AA suicides

AA by its nature (a hokey religion) does indeed cause some "alcoholic" AA members to suicide.

Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and the “treatment programs” that it is has spawned (12 step programs) can be harmful to the individual alcohol abuser. The discussion following will discuss AA/12 step programs and the human condition.

For ease of discussion any use of AA will be meant to incorporate AA and the numerous 12 step “programs” of alcohol abuse.

Upon its founding (1935) and continuing to today AA claims its program is one of spirituality and not religious. AA and its fellowship continues this claim despite the fact that AA has been examined by numerous state and federal courts and these various courts have ruled that AA is a religion. AA is, without a doubt, a religion.

This AA religion teaches that any individual that embraces the program of AA is powerless over alcohol; their life is unmanageable as a result of alcohol. AA the religion insists that the alcohol abuser is full of character defects. AA the religion insists these numerous character defects must be admitted to, examined and removed in order to survive to live another day.

AA the religion insists that one must turn their life over to god in order to live another day; to not do so will result in the individual finding their self in jail, prison, institutionalized or, ultimately, dead. Powerful stuff no?

AA the religion, by it true nature, can cause fear, anxiety, restlessness, despair, hopelessness, depression, anger and numerous other human emotions that are detrimental to the human condition. AA the religion throws into this mix all the numerous character defects and then tells the AA newcomer that only god can help (by miracles) with their dire situation. Miracles Performed Here.

When god does not perform the miracle for the newcomer some will become even more depressed, angry, hopeless, etc.

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Letters #1 & 2 received by Orange from readers of the Orange Papers.

#1

I forgot one thing. The suicide rate in AA of people sober longer than 15 years. Unfortunately a study has not been done, but the first eight years I was in AA, I knew (not just of, but knew) 17 people with over 15 years of sobriety, who committed suicide. Most of them were not "dry drunks". Also, I was present at a meeting where the husband of one member came in and shot his wife and then himself. I remember hearing for the next week how freaked people were that their "safe place" had been denigrated. I remember saying to people that they were nuts if this was their safe place as there were rapists, pedophiles, murderers, and other criminals sitting next to them at almost every meeting. If only I had understood the depth of that statement.

#2

Date: Sun, December XX, XXXX 1:45 pm
From: Anonymous
Dear Sir/ Madam,

I have enjoyed reading your material on the net concerning the AA cult. I spent 8 years of my life in this evil organisation. In that time I have seen many young men commit suicide, a direct result I believe of the program. I brought this subject up at meetings but of course they tried to put me down.
When I shared about being beaten by my parents as a child I was told to make amends to them! I just laughed loudly.

I have also seen sponsors, who think they're great spiritual masters, exploit women for sex. This is very common.

It is a difficult problem, as members believe deep down that they are right, that AA is perfect. Most disturbing of all is that they believe they will die if they leave AA, hence the appalling suicide rate. I live in XXXX, Ireland, but I believe AA is the same everywhere. Keep up the good work in exposing this evil cult.

Yours
Anonymous
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The above are unsolicited letters from readers of the Orange Papers that chose to write to Orange in emails and discuss their own experiences and thoughts on AA.

Orange responded to each one. I thank you Orange and salute you for your efforts.

I personally have no doubt in my mind that AA causes some AA members to suicide and that AA is, as a result of the AA religion, responsible for the suicides of some AA members. Not all, but some, and that is irresponsible and evil. This is my belief and it is real.

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Below are letters 3 & 4 written to Orange on the subject of AA & suicides.

I again point out to the reader that these letters are all unsolicited letters sent to Orange as a result of Orange's massive undertaking of writing the Orange Papers. These letters are not written by Orange Papers Forum members.

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Letter # 3

Date: Sat, December XX, XXXX 9:57
From: "Anonymous

Hi Orange,

Hope you don't mind me writing to you so often. Please don't worry at all about writing back. I know you get many, many letters. I am in the early stages of recovery from the AA cult and I find it very helpful to write to you. As I read more of your articles I am reminded of the shear stupidity of AA and the mind boggling arrogance of sponsors.

I only had one sponsor in the 8 years of my AA experience. He lasted the first two years. And he dumped me! Why? Well I can only guess. I discovered that he had DOZENS of sponsees! All of which gave him money and gifts, except me (I think my guess as to why he dumped me is a pretty good one). He was also screwing every female he could get his hands on. It was awful to see young women coming in, lonely, tired, seeking love and warmth and support, used and abused to gratify this excuse for a man; then discarded and dumped, only to go back out drinking, disillusioned.

