Step 7 Removal of Shortcomings

NoAAUK's picture
Submitted by NoAAUK on Fri, 06/08/2012 - 05:49

I hope it is safe to assume that these shortcomings are the famous 'character defects' so often referred to in stepper meetings?

The big question for me is 'does God remove these shortcomings if humbly asked?’ And if he does, then why is there a need to do Step 10. Why is there a need for continued personal inventory, if God has already removed our shortcomings in Step 7?

This raises a number of questions:-

1) Does step 7 actually work?

2) Does God only remove our shortcomings temporarily and if so for how long.....do they return at midnight like Cinderella at the Ball (come to think of it steppism is a fairy story) or can you have them removed for longer periods and if so, what’s the maximum time God will remove a shortcoming for?

3) Or do steppers constantly develop new shortcomings as a result of doing the 12 steps and going to meetings, and have to constantly take inventory and admit they are wrong? Steppism is therefore ANTIspiritual (not religious) and actually creates shortcomings and therefore spiritual diseases

4) Or do steppers hang on to shortcomings and it is these that have to acknowledged in Step 10 Or perhaps a combination of hung onto shortcomings and new shortcomings?

5) Can you partially hang on to a shortcoming so you only have half a shortcoming to acknowledge and admit you are wrong in step 10?

6) Can/will God remove a shortcoming that you are hanging on to?

7) Why do steppers humbly ask God to REMOVE their shortcomings in step 7 but only PROMTLY ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG when they find new or hung onto shortcomings in step 10?

8) Is Step 10 really a way to keep hung onto shortcomings, by just promptly admitting you are wrong, but not humbly asking God to remove them and therefore does Step 10 actually jeopardise a steppers sobriety?

9) Why not skip step 6 and go directly to step 7, a bit like playing snakes and ladders?

Can any of our resident stepper Gurus enlighten me as I want to understand the 'message'

Comments

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:33

I'm not a mental health counselor. I'd explain the law to him and tell him he might want to look into the idea of not beating his wife. If he finds it helpful to think in terms of powerlessness that's up to him.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:22

The domestic violence is not the primary problem today. He has managed to keep his shit under control for at least a couple of years. The pressing problem is that today, right now, he is detoxing at home. His parents both died from booze - mother fell and hit her head and died, brother fell and died, now this man is so shaky he can't negotiate a flight of stairs. We are afraid he will fall, have a seizure (family medical trait) and that will be that. So what would you recommend? No insurance, no computer, little family concern on his end.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:33

Friend, I'm not trying to dodge, but I really don't know what I'd recommend. Again, I'm not a therapist. I assume he is going to do what he wants to do and maybe that might kill him if he is as hardcore as you describe. Has he expressed any interest in quitting? Has he quit for any length of time in the past? Without knowing the man, there is a lot left to speculation. I admire your helping him.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

gigi

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:42

Honestly Becket, I doubt that I could convince anyone of anything in terms of this. It's a personal thing. Everyone's wake up call is different. But, no, I certainly wouldn't want to reinforce that he's powerless and needs another stint in rehab. Detox sure. It's up to him, and if he doesn't know that, he won't be convinced otherwise. Another reason I decided to get the hell out of AA was because I am very sure that I have no business counseling anyone.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:37

If it's his fourth or fifth treatment he's heard plenty of the powerless doctrine, and it certainly hasn't helped. Maybe he needs to hear that he's not powerless. And yes, he sounds as bad off as I was. I could barely walk, had had a seizure, sometimes would crawl to avoid falling, there at the end. RR's crash course was helpful to me in early sobriety.

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causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:32

Yes, there is a big distinction between feeling powerless and being powerless. I wouldn't have a problem with the first step if it said something like, "We admitted that we felt powerless over alcohol..." then go on to state that we really weren't.

