If you're using pills, you're not sober or living the AA way of life.

avogadno's picture
Submitted by avogadno on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 07:36

"The AA who takes pills is trading the devil for the witch. If you are using pills, openly or secretly, don't try to convince anyone that your sober or living th AA way of life. It just aint so."

~1948 Works Publishing, Inc

http://www.aaseny.org/archives/works_publishing/sedatives.pdf

Alcoholics Anonymous members pretty much say whatever they want. The open floor, no cross talk, meeting style gives all members a platform to speak their opinions to the group. Often times that it is a personal opinion and not the position of Alcoholics Anonymous is not specified. Such sensitive subjects such as medications and being really "sober" are often preached about in meetings. As to whether or not it represents AA as a whole, it doesn't matter. There is no one in charge of meetings to counter an over-aggressive speaker that gives advice about what meds are OK to take or not. This can (and has) led to problems over the years. People have even died or become quite ill after making a medical decision based upon an AA group's opinion about medical issues.

Sometimes people think that they shouldn't take medications prescribed by a doctor and this can lead to serious health issues. Because this is a highly sensitive and dangerous subject that has caused much controversy over the years, I think that the med issue should be part of each reading of every meeting. It's irresponsible that the readings pertain to repetitious and boring banter that is part of the main text of alcoholics anonymous, and nothing of important issues regarding health and safety. To me it shows that AA is more interested in selling/promoting AA rather than offering respectable and sound advice, and making sure that the opposite doesn't occur in meetings.

Comments

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 09:02

So now Alcoholics Anonymous is a "career?" I thought it was, and is always to remain unprofessional? Just another contradiction in the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.

So El Paso AA does not like people with a "southern" accent?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 20:02

Clara,
please do not to forget to share with the ladies that many of us are clean & sober without belonging to AA for life. I guess we are just the lucky ones whose disease isn't doing push ups in any parking lots we use. That we didn't reject & flee just to go drink or get high. That we rejected & fled due to choosing our mental, emotional & physical well being over a cult. That we chose to have our own minds & control & run our own life's. Please do not forget to share with the ladies that we are free from AA & are not in jail, an institution or dead. Thank you.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 20:50

Patti, it ain't about you! If you want them to know, you can tell them. You sure don't sound happy...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 21:01

How can I tell the ladies @ your meeting about the people you interact with on this forum daily? Not possible. You wrote you tell how others AA experience is different than yours. I asked you to please let them know that members of the forum are clean & sober & not dead in jail or an institution. If you don't want to tell our truths that's up to & on you. Clara, Clara if you want to imply that I'm self absorbed that's okay. If you want to imply that I'm not happy that's okay too. As always none of those things really matter. What does matter is that AA is a dangerous religious cult & has been since it was started by the unemployed, drunk & immoral Wilson. That is what matters & that is what this forum is all about. And because AA is such a creepy & crazy cult people exposed to it wind up @ the Orange Papers & their feelings are validated & confirmed. And that is what really matters. That no one is damaged by AA or its members again or in the future. That's what matters. Not your or my happiness. If your not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. Have a good night, Clara.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 21:13

Patti, your story doesn't really matter to seasoned AAs, who know the program isn't for everyone and who also know that there are others ways to get and stay sober.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 13:14

Well you brought up that you share the stories & people from the forum & their AA experiences with the ladies @ your AA women's meeting. It doesn't matter if you don't tell my story. I just thought you would like to share how wonderful ex members are doing & are clean & sober. That's what its all about right, anyone who accomplishes quitting their addiction. Also I thought you would like to share with your lady friends the wonderful news that people who leave AA do not die, go to jail or an institution. Thought you might be happy to share the great news & let members know that they do not have to fear death, jail or an institution. Again you brought it up.

patti

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:18

I understand what you mean Gigi. There is nothing wrong with us speaking up and out about AA. If it sticks around as a support group option then at least maybe those that are unsuspecting might learn from the past experience of others and be careful. I think it would need a lot of changing before becoming a reputable fellowship/organization so it's demise would suit me better. I hate to think that with each day some people are getting the wrong information and having their recovery chances thwarted.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:44

Avo,
Exactly & that is why AA needs to shut down. Its risks far outweigh its benefits. AA should have been pulled off the market years ago.

patti

rainbow's picture

rainbow

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 03:21

I have to stand with Gigi on her post, I've heard the same exact things at meetings. Here where I live now, and in many meetings in other states. I brought up issues at business meetings, only to have the old-timers say, "We don't do it like that here" or "That's an outside issue." And just because we don't go to meetings anymore does not mean the points she described didn't happen or aren't still happening.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 13:44

I always felt dirty in AA if on meds. It was just kind of implied covertly that maybe you could actually be happy joyous and free if off meds..

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:51

Some people can be, dorak, but that didn't happen overnight for them. I have a friend that took meds for years and then decided that she would try to off of them. She had been diagnosed as bipolar many years before. But she remember how much her behavior mimicked that of raging acoholics, too, and she did a test. Some might consider it risky, but she tapered off her meds and lived without them until today. I know a woman here in EP that would never do such a thing. I think everyone is diferent. Some people will always need medication. And that is fine, too.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:21

I know someone that was suggested to stop taking her medications at the advice of an AA and became suicidal. She's darn lucky that she wised up and put her so called AA sobriety at risk and began taking them again. Your story practically suggests that people give cutting back a whirl instead of suggesting that they should speak to their doctor. Typical.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:52

My story in no way suggests that. That was her story and it worked for her. She was sober for ten years. But as I said in another post, not every person that has been diagnosed as bipolar and is checking into AA... has been misdiagnosed. It is a disease that mimics many. She never has said not to consult with a doctor. She did before she went off of them.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:04

Good thing you don't go anymore.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:07

i realized I could be happy joyous and free on meds.