And what cuts me up inside and makes cry even right now, is that many years ago one of his sponsees told me that there was something wrong with this bastard and AA. That young man, along with at least two others he sponsored committed suicide.

I just dismissed him. If I could say something to him now I'd say, 'I'm sorry. I am so sorry for not believing you.' At his funeral we, AA crackpots, stood around his grave and said the serenity prayer. The only sane person in that circle was in a grave. How lonely must have been his last days. Knowing the truth of AA, a truth he could not deny. He had no friends, only AA 'friends' and therefore his truth was denied by everyone in his world. How lonely must that be?

I only just escaped with my life. I tried to hang myself. Luckily I have good upper body strength and pulled myself back up in the attic, to safety. I also took an overdose and awoke in a hospital pissed off that I was still alive.

I was so close to death and continued to listen to the backward 'logic' of my so-called sponsor. Oh Orange it is good to be free. In the Big Book it talks of everyone being in a disaster and coming together in AA to freedom and safety. Well I was in a disaster. And it was AA. I just feel baffled sometimes. How could I have been taken in for so long! Why did I keep suppressing the alarm bells in my head!

But I am not so hard on myself. I was desperate for love and warmth. I grew up with little or no love, and thought AA could give me the affection I craved.

Also while in AA I covered my body with tattoos. I was denying my pain and numb. I see now that it manifested itself in tattoos, skulls, death, knives. My body is destroyed, but that's OK. My mind isn't. I still meet AA members. (I'm only out of AA four months, but the brainwashed crap in my head has been slowly broken down over the last two years.) I will chat with those on the outskirts. I try not to be too anti-AA to them. I don't wish to hurt them. But I will be honest. As for those members in the inner circle... these I detest. When they say hello I make it a must that I look into their eyes and grin at them: 'Hard look pal, ye nearly had me, not quite. Hey guess what I am still sober. Fuck you!'

Thanks Orange for letting me get this off my chest. You are a good man.

I believe history will say that Agent Orange was the beginning of the end for Steppism.

I will be writing to locally elected councellers (politicians) on many of the matters you have discussed. I'm going to play my part.

Kindest Regards,
Anonymous

Letter #4

Date: Fri, March 17, 2006 12:22
From: "anonymous."
Subject: Curious

The death toll while I was in AA for six years, in Reno, Nevada:

• Total of five unintentional overdoses, that I knew about. Two were heroin, the others were sleeping pills, pain pills, or vallium.

• Total of seven overt suicides of people that attended meetings, my first two years of sobriety. The first four, they intentionally took drugs and alcohol for the purpose of ending their life. One shot himself in the head, the other hung himself, because they continued to get in debt, after sobriety, because of their gambling. The last (I have forgotten his name) put the hose in the exhaust and put it into the back window of his truck. Had no drugs or alcohol from the time he started going to meetings, went to meetings on a regular basis. Unfortunately, he got lonely and depressed. None of the women in AA or NA would have any thing to do with him. These women prefered the hip slick and cool pontificator that was not really sober, but fit in with their image of the ideal man.

• The above does not even count the deaths that we never heard about.

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These blogs on AA & suicide are meant to show a link between the AA cult and some of the suicides of AA members. The intent is not to suggest that AANY, the AA Fellowship or any single AA group or member is legally reponsible for an individual's suicide. Often times suicide is a decision made individually.

One purpose of these continuing blogs is to educate readers of the negative aspects of the teachings of the dangerous cult known as Alcoholics Anonymous.

Research indicates that depression is the #1 cause of suicide. Other research shows most alcohol abusers are depressed people. Membership in AA can increase a person's depression. I leave it to the reader to reach their own conclusion.

These two letters, #'s 3 & 4, discuss some disturbing aspects of AA, other than suicide. In fact, one item discussed is the fact that AA members have on occasion "crashed" funerals to practice their cult chantings and religion. This topic was discussed in two separate blogs yesterday. Of course it's (AA) a cult!

Another aspect in the above letters is that of 13 stepping. This is a practice in AA where an existing AA member will make sexual advances to the newcomer to AA. This newcomer often times is completely unaware of the cult tactics of AA.

In fact, 13 stepping in AA seems to be condoned by the male members of AA. Bragging rights among the male members, a "notch" to put on their sacred Big Book so to speak. One only needs to look to the original 13 stepper, Bill W. And in Bill W's footsteps there are the likes of Clany I (the Pacific Group) and Mike Q (the Midtown Group).