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Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:34

That is a pretty good revision, C&E. Could be helpful.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:00

Can AA work for you if you believe it can?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:07

Well, the Steps can't work in the way Wilson said they do if there is no God willing to perform supernatural miracles. Since I don't believe in supernatural miracles, I don't think the Steps can work in the way outlined in the Big Book. That said, I do believe AA can help some people.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:28

Do you mean, "Since I don't believe in supernatural miracles, I don't think the Steps can work for me in the way outlined in the Big Book"?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:43

No. I don't believe the existence (or lack thereof) of supernatural entities is relative or subjective. As Bill Wilson said, "God either is, or He isn't." I believe He isn't. And because I don't believe the existence of supernatural entities is relative or subjective, I don't think God exits for you, me, or anyone else. If there is no God, the Steps can't work for anyone because the Steps entail a divine entity performing supernatural miracles.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:56

Fair enough.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 16:55

I've known any number of sex abuse victims in the rooms and there has only been support for them. The only one times have I seen someone be reminded that the business she was in was fraught with exploitation and abuse are strippers and hookers. There are inherent dangers in those professions. While someone may not blame them (as even a stripper of hooker should be able to say no), they are in businesses with crazy people with mixed up morals and values. If you want that stuff to stop happening, a start would be to get out of the business.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 17:04

I've seen women in AA who were molested as children make amends to their abusers. I guess as long as they do, yes, they get support.

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Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 17:04

Seconded. I've heard of the same thing. I have not seen it literally speaking, but I've listened to shares about it.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:05

What's so bizarre is that we are all from completely different areas of the world, and have all seen the same things. So we know it's not just a local idiosyncrasy. But they claim they have never even heard of such a thing happening.

Of course the steps support such beliefs. Of course they do.

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Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:15

Exactly. If I had less scruples, I would love to video or even audio record some meetings and play the recording here. Although I think that would be a rather scumbag move (so I won't do it), it would help get the point across to readers who might be unfamiliar with what goes on.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:21

So true c&e, talk about a clincher. I knew things in my area was messed up but I wasn't thinking about the big picture at that time. It was a surprise that in terms of controlling sponsors and cultish meetings I found the same thing when I changed from the NA fellowship to AA. I really thought that I might find some saner people in AA. That wasn't the case. The only thing better about AA that I noticed was that 13 stepping was less prominent. Not that it didn't exist, I saw that it did and it was discussed as well. I think the reason for this was that there was a younger crowd attending NA.

When I went on the internet for information I was searching for others that also had problems with the program. I was not expecting to find a vast amount of people that felt the same way I did. It's significant to me that nobody tracked me down and tried to convince me that AA was weird/culty. What a shock it was to find so many similarities in groups around the world (as you noted).

It's such a scam, I feel my anger bubbling over again today.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

gigi

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:21

The thing is, some of the don't admit to what's happening even when it's right under their nose.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:02

You are currently attending meetings, yes, causeandeffect? Can you understand or even accept the possibility that AA members did not blatantly and brazenly behave the way you contend 20, 30, 40 years ago? Can you just try to consider that a factor in your incredulity? So what if Bill Wilson had affairs?! My ex-husband was unfaithful. He was right under my roof, in real time, and I forgave him. Bill Wilson's been dead over 40 years and his affairs did nothing to personally impact you and you cannot blow it off? I don't get you. When you see his face do you see your father's face? Do you read your ex-boyfriend's words in "To Wives"? Are you transferring anger? What's the deal? I'm not trying to mock you, I'm trying to understand you. You will not accept anyone else's view of AA and its significance in 2012 unless they toe the CauseLine. Why is that? Is it possible for you to dispense with all that rage to just say what's on your mind so I can understand you?

Why the fuck do you go? Who are you doing this favor for at your own expense?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:26

“You are currently attending meetings, yes, causeandeffect?”

No. I don’t know what made you think that, but I haven’t attended a meeting in nearly a year and a half.
“Can you understand or even accept the possibility that AA members did not blatantly and brazenly behave the way you contend 20, 30, 40 years ago?”