Brett

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:20

your not sober or living the A.A way of life.

Brett

aasux

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:29

Amen. A heaping helping of the highly addictive cultist aa banter is harmful or fatal if swallowed, or believed.

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:58

Brett,

Lol. that soup thing was hilarious!

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:45

"Corporate AA has admitted that the majority of their new people are forced and coerced to be in attendance."

Text copy or video link, please, and thank you.

#4, response to DeConstructor's post 6/21/12, 14:40.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:40

expectations of 'privacy' in the rooms of AA.

Corporate AA has admitted that the majority of their new people are forced and coerced to be in attendance. In my particular case, as is the case with many other people, I was commanded to get a sponsor so the person supervising my 'recovery' (a private contracted EAP dude who was also an AA evangelist) could be updated on my conversion to the AA faith.

This begs the question, particularly when people are sentenced to AA by the power of the court, are we as society sentencing people to SECRET sentences? We have case after case of attrocities that have been committed such as murder, assault, rape, swindles, child molestations and arson off the top of my head.

The AA faith uses the 'suggestion' of anonymity for their convenience.

I have stated before and will state it again. The American justice system should not be 'secretly' sentencing people to anything. I see no difference between this and persons detained in Guantanamo without charges and subjected to torture. As far as 'expectations' I have the expectation that the US justice system should have transparency and not subject people to dangerous situations- particularly without a warning from the court- that there are many dangerous predators hiding and hunting in the rooms, netwworking with other predators, and fully enjoying a cloak of anonymity.

Predatory and dangerous behavior- such as playing doctor- should and will become public information regardless of any 'suggestions' the AA faith may have.

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 16:13

DeConstructor,
Again agreed. AA & NA are going to get busted. Its either going to be an major media expose or a class action lawsuit. One victim is going to have a case that case is going to turn into a class action. Victims ashamed or helpless to say anything in the past will find the courage to come forward. It will be one victim after another & for some their survivors. In documentary "Deliver Us From Evil", one little girl didn't tell her parents about a priest raping her because she was afraid her father would kill him. So many abuse victims are ashamed & embarrassed including addicts conned by AA & NA members its humiliating. How many people have been harmed by AA unqualified medical advise from know it all brain washed cult members. It really takes courage to tell the truth about abuse. I wonder how many former members have contacted AA authorities & been ignored. I'd bet money that there have been many victims who have been ignored. Its a matter of time & AA can't weather big lawsuits the way the Catholic Church could. Its safe to surmise people have already been recording in meetings & just have not figured out who turn it over to. With today's technology & all the kids forced into AA & NA you know someone has been recording whether its legal or not. A recording can be sent to law enforcement anonymously.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:41

""Corporate AA has admitted that the majority of their new people are forced and coerced to be in attendance."

Text copy or video link, please, and thank you.

#3

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:41

"Corporate AA has admitted that the majority of their new people are forced and coerced to be in attendance."

Text copy or video link, please, and thank you.

#2

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:53

"Corporate AA has admitted that the majority of their new people are forced and coerced to be in attendance."

Text copy or video link, please, and thank you.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 15:39

This is like the "National Inquirer" for people like Deconstruct. He is not interested in truth, nope, he is after humiliation.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 10:40

That would make DeConstructor a liar, would it not?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 10:56

I would say he is until he can prove otherwise.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 14:54

Secret sentence? What do you mean by that? Even if you were mandated to AA, it wouldn't be a secret because it would be part of your public record.

There is a lot of difference between you and a terrorist, DeCon.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

disclosure

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 17:18

I used to sit around for days in pain with headaches while in AA, now I just take Codeine or something and rest. Miraculously the headache will be gone in one day instead of three or four. I need about 3 to 6 pills a year depending on circumstances. It sure beats the hell out of not taking pills to ward of a relapse from an imaginary disease. Sometimes if I really hurt I’ll drink a non-alcoholic beer with the pill and watch TV. I don’t care if I have AA clean time or not. All I care about is that I have a sober frame of mind.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 10:53

I have an AA friend who takes mushrooms, Psilocybin for cluster headaches. They just had a special on TV about it. Just like the person in the tv special, this good friend of mine grows his own. He uses the mushrooms about 4-5 times a year. It works.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:08

If only AA ers would tell new victims that its okay to take medicine cause God created Doctors & scientists to research & develop new medicines & this has been beneficial to the quality of life for multitudes. If only AA ers understood that they have an imaginary disease & they won't relapse if they take medicine for a real disease or condition. Yes, its gotta go.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:21

I don't know AAs that tell newcomers anything differently. It is all over our liturature about Bil's need to additional support through his psch doctor, and that we are to avail ourselves to other help as needed.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 19:22

You might not know AAs that tell newcomers or any other members not to take their medicine. That is okay. It doesn't matter if you have not witnessed this dangerous, unqualified & immoral behavior. A lot of other people current members, ex members & people forced to attend have witnessed it again & again. There are plenty of witnesses.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:24

"If only AA ers would tell new victims that its okay to take medicine cause God created Doctors & scientists to research & develop new medicines & this has been beneficial to the quality of life for multitudes."

Why wouldn't they just remove themselves from the whole question of medications? Why would anyone need to be told the kind of crap you espouse, patti? You certainly do a sweep when you try to take somebody down. Your point, however, has been swallowed by your own cynicism and is, therefore, meaningless.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:08

Beckett,
LOL

patti

disclosure

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:14

I just got the greatest text message from an AA/OP friend!

I told him about my time away from meetings and here is what he said;

Congrats! Just hang in there and keep not coming back!

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:28

Got a headache or (brain) cramps? LOL!

Heads up!

Pages