How many women in AA have been the victim of this condoned behavior in AA? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands?

Does membership in the cult known as Alcoholics Anonymous increase the suicide rate among alcohol abusers?

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AA is killing people (by suicide) with its “treatment” program of “spirituality”. AA is simply a hokey religion folks.

NEWSFLASH!!

AA is not a treatment program. AA offers no mental therapy. AA offers no psychiatric therapy. AA offers no emotional therapy.

What does AA offer? ---------supposed miracles performed by god.

Example #1

This unfortunate suicide is an indication of several of the many problems that AA has. This example highlights three problem areas within AA. 1) AA is ineffective as a substance abuse “treatment” program. 2) AA members (Sponsors) should not be giving advice in the areas of medical/psychiatric arenas and 3) the public’s misperception that AA somehow works in treatment of substance abuse.

This victim of AA had been in and out of the hokey religious “treatment” program for decades. Why? Because AA is ineffective in treating substance abusers.

This victim of AA had a sponsor. This sponsor was simply another AA member. This sponsor had no training in medicine or psychiatry. In spite of no training in substance abuse treatment, in spite of medical education, in spite of no psychiatric training, this AA sponsor felt he had “valuable” advice to give, and gave it. The victim had a long history of mental disorder, What the fuck was this AA sponsor thinking?

This victim’s sister relied on the “suggestion” from the AA sponsor. Why? Because through AA’s marketing of their “treatment” program the unsuspecting public has been duped into believing the AA dogma that their way works.

“In a deposition, Deming said the sponsor assured her that Achen would be safe where he was, that he would detox and that she wouldn’t have to worry about him.”
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/preventable-death/content?oid=15280

Letter #5

Date Fri, October 1, 2004 7:00 am
Subject PERMISSION NEEDED
Hi,
I have included a letter below that needs your permission to send, as I not only mention you, but actually have the balls to suggest that 48 Hours CONTACT you. I need your permission, obviously, before I do this. Please reply with your thoughts/criticisms/applause/permission at the earliest convenience.
I want to write to CBS's 48 Hours and request that they do a show exposing AA for what it really is.
After drafting the letter, I realized that I would be giving CBS links to not only our group here at XXXXX, but to many others as well. I decided I should ask permission of the group members (and I will cc to other groups and site owners mentioned for permission) and wait for feedback before proceeding. Please be free with your thoughts: applause and criticism equally welcomed.
Following is the entire body of the email minus my personal contact information, which I would include on sending.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: 48 HOURS Investigate AA and 12 Step — Harm is increasing

Dear CBS, 48 HOURS team:

"DALLAS — Authorities on Saturday were trying to figure out why a man shot and killed two people at a Narcotics Anonymous meeting before staging a four-hour standoff with police." source: http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2203335

A.A., N.A. and many other 12 step groups are much worse than just "ineffective", (though a story on that could easily be done) they are downright damaging. There are 3 United States District Courts who have ruled that A.A. is RELIGIOUS and coerced attendance is unconstitutional. Yet thousands of courts across the country continue with the practice of court-ordered A.A. attendance. This is due to lack of information. The courts, the people of the United States, have been duped into perhaps one of the biggest ruses of our time: that Alcoholics Anonymous is a "helpful" and "non-religious" support group for alcoholics. This is a bald faced lie. The truth is, A.A. is a damaging religious cult, who's effectiveness rate on alcoholism is no greater than no program or support at all, and furthermore has a growing mass of people fleeing it. Why?

I am the "owner" of only one of many online groups for people who are leaving 12 step groups, especially AA, and seeking help in dealing with the damage that they suffered at the hands of such groups. I am an "escapee" myself, after 17 years in the "rewms" of AA. It has taken a year, to reclaim my own thinking and feeling processes and I'm not fully out of the woods yet. I still struggle, more frequently than I would like, with catching the AA brainwashing and have to consciously stop the chant in my head just to focus on rational thinking. I am not as damaged as others I have talked to. One gal in my group had a complete breakdown, delusions and all, with no chemicals of any kind in her body, after 3 or more days of being forced to stay up with no sleep by 12 steppers. I myself, have heard more than a handful of stories of people I KNEW in AA over the last 17 years, who, on the advice of their sponsor, stopped taking medication and as a result committed suicide because their depression was untreated. A.A.er's hardly blink at this: they claim the person simply was not working the steps right. This smacks of the horror stories we sometimes hear of parents belonging to a religious sect that doesn't believe in medication refusing medical treatment for their dying child. However, most of those belong to an identifiable religion. A.A. claims it is not religious and the majority of Americans, A.A. attendees and non- attendees believe it. The reason for this is simply that the facts about A.A. have not been disseminated by the press. I believe no other news show could do as excellent a job of informing America about this danger than 48 HOURS. Simply put, 48 HOURS was created to cover such things.