AA members get their program from the literature and not even so much as a poorly placed comma has changed since the day those books were written. It’s that literature which is so toxic and it’s the literature that the program comes from. So no, I don’t believe it was ever any different and the old timers have said things to make me believe it used to be even worse. I do, however, think for some it’s a better situation than drinking and just appears like a pretty good deal. But eventually some grow out of it and leave. If they continue to get healthier, it would be a shock to go back and see what it was really like. They might believe AA had changed, but really it was the individual who had changed.

“Can you just try to consider that a factor in your incredulity?”

Again, I believe that the program remains the same, it’s just people who outgrow it and leave. Consider someone who comes from a very abusive background. They may leave and find lesser abusive relationship to be in. It might look just great to them and they might think their new situation to be non-abusive.

“So what if Bill Wilson had affairs?! My ex-husband was unfaithful. He was right under my roof, in real time, and I forgave him.”

This isn’t about just anybody though. This is about someone who presented himself as a prophet, a spiritual leader. One who presumed himself qualified to tell others how to live their lives and how to worship their gawds. The simple fact is that his steps never made him any better of a person. It proves his philosophy to be false. Spiritual people don’t behave like bill wilson, and I’m not going to take any kind of spiritual direction from a louse like him. I think there’s not much lower than using the name of God to deceive and manipulate people. Glad you were able to forgive your husband though. I forgave mine too, but AA offered no assistance with that.

“Bill Wilson's been dead over 40 years and his affairs did nothing to personally impact you and you cannot blow it off? I don't get you.”

Bill wilson’s legacy is an ineffective superstitious faith healing cult that does nothing to help people quit drinking. His affairs and whatnot all just go to prove the teachings are false.
“When you see his face do you see your father's face?”

Not at all. My father looked much more like Dr. bob. : )

“Do you read your ex-boyfriend's words in "To Wives"?”

Not at all. I read bill’s words in “To Wives.” Why should I read anybody else’s words in it? Oh wait. One might make the mistake of thinking they were a woman’s words, like maybe Lois. It’s just another one of Wilson’s deceptions. Writing as if he was a wife.

“Are you transferring anger? What's the deal?”

Not at all. I’m angry with wilson because I’m angry with wilson. I’m angry with wilson because he was a liar, cheat and thief AFTER his supposed spiritual awakening and created an ineffective quit drinking program only for self-aggrandizement. It was all about power to him.

“I'm not trying to mock you, I'm trying to understand you.”

Thank you for not trying to mock me.

“You will not accept anyone else's view of AA and its significance in 2012 unless they toe the CauseLine. Why is that?”

There is no CauseLine. I don’t spend every damn day on any AA sites trying to force others to see things my way. I just want to be among like minded people and get the word out that AA is a crazy (and dangerous) religious cult that has no efficacy in helping people quit drinking.

“Is it possible for you to dispense with all that rage to just say what's on your mind so I can understand you?”

I don’t know what it is that you can’t understand. I don’t understand how anybody can spend so much time here and still not comprehend our objections.

“Why the fuck do you go? Who are you doing this favor for at your own expense?”

Again, I don’t go anymore.

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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:52

I do agree with your remarks about To The Wives. We didn't include that chapter in our meetings.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:52

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that you attend meetings with a significant other. Apologies if that is not the case.

My impression is that today's AA member gets his "program" from other AA members, in between coffee runs and cigarette breaks and walk-outs on newcomers and their same old-same old. I'm not convinced that today's average meeting-attending AA member has ever read all the way through the Big Book or has even bothered to research any secular philosophies, theories, mythologies or anything else that would help him. The idea that I have been given is that it's just a bad thing even on its surface, as well as bad on every surface that comes near it.

I do not believe it is required of the AA member to continue to go to meeting after meeting after meeting until he draws his last breath. Leaving is reasonable and each person must decide when and where that reasonable window is to be found.

