Dr. Bob and his grave are being celebrated starting this weekend June 8-10, 2012. Alcoholics Anonymous members can even be buried near him!

JR Harris's picture
Submitted by JR Harris on Sat, 06/09/2012 - 07:22

Dr. Bob’s grave is located in Mount Peace Cemetery, Akron’s second-oldest cemetery. The cemetery is located at 183 Aqueduct St., a few blocks north of West Market Street.

Cemetery officials said the site attracts people throughout the year who want to pay their respects to the Akron doctor.

One of the most popular events of Founders’ Day is a motorcycle procession to the grave and a memorial service. That will take place June 13 {2010 at time of article}at 7:30 a.m.

Signs from the main entrance to the cemetery direct visitors to the grave. Many AA visitors leave their Sobriety Coins, which are given to AA members to mark the anniversary of the day they stopped drinking, on the gravestone in tribute to Dr. Bob.

The cemetery also features a bronze plaque with the Serenity Prayer on it not far from the grave. Adjacent to that is a columbarium, which holds cremains. The columbarium is dedicated to AA and Dr. Bob and allows those wanting to have their final resting place near Dr. Bob to have their wishes granted.

Cemetery officials said the cemetery is open from sunrise to sunset every day. Visitors also are welcome to stop at the office for more detailed directions.

Read the entire piece by Kathleen Folkerth published 6/3/2010 - West Side Leader: http://akron.com/akron-ohio-community-news.asp?aID=9178

Please note that this years (2012) graveside ceremony will be held Sunday June 10, 2012 at 7:30 AM

Comments

disclosure

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 08:05

The hypocrisy of political correctness and conformity. Adolf Hitler’s parent’s grave markers were recently destroyed and their remains moved to an un-marked and un-disclosed location. The reason they said was that neo-Nazis were going to the cemetery to visit the graves and disrupting other sites.
Imagine your loved one being interned anywhere near the Dr. Bob site and getting trampled by AA zealots, littered with coffee cups, gum, and sober chips. Don’t complain on this infringement though, this pilgrimage is seen as being for the betterment of all mankind and of paramount historical importance.
The difference between the two is purely political. Unfortunately though, erasing all memory of Nazi Germany may one day clear the slate of all artifacts so that it can be argued whether or not "The Holocaust" even happened.
I do not like the Nazis. I do however think their artifact history should be preserved so that the world can see they used conformity, identification, and political correctness to achieve their goals, just like AA and many other agenda driven groups.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 10:01

The graves are those of Adolf's parents. I don't think they had anything to do with Nazism. If it was Hitler's grave, that might be different.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 11:27

True they didn't have anything to do with Adolf and his ideology, but the cult following of the Nazi's worshiping his scripture turned it into a shrine. Much like the cult following of Alcoholics Anonymous has turned Dr. Bob's grave into a shrine of worship every year. There are still lunatics that worship the scripture he wrote and it is banned in many countries, including Germany.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

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avogadno

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 13:21

The Nazi supporters shrine the gravesight belonging to the parents of Hitler? That's particularly upsetting. It gives me the shivers. I think that hate groups should be wiped out and not allowed to make public declarations.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

massive's picture

massive

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 23:31

Love the new pic here AVO :)

Massive

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alkieanon

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 08:55

Sounds like Père Lachaise Cemetery or Westminster Burial Ground.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 09:11

With the 1000's of coffee drinking and smoking cult members disturbing the early hours of Sunday morning, we wouldn't want to let them relieve themselves on someones gravestone or kill the bushes. Imagine the poor families that are going to visit their loved ones and find this motley crew hanging around?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

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alkieanon

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 08:46

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 02:41

Source:http://www.ohio.com/news/a-a-founders-day-home-away-from-home-for-thousand...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 09:16

Of course, I do have to wonder why there are no motorcycle processions, tour buses and 100's of crying not glum AA cult members doing the same thing at the grave site of Bill Wilson in Dorset Vermont. They are probably more civilized in that town or they don't want to visit the grave of the Occultist Bill Wilson.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 08:48

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 16:48

I loved it when they came through El Paso. We hope to join them next year.

Thanks, Akieanon!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 02:46

Working overtime at tax payers expense to protect society from a procession that doesn't look like that.