There are many groups for people fleeing AA and it's sister groups, and many stories like the above.

81% are gone (19% remain) after 1 month;
90% are gone (10% remain) after 3 months,
93% are gone (7% remain) after 6 months,
and 95% are gone (5% remain) at the end of one year.

End of letter

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So not only might the unsuspecting newcomer to AA end up sitting next to a violent criminal or sexual predator, the newcomer most likely will not receive any type of support in the nature of emotional support, medical support or mental support because AA is not a treatment program for substance abusers.

AA is simply a hokey religious cult that offers supposed miracles performed by god to end substance abuse.

Run newcomer, run as fast a you can, from the culty, hokey religion of AA!

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Who is in AA with you?..and..Carefully pick your sponsor.

Another convicted rapist sentenced to AA
http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/351529/Another-convicted-rapis...

Man sentenced for rape committed in 1984
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17634482/ns/health-mental_health/t/man-sente...

Women who pleaded insanity set free
http://news.usti.net/home/news/cn/?/world.law/1/wed/be/Uus-woodry.Rwzx_F...

Girl kept detailed diary of rapes by mother's boyfriend
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/75915/news/world/girl-kept-detailed...

Hershey man chooses probation
http://www.northplattebulletin.com/index.asp?show=news&action=readStory&...

An ex-con enrolled in the state’s intensive supervision program (ISP) who was arrested March 7 on drug and weapons charges
http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index.ssf/2012/03/officer_visited_vineland_...

Police: Man pulled gun at church AA meeting, charged with assault
http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-southeasternpa/Police-Man-pulled-...

Lewiston man set to plead guilty to manslaughter in clock death
http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston-auburn/2012/05/23/lewiston-man-s...

Red flags missed
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20101107_Red_flags_missed.html?id=106

2-year probation sentence for Mark Dickenson in menacing case
http://www.journal-advocate.com/sterling-local_news/ci_20587520/2-year-p...

Wilker sentenced to 8 years
http://www.westbranchtimes.com/article.php?id=8135

Woodbury Man Given 20 Days In Jail For Threatening to Kill Local Restaurant Manager
http://woodbury.patch.com/articles/woodbury-man-given-20-days-in-jail-fo...

Man indicted for stealing from senior he met at support group
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/port-clinton/news/2012/jan/20/man-indict...

'Risky' child rapist released from jail
http://www.mako.org.au/dexter_williams.html

Two dramatic U-turns for John Kalisz, accused in deadly Hernando County shooting rampage
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/two-dramatic-u-turns-for...

Woman Shot in the Head After Fight Spills Out of AA Meeting
http://www.thefix.com/content/woman-shot-head-after-fight-breaks-out-aa-...

'Thelma & Louise' suspect was poster child to Alcoholics Anonymous group
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/thelma-louise-suspect-poster-child...

Rapist Sentenced to 65-Year Term for Assaults on 17 Victims
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-26/news/mn-47_1_serial-rapes

Man sentenced to life for '07 rape, murder
http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/6722292/article-Man-sentenced-t...

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For a list of the letters Orange has received on suicide, see >> http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-letters32.html#suicide_list

You can't blame AA for his suicide. It isn't rational. She blames AA for everything although she also says she loved it up to 2 years ago. It doesn't make sense. Sometimes I read her posts and think she just misses her youth and that she didn't party like a rock star, and spent all that time in AA. But none of it is reasonable or rationale. I don't know how her husband lives with the attitude.

How about laying the "guilt trip" on those that knew Ryan and his sister the most and failed to do anything? For that matter, why not Stinkin' Thinkin' and Stepping on Suicide?

How about crawling back into your hole defender of the prospect hunting grounds of Alcoholics Anonymous. If it is determined which Rehab, Sober Home or clinic you belong to, it will be exposed big time. I hope you have links to the Spiritual slime buckets of the Interchuch Center and AAWS in New York trying to push the pagan tactics of the Oxford Group that was banned in most civilized countries.