If AA were to introduce a new, totally irrelevant to drinking, word or statement into its cult speak which would you prefer:-

NoAAUK's picture
Submitted by NoAAUK on Mon, 06/18/2012 - 00:42
Glockenspiel (a Percussion instrument)
10% (1 vote)
Bobby Ewing (Now Dallas is back on TV)
0% (0 votes)
“I fancy a tin of Spam!"
60% (6 votes)
Some other totally irrelevant to drinking Alcohol , Word, Words or statement, please specify in comments
30% (3 votes)
Total votes: 10

Comments

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 01:36

Please don't spend too much time trying to think of, totally irrelevant to drinking alcohol, words or statements AA could adopt to update its cult speech. After 77 years of the same, word for word BS, AA will NOT adopt any new cult speak, no matter how totally irrelevant or harmful to newcomers it could be.

This is really just a theoretical exercise to see what other BS, AA could possibly include in its cult speak. But with 77 years of complete failure to solve the Alcohol abuse/addiction problem, AA quite righty, believes it has already achieved total perfection in BS, in the field of substance misuse

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 04:08

I will say that AA/12 step ThinkSpeak© has spawned many, many useless words and statements and trains of thoughts, often affectionately referred to as wilsonisms, or billshit.

I will say that the MOST IRRELEVANT item that AA has EVER introduced into their “treatment” program, an item that has been widely adopted by “treatment professionals” worldwide despite the item's proven ineffectiveness, is ……………………….the Big Book.

Spam sucks.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 12:36

"I will say that AA/12 step ThinkSpeak© has spawned many, many useless words and statements and trains of thoughts, often affectionately referred to as wilsonisms, or billshit."

AA does not own a copyright on the term "ThinkSpeak". It appears in free, wide usage. For your convenience, courtesy Pennywise:

Pennywise
Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:01

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ34.pdf

Wouldn't it better serve your skewed opinion to accuse AA of NoThinkSpeak? Where is your imagination?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 04:37

Kind of reminds me of 42 year old Donna Louise Hamby of Wartburg Tennessee and her 15 DUI convictions! Obviously she is taking what she wants and leaving the rest from the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jun/17/donna-hamby-morgan-county-woman...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Anthro

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 05:13

there are over 200 different groups using the 12 steps now for every problem under the sun....

someone needs to stop this maddness!!

Anthro

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 17:21

It's always someone else who has to do the heavy lifting. What are you doing to "put a stop this madness", Anthro?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Anthro

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 05:29

" The new science of mad-doctoring has dared to invade the mystery of genius. If it does not stop with Kleist and Lenau, I will stand watch and personally consign these manufacturers of madness - whose cry, "Anything to treat?" is now heard all over the land - into oblivion. Their teaching enlarges irresponsibility and thus diminishes the personality. So long as their business remains private practice, let those who consult them beware. But if they reach out for others, let us make it our business to keep Kleist and Lenau from their grasp"

Karl Kraus, Die Fackel, 300, March 1910, p. 27
Szasz, Thomas S. "Karl Kraus and the Soul-Doctors, A Pioneer Critic and His Criticism of Psychiatry and Pyschoanalysis, p. 111-112

Anthro

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 11:31

refrigerator magnet could be used as a term describing holding onto things from the past. You are acting like such a refrigerator magnet when you talk about your family.

patti

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 18:29

love it!

patti

Anthro

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 12:36

spoken like someone with a Phd

Anthro

Anthro

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 12:37

I'm winning an argument with my lover....I just told him to stop acting like a refrigerator magnet

Anthro

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 16:05

so Anthro should i license that phrase, urban dictionary ? sell it to AA to use of AL anon brochure?

Anthro

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 17:12

And tell everyone to stop conducting themselves like refrigerator magnets. And sell whatever new, improved, novel ideas you can to AA....get back some of those millions of well intentioned bucks that went into years of baskets...

I do miss the potlucks.