The Traffic Bureau is also responsible for coordinating special events like First Night, the NEC Invitational, Akron Aeros baseball games, Ohio Mart, Alcoholics Anonymous Founders Day, and the International Soap Box Derby.

source: http://publicsafety.ci.akron.oh.us/police/departments/

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:56

So AAs attending the funeral of a deceased AA member and displaying too much fanfare are doin it wrong, and AAs who attend the burial site of Bill Wilson without any fanfare whatever are doin it wrong. Where's your self-penned "Grief For Dummies - How Not To Do It Wrong" book, JR Harris? Must all consult you on the appropriate degree of sorrow even before they put on their black suits and black dresses?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 12:56

I noted that a wreath laying at what appears to be a military or police funeral that was being used to portray what happens in Akron at Dr. Bob's grave is in error. So I showed an actual picture taken during founders day weekend. Then a motorcycle parade was shown at what looks like the nations capital, which is not representative of the motorcade to Dr. Bob's grave.

I am just making the actual celebration current and life like instead of fake and made up. Sorry you take offense to that. I suggest you talk to the coven in Akron and tell then to change their rituals so that they look more like what an AA apologetic propagandist would like to see.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 13:00

What did they do at Dr. Bob's grave that was so upsetting? What was inappropriate about their behavior, Becket?

Rolling Thunder closes down a major artery in DC, and they camp at the Mall. It is organized and it closes down parts of the city from northern VA to MD. Plan your day around it if you are ever there.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 10:34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCgDYqxrSz0

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 17:33


By Jim Carney

Beacon Journal staff writer
Published: June 7, 2012 - 11:45 PM | Updated: June 8, 2012 - 10:53 AM

Nine men visiting Akron stood in a circle in front of the grave of Dr. Robert Smith.

They held hands and prayed.

Then the men recited the Lord’s Prayer and spoke of how being members of Alcoholics Anonymous has changed their lives.

“I was on the verge of suicide,” said Manny M., a 49-year-old police officer from Milwaukee. But he walked into an A.A. meeting in 1990 and has not had a drink since.

“These gentlemen were inspired by God,” Manny said of Smith, an Akron physician, and Bill Wilson, a New York stockbroker, the co-founders of A.A. who started the group in Akron in 1935.

Today there are more than 2 million A.A. members attending roughly 115,000 meetings each week around the world.

Akron becomes the center of the recovery world today through Sunday as an estimated 10,000 to 13,000 A.A. members converge for the 77th anniversary of the founding. The highlight event, known as the Big Meeting, will be Saturday at InfoCision Stadium on the University of Akron campus.

“Founders Day is a testament to our area’s rich heritage and innovative spirit,” said Gregg Mervis, interim president of the Akron/Summit Convention and Visitors Bureau. “Dr. Bob and Bill W’s tenacity remains a beacon of hope for the visitors we’ll be welcoming from throughout the U.S. and the world.”

Mervis said the annual gathering produces an estimated economic impact on the region of about $2 million.

Read the rest: http://www.ohio.com/news/a-a-founders-day-home-away-from-home-for-thousand...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 03:10

Alcoholics Anonymous Founder's Day

72nd Anniversary of Alcoholics Anonymous
By Bubba, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Jun 13, 2007

Founder's Day 2007 was celebrated June 8, 9, 10. It was the 72nd anniversary of Alcoholics Anonymous. Y'all gotta remember us alcoholics tend to expand and enhance all we do, so this day lasts over 60 hours. This gala event was held in Akron, Ohio the birthplace of Alcoholics Anonymous. Some folks consider this the largest family reunion of all times. Several thousand folks in recovery join together at Akron University to celebrate life in a special way. There are continuous meetings around the clock fer these 60 hours, continuous hugs, kisses, and other warm embraces. This maybe one of the few places you will see bikers exchanging ideas with a Wall Street Ceo, where a young college student may inspire a retired doctor or judge.

This gala event was attended by folks from every state in the USA, several other countries were represented also. There were tour buses fer those that wished to see the home of Dr Bob and his wife Alice, as well as all the historical sights relating to Alcoholics Anonymous. There were scheduled meetings and impromptu meetings, it has been said the campfire meetings are the best.

One of the events that cause an emotional euphoria is the big speaker meeting on Saturday night. The speaker is always an excellent orator and tells about his experience, strength and hope. Simply put he or she follows the format laid out in the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, how it was before he found Alcoholics Anonymous, how he found Alcoholics Anonymous, and how his life in Alcoholics Anonymous is today After the speaker has told his story we all join hands and pray the Lord's Prayer. The electricity of thousands of folks with a common bond joining hands and praying together is something that is beyond my words. This emotional euphoria is carried home and warms the heart fer years to come.

Another emotion packed event is the parade to the memorial service at the cemetery where Dr Bob and his bride Alice are interned. It is a historical fact that Bill W rode a Harley Davidson. The parade of Harley Davidson's with leather clad riders and passengers seems to grow larger each year. This years estimate was over two thousand bikes. The thunder of these machines will stir even the most hard hearted. Combine this with an emotion packed memorial service this too will create an additional emotional euphoria.