Does it matter if Bill Wilson never fully recovered, and that he fell into traps of sex and money? It has not necessarily led to 75 years' worth of members following him down that path. Your disappointment (probably a weak word for your position) is understandable, but this is now decades and decades later. The man is dead. Yet people continue to want to dig him up and put him on display to spit on him and throw shit at him. Why? Why not strike out on your own without the baggage? You're clearly not happy. Do you want to be happy or do you want to be a martyr?

You are among like minded people on the OPF, but that does not carry your message to the outside. It is a cushion, a neighborhood bar without the booze, a frat house. Tell me what you do on the outside to inform people of your own ideas about AA. And realize that they are ideas and impressions and disappointments. The fact that they comprise your truth does not make your truth everyone's truth.

Almost every post I read by you is colored with anger. I do understand it a little better now, but I also know an aneurism when I see one. I don't mean you any harm, even though we are polar opposites on the question of AA. As a sober woman of some years I am hoping you can find some peace in the gaps. We will never agree about Bill Wilson. I think he did a good thing and perhaps a lot of bad things. He was human. Some things he did I would never find forgivable if I were on the receiving end of them. But it has no bearing on my life now. If it's all a choice, I hope you make the choice to be happy and healthy and to find a way to share your information without rancor. Lots and lots of people out there need help. They can't hear rage but they can hear suggestions. Even Bill Wilson knew that.

Best of luck.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:04

"I've seen women in AA who were molested as children make amends to their abusers."

That is totally fucked.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:53

I wouldn't say that I know women that made "amends" to their abusers, but I do know some that found the courage through AA to confront their abusers.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:38

That is the difference between "Steppism" and quietly and methodically working the steps to the best of one's honest ability. As I said before, no one who has a deep, practical understanding of the true purpose and method behind the steps would ever blame the victim of rape or sexual assault. It is absolutely contrary to the steps. An AA member is supposed to take his/her own inventory, not the inventory of anyone else. If someone in AA is taking another person's inventory, they're "doin' it wrong".

I don't believe anyone is making up these wild diversions from the program of AA. It's easy to see how generations of misapplied extrapolations can threaten and even destroy the original method of using the steps in striving for sobriety. I don't even recognize what you guys write about AA - it is absolutely ludicrous to think of attending meetings as you describe them. It's a spiral-down into the abyss where no one benefits. But I do believe, with dismay, that it does happen.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 16:33

Absolutely contrary to the steps? What part? You don't recognize what we write about AA? Do you recognize this?

"Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt."

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becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:47

For one AA to take the inventory of another AA (and I don't mean assisting another's fourth and fifth steps, but rather judging another and telling him how fucked up he is) is absolutely contrary to the steps, yes.

Frankly, causeandeffect, many of the things you write about when you discuss AA I do not recognize, no. And if you are going to claim that you personally have never made a decision based on what you wanted, what you needed, what you thought you needed, what you hoped for, and later found that said decision was not really in your best interests, then you must be an Android or a Tribble because you are not living a human life.

Why did you embolden "invariably"? What is the significance of that?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:53

She emboldened it because it means that EVERY TIME we are hurt, we put ourselves in that position. In other words, the "invariably" precludes interpreting the passage to mean that only sometimes, depending on the facts, did we have a part in it. This means that the molestation victim who is hurt put herself in the position to be hurt.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:58

"Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invariably

Definition of INVARIABLY
: on every occasion : always

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:17

I view it in this light: "Eventually, or predictably [invariably] we found we put ourselves in a position to be hurt". It was a poor choice of words on B. Wilson's part; I think it's supposed to mean that each of us finds that we put ourselves in harms way at one time or another, not that we put ourselves in harms way every time we make a decision or leave the house or speak to another person. To a man we find that we have, under the influence, occasionally set ourselves up. The word "invariably" should not have been used in that way, in my opinion. As a student of the English language, I might say that maybe it was a colloquial use of the word that is no longer preferred, I don't know. But such minutiae causes people to lose sight of their own powers of interpretation. I don't mean people should interpret the Big Book as license to go screw their daughters or shoot up at the coffee machine or rape the newcomers one by one. Where is the independent thinking here? Almost everyone here who gripes about AAs being lemmings are angry because they were once lemmings, they got duped, they did not use their own powers of observation. And yes, many are too sick to form an accurate and usable impression of the program. This is where change needs to occur, as far as I'm concerned. These are life decisions to be made regarding quitting and recovering. They should not be required of people who are too weak or sick or disenfranchised to think for themselves. So come on in here, JR Harris, and start spouting about vulnerabilities and cults.