Anthro

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 17:23

Is it yours to license? Better consult with Pennywise. He's got the latest dope on that stuff.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 18:01

"Is it yours to license? Better consult with Pennywise. He's got the latest dope on that stuff."

Lol:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ34.pdf

Copyright law does not protect names, titles, or short phrases or expressions. Even if a name, title, or short phrase is novel or distinctive or lends itself to a play on words, it cannot be protected by copyright. The Copyright Office cannot register claims to exclusive rights in brief combinations of words such as:
• Names of products or services
• Names of businesses, organizations, or groups (including the names of performing groups)
• Pseudonyms of individuals (including pen or stage names)
• Titles of works
• Catchwords, catchphrases, mottoes, slogans, or short advertising expressions
• Listings of ingredients, as in recipes, labels, or formulas. When a recipe or formula is accompanied by an explanation or directions, the text directions may be copyrightable, but the recipe or formula itself remains uncopyrightable

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 14:44

thanks pennywise I guess it's just public domain issue. I think I would like to copyright , being tossed around liked a twisted tornado of blood pumping human carnage, that would be for next al-anon pamphlet, I have to clear that with headquarters .

SandyB's picture

SandyB

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 15:57

After 15 years of research my review of 12 step programs was narrowed down to one word: No

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 17:24

Nice and tidy, and it doesn't get all over everybody else.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 17:34

How about "ass doctor?"

This would refer to one's sponsor who supposedly helps you "save your ass" by chanting Bill Wilson, and pays homage to Dr. Bob, who was, in fact, a real ass doctor (proctologist).

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Anthro

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 17:45

So AA is full of criminals....the founders were criminals

Anthro

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 12:41

"an ass doctor that preformed surgery in a black out"

Are you sure it wasn't just a brown out?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 20:49

Fukengrüven or Farfromdrunken or Farfrompuken.

flannigan

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 12:34

What is the purpose of AA?

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 12:40

That depends on who you ask. 2 million individuals, maybe 1.5 million answers. Maybe 1 million answers. What demographic do you have in mind? People who hate AA? Current AA members? People who don't have any good or bad association with AA and have never rubbed elbows with a drunk? AlAnon members? Whiskey distributors? Zero in.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

flannigan

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 16:26

Zeroing in- What do you think the purpose of AA is?

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 22:49

Zooming out - What does AA think it's (primary) purpose is?

Anthro

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 09:51

the altruistic claim of being there just to "help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety" is the biggest lie in the universe. Ken Ragge says its there to "EXPRESS GROUP DOCTRINE AND STOP THOUGHT"

just think about that...."express group doctrine and stop thought" ....wow!! that's deep.

Anthro

Anthro

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 09:53

have you stopped thinking yet today? if you stated "no", you are not working the 12 stomp program today

Anthro

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 10:22

"Ken Ragge says its there to "EXPRESS GROUP DOCTRINE AND STOP THOUGHT""

It doesn't appear to be AA, but something seems to have stopped AnthroThought, because you have to quote someone else to comment here. Where are your own ideas?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 02:11

"Where are your own ideas?"

Thats rich coming from a stepper. More stepper contradiction.

BB 4th Ed Page page 58 says

that some of us us had tried to hold onto OUR old ideas but the result was nil until we let go absolutley

So do you have one set of cult ideas for use in your BS stepper cult meetings and a contradictory set of ideas when you are trying to defend your stepper cult BS to sane people?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 05:03

Done.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 22:56

More to the point, my aim here is not to take the bait. Do you have a question you'd like to ask out of interest or is it just amusement you're after?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Brett

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 01:13

someone who thinks they're alcoholic & powerless, yet indulges in fortified soup

Brett

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 10:39

Nice, to see you again Brett. Gosh, if not for me, what would you ever post about on OPF?

It's heartwarming to be such a big part of your life.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Brett

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 01:15

The fellowships lowest form of life, won't sign cards.

Brett

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 10:41

Gosh, did someone refuse to sign your card, dear?

