RR in your pics? Lets get it, or are you going to ____ slap me brother? I think not!!

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:23

Have a good evening, folks. Have to be up earlier to take the benz into the dealership. I will leave y'll to your fun!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

steve cochrane's picture

steve cochrane

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:36

It is fun isn't it?

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 18:45

So when did you get the Benz? Did you buy it in Jacksonville on Easter when you rented your Harley? Clara, Did you fly the Miata to Jacksonville also to trade it in? Get American made stuff if you are going to be living in America and pretending to be the "elite." Act more like the honest members in Area 66 District 10 for a while. And quit cutting them down.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

patti

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 09:25

OMG
have to take the Benz to the dealership! Ha ha AA member drives a Benz. Oh please this is just too childish & transparent & ugly.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:22

I have no idea what you mean by that, Patti, but I disclosed in March that I had totaled my Lexus during my last drunk and bought a replacement vehicle. You must not have noticed.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:22

It suspiciously sounds like you're bragging about the kind of car you drive. Who cares and why would you mention it? No one cares that you had to get up early or why anyway. Let alone the fact that you argue day in and out in this forum with practically everyone. Announcing to your foes that you're going to sleep, blah blah blah, reminds me of the false love in the rooms. They didn't give a fuck and only pretended as such. Phony phony phony.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:24

Oh, please. I don't consider most of the people on this forum to even be foes, Avo. Wishing people goodnight isn't generally considered poor form. I call things by their brand names. No big deal to anyone but you.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

gigi

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:40

She can't help it Avo. It's another symptom of the betterthanyouitis she's infected with. It's a cunning, baffling and powerful disease. Unfortunately, it's also progressive, incurable and fatal.

Nice chatting with you, but I've got to run mt Schwinn down to the bike shop for a new horn and basket!

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 14:17

Very good about the Schwinn. Do you have more than one bike? If so, then denoting it makes some sense.

God, you girls act as if it is the first time I've said something about this. It first came up when PIE was telling me the rather illustrious way a woman would describe how she was able to score meth. Then Ironic tried to put it in a fashion that she thought I could "understand." That is when I pointed out to her that plenty of us were able to have a Benz without blowing for it.

But i agree with PIE that the woman could have been a bit more circumspect in her approach to letting people know just how far she would go to get her drugs. I wouldn't have felt very at home there, either....

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 15:10

Ahhh yes, Clara. It was just as horrendous as you paint it. But let's share all of the proper details, lest anyone forget what a pit of scum that was. This was a sponsor (who was the only "eligible" female sponsor, btw) of 12 women at once who kept stating that she had "sucked dick for meth", while telling everyone that THAT is where addiction takes you. Not to the smaller lows that Clara might've faced, or even myself, but that we'd all end up meth-whores (which does really imply that it's such a strong force that we'd all be unable to resist meth in the first place, let alone addiction and prostitution for it). Quite a lovely "recovery" scene on the NA side, here.

I do not remember the Benz part of it, however. It has perhaps occurred to you by now that disclosing so much information is perhaps a bad idea? Obviously not. I personally don't care what kind of car you drive. That should be your own business, though now it's everyone's business. Is the causative relationship clearer now?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 15:29

Hey, I don't have a problem with self disclosure. It sure beats the fiction that some try to pass.

In any case, I wished people a good night. Perhaps some are simply trying to twist into a bigger deal than it was.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 16:01

I wasn't even saying that to criticize you, oddly enough. It's just a caution. If you're fine with it, then full steam ahead, I guess.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

patti

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 05:52

Clara,
what about the humility you have had bestowed upon you by God due to you joining Wilson's cult? Shouldn't you maybe be driving a less expensive car & donating money to AA to help the poor drunks who need to be saved by Wilson & you? Isn't being an AA member all about giving back? Just saying.

patti

flannigan

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:27

Why would anyone care what kind of car Clara drives???

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