Maybe I should write the new and improved Big Book, so it is usable and clear.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

gigi

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:28

Well, I'll tell you what Becket: I like your interpretation but, unfortunately, that was not the interpretation I was taught. I'm not going to go through all of the ridiculous shit that I was asked to find my part in or accept responsibility for as that would take all night. I'll just tell you that I was actually, and not so gently, guided to find where I was to blame for my child's autism. And no, I'm not making this up. And yes, my response was "fuck you."

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:16

gigi: "fuck you" was a nicety in this case. That's just horseshit, plain and simple. Sorry you had to endure such ignorance.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:13

My nephew is autistic too and my sister firmly believe it was related to childhood shots. Austin was a normal child until he was 18 months old, and each of her children reacted poorly in some respect to shots. She said the same thing to someone that wasn't in AA. I think that is ignorance over autism. And now, of course, there is some dispute if childhood shots are responsible, anyway. But Jeannie will always believe that. And, no, she is not responsible.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:37

Gigi, my son has asbergers. I never had anything like that told to me about either of my children but I can say that if I did I'd of been very upset about it. Sorry you had to go through that :(

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:38

Steppers constantly stress how Bill Wilson was very careful with his words and that the Big Book means what is says and says what it means. He chose the word "invariably" on purpose, and we can only assume he knew the definition. After all, if what you say is what he meant, he could have saved himself two keystrokes by simply typing "variably."

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:17

I make no excuses for the man. He fucked up.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:16

Without question, some of the language is awkward and outdated. Good interpretation, Becket.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:20

I don't have a dictionary from 1935, but I suspect the word "invariably" meant the same thing in common usage then as it does now. You can't blame it on the word meaning different things in different time periods.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:34

No, but there are other parts of the book I feel that way about, too.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:42

Such as?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:10

To The Wives and To The Employers.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:42

But that has more to do with a change in social and family dynamics than it does the meaning of words, right?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:36

Probably so, but again I find his writing to be dated and awkward.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 22:55

I blame it on Bill Wilson's - and his editor's - ignorance of the implications of the word. It was a bad choice.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:03

Well, if you believe AA mythology, Bill Wilson was guided by the hand of God when he wrote the Big Book (and Boniface when he wrote the 12&12). How could a perfect God make such an error? But I digress...

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:21

Indeed, Bill Wilson used the word "invariably" several times in his writings, indicating that he knew what it meant:

"But a few did, and when these laid hold of A.A. principles with all the fervor with which the drowning seize life preservers, they almost invariably got well." 12&12 pg. 22

"We do talk about each other a great deal, but we almost invariably temper such talk by a spirit of love and tolerance." BB pg. 125

"Almost invariably they got drunk." BB pg. 73

Notice how Bill Wilson qualified "invariably" with the word "almost" in these quotes, whereas he left it as simply "invariably" in the passage we are discussing here.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:27

That's fine, A+, time for recess.

But you must admit that there is a difference between "invariably" and "almost invariably". In fact, it is a giant loophole through which many of my esteemed still-sober compadres and I jumped to safety and sanity. If Bill Wilson was deliberate in his choice of words, he was deliberate in his planting of loopholes.

And if he wasn't . . . it's no skin off my nose.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:39

Of course I admit that. That was the whole point of my last paragraph, i.e., that Wilson knew how to qualify "invariably," but chose not to in the passage at issue in this conversation.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:23

I don't care what Bill Wilson believed when he wrote the BB and the 12&12. What he believed doesn't mean anything to me today. It's what I believe that means something to me.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

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