Each group does it differently, and people quickly learn where they can get over and where they can't. I'd just as soon you be a bandit and sign your own card than to ask someone to lie for you. If you don't want to go along with a group's conscience, then find a group that will do it your way.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 15:28

Clara, let me ask you a hypothetical question:

Let's say I was late to a meeting in El Paso that you were chairing and you refused to sign my card. Let's then say that I called a group conscious to remove you as chairperson on the ground that you brag about ordering fortified wine to pour in your soup, which you do in front of fellow AAs. I argue that this sets a bad example for the newcomer, voids your sobriety time so that you don't have the required "time" to sit as chairperson, and runs counter to "The Doctor's Opinion" that alcoholics cannot safely use alcohol in any form at all. What do you think would happen, and how would you defend yourself?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 16:15

First, it would depend on what the group conscience was to begin with... Understand that I never said that I DON'T sign cards as a general rule. In EP, if you weren't there to put your slip in the basket, it wouldn't matter who was chairing. You have a responsibility to participate. Or go to another meeting...

As for my fitness to chair, it isn't going to hep you out right then because you cannot call a group conscience on the spot. Since it has two years ago since I had crab soup with a condiment splash of sherry, I meet the definition of sober by anyone's standard. Some groups don't even have a minimum, they are so hard up to have anyone chair. That is the case in the group in EL. The guy that was chairing that night had a week in... from a relapse.

There are plenty of people that do not believe each and everything presented in the BB, including the DR. Op. I doubt that anyone feels that using vinegar is a problem, yet I have seen that argued when a man used malt with his fish and chips.

I don't think you'd win, Penny, but I appreciate the exercise.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 16:45

Ahh, but the only way I see you keeping the chair in that situation is to be contrite. If you stood your ground like you do here and justified the consumption, you'd be sealing your coffin for sure. You talk about honesty here, but how are you being honest when your ability to refuse to sign court cards depends on the group not knowing that you proudly defend your alcohol ingestion?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 17:18

Nothing I say here is different

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 19:39

Two years since you've had sherry in your crab soup? Oh, you poor dear. But I thought you told us that you wouldn't eat where you had to use paper napkins. What's changed? Or is that just what you would tell the AA group? What about the red wine vinegar in your salad? How long has it been? Did you know that you could actually do both? Have red wine vinegar on your salad and use paper napkins? Like at a salad bar or a buffet, for instance.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 20:29

@Causy

studies and his smart ass mouth. Do us a favor worry about your perfect sobriety clause, you live by. Stop judging others who enjoy their sobreity as they wish. This is what AA taught us. So sorry your cynicism took you out so early into your stay with AA.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 20:33

You are hilarious...........

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 02:16

"Stop judging others who enjoy their sobreity as they wish. This is what AA taught us"

except that you have to go to stepper meeitngs for life or its jails institutions or death......and do the 12 steps and recruit others to the cult, remember your sobriety can't be kept unless you give it away (????)

Do you people ever NOT contradict yourselves? LOL

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 08:30

That is your idea of AA. Not mine.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

patti

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 05:39

Trisha,
why do you judge us for enjoying our sobriety without the cult of AA? Why do you judge us for hating AA & all its harmful, damaging, humiliating & unqualified psycho babble & instructions? How can anyone be pro for a mind control group started by an unemployed drunk & con man Wilson? What about all the people who have been harmed by AA? What about all the kids & spouses who have been diagnosed by unqualified Wilson & steppers as "sick" & "diseased", due to being related or married to an addict? How can anyone not think that is not damaging & shouldn't be happening, not ever. No drunk or addict not Wilson or anyone else should be diagnosing anyone, no qualifications whatsoever. And its demeaning & belittling & wrong.

patti

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 06/21/2012 - 09:21

who wrote the same nonsense before you. Jr, causeandeffect, ben and others. You write about this abundance of harm AA is causeing, yet you provide nothing to support your allegations.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 21:36

I don't, Cause, but only because I haven't been places recently where I would trust too much of the seafood. The conversation is about crab soup. As for wine vinegar dressing, I have some in my fridge. I also never said I solely eat in cloth napkin places, but that I wasn't told that I was limited to going to places where they give you paper crowns along with your meal.

Now, remember Anti's list of bullying behaviors. You qualify on a number of them... 1, 2, 5, 6, 12.

1.Misinformation: including contextually inaccurate reporting, lying, lying by omission, repeating of “rumours”
2.Magnify: Finds the smallest error or takes the most negative spin and magnifies it to become the whole “story”, damaging the victim’s reputation
3.Passive Aggression: appearing not to be aggressive but using passive means to be antagonistic and hostile, including the things in this list
4.Audience: Builds an entourage of enablers ie audience to support, laugh with, incite
5.Persistence: Constant digs rather than one -off battles, predictability
6.Sarcasm: Using humor to humiliate and belittle
7.Sneaky: Behind the back politicking to ensure a supportive audience when bullying more openly, less risk of exposure
8.Divide and Conquer: you are with me or with her. The SUPPORTERS of a bullying victim are made fearful of openly supporting her or stopping the bullying. The victim is made to feel alone.
9.Aides and Abets: encourages Anonymous to attack, and hides/supports their identity, and lack of “responsibility”
10.Power Corrupts. Uses a position of power to attack those who threaten that power. Weak people are not in a position to bully. Those with some power who feel threatened are more likely to bully.
11.Incite: Ability to incite others to continue or extend the bullying publicly, supporting those that follow the cyberbully’s lead, encouraging more bystanders to join against the victim
12.Stalking: Monitoring, eavesdropping, waiting for a situation to exploit. May include attempting to gain access to personal information etc.
13.Elicit: antagonize to elicit a response, attempt to create an emotional storm, then spotlight “bad behaviour” on the part of the target

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 23:02

I seem to have touched a nerve. I find it quite humorous that you’ve now changed your story and only in relation to Pennywise’s hypothetical question. After all the ribbing you’ve taken on the subject, you’re now saying you’ve not had crab soup with sherry in two years, but you’ve never mentioned that before. I know, I know, now you are going to claim that you have indeed mentioned it before, and to read your previous posts, knowing full well that I’m not going to go back and look for something that’s not there.

As for bullying behavior, all I did was ask a few questions and made very few statements. You claim I’m guilty of

“1.Misinformation: including contextually inaccurate reporting, lying, lying by omission, repeating of “rumours””

What misinformation did I give? All I did was repeat what you’ve said: that you didn’t want to eat in places that had paper napkins. You’ve said it several times and equated not having sherry in your crab soup with eating in places with paper napkins numerous times. I also said you could have red wine vinegar at a salad bar that has paper napkins, and that’s not a lie, that’s a fact. So, no misinformation, lying or repeating rumors.

“2.Magnify: Finds the smallest error or takes the most negative spin and magnifies it to become the whole “story”, damaging the victim’s reputation”

Actually the spin here is Pennywise’s, but I did notice an inconsistency in your story and pointed it out. If anybody has damaged your reputation, it’s you. Repeatedly.

“5.Persistence: Constant digs rather than one -off battles, predictability”

This whole “sherry in the crab soup” issue isn’t one that I’m being persistent about. In fact, I’ve never been the one to bring it up. I haven’t even commented on it that much.

“6.Sarcasm: Using humor to humiliate and belittle”

Guilty as charged.

“12.Stalking: Monitoring, eavesdropping, waiting for a situation to exploit. May include attempting to gain access to personal information etc.”

I’m afraid you’ll have to provide some evidence that I’m stalking you in any way. I’m just here on a forum reading your posts. If you don't want others to comment on them, then don't post. You are the one who has provided the personal information of your eating habits including alcoholic ingredients, not me.

And you're the first person on this forum to stalk somebody...well, aside from danny who has been stalking members even before this forum existed.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 06/20/2012 - 23:38

C&E, you should make a new list of behaviors of people who can't debate worth a good goddamn.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

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