This sixty hour day ends about noon on Sunday. Well it's suppose to end. Many folks hang around fer one more cuppa coffee, one more hug, and one more intense conversation with another member of our family. Some of our family won't be here next year, some we won't see or hear from till next year. We all know they are all just a phone call away fer help, fer a prayer, fer an ear to listen to us whine.

The planning fer next years Founder's Day has already began. If y'all want more info on Alcoholics Anonymous or next years Founders Day go to www.alcoholicsanonymous.org

Source: http://voices.yahoo.com/alcoholics-anonymous-founders-day-396731.html

Of course they should mention this procession happens at 7:30 AM on SUNDAY morning.....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:19

Deakon Proudfoot got a more impressive send-off than this little putt.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 12:31


Source: http://www.rewritables.net/cybriety/bill_w__at_dr__bob%27s_grave.htm

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

patti

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 22:04

Wilson is looking seriously raggedy in this photo, I am even more suspicious, he was still drinking, he looks like ten miles of rough road & like a hard core, drinking & smoking unhealthy weathered & beat up person. He was still drinking, by the looks of him.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 22:22

I don't see anything like that. I see a man in mourning.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 03:59

I see a guy who is looking like a reflection of his life, when you behave reprehensibly it catches up to you eventually, all that lying, cheating, stealing, scamming, adultery, abusing, exploiting, control freaking, it's hard to look healthy when you live such an unhealthful & immoral life. Wilson's appearance reflects his life & choices, live bad, look bad.

patti

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 12:54


Source: http://www.gpb.org/news/2012/06/11/bill-w-day-celebrates-alcoholics-anonym...?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

patti

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 22:10

I actually was @ his grave site & the AAers I was stuck with were oohing & aahing over how modest his & Lois's grave stones were, that the modest grave stone was a befitting tribute to a modest life. Oh, the lies, over & over, Wilson was modest, not! Not @ all! Then we went to his grandparents house, where he was born behind a bar! Oh, oh, oh it was sacred to the boneheaded brainwashed fanatics I was with. A handful of real beat up dulled eyed & not very bright true believers were there, chain smoking & drinking coffee & acting worshipful & being good little doormats & brain washed true believers. None of them appeared to have a job or anything else to do that day. raggedy looking, no interest or pride in their personal appearance, long hair on grown men, very undignified, old raggedy clothing, beat up, no self esteem, no interest in their appearance or intelligence, all about nothing but the cult & worshiping Wilson, it was typical AA creepy.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 06/12/2012 - 22:21

Looks modest to me. So he was born behind a bar. He had humble beginnings and they weren't wealthy. but renting space.

How can you tell by looking at a person that he doesn't have a job? Perhaps he was on vacation, too. What a moronic post of judgment. I know plenty of people with long hair whose bank balances might exceed yours and all from their own efforts. Unbelievable.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 04:18

Wilson did not live a modest life or life style, he drove a Cadillac paid for by fellows just like you, who belonged back then. Wilson did not get up each morning like a decent & productive member of society & go to a job & contribute to society or pay taxes, another thing he got over on in his life in the AA fellowship. Wilson did send Lois to a job though, both before & after AA, she got up in the morning & went to work & Wilson lived off of her paycheck. Can you imagine how many times Wilson was committing adultery, exploiting both Lois & another woman while Lois was safely tucked away working? Gave Wilson time for his extra curricular & not religious or "spiritual" activities. Wilson's beginnings were not humble, his grandparents owned a bar & a hotel & a house up the street, they owned two properties & 2 businesses, not very humble, actually profitable. The people @ the shrine/hotel/bar where Wilson was born, talked of course, they babbled & babbled about themselves, they volunteer there every day & do not have jobs, they were giving back, volunteering all that time, we were new sets of ears to AA boast to & like most AA members they were full of themselves for belonging to a sub culture & being brain washed, like its some kind of accomplishment. Meanwhile the fat cats with jobs @ AA earn a salary & benefits. Yeah, the AA members are living the dream. Along with the long hair on men in their 40's & 50's were raggedy clothes, a beat up demeanor & an air of desperation, why do you think AAers brag so much, they are insecure & it's apparent via the bragging. These poor souls had absolutely no dignity, how can a person belong to a cult, not have their own mind, not be their own person, not have an identity outside of the cult & be anything but a brain washed & defeated individual living their life's on someone elses terms & beating to the drum of an immoral & unqualified psycho babbler like Wilson? They had no character, no self identity, no dignity, they were adults that follow another adult, they lacked the quality of being their own person. Their appearances reflected their lack of character & dignity. Clara, why are you mentioning money & bank balances? What reflects a good stepper, living the steps or a fat cat bank balance, like Wilson gained & exploited for himself?

patti

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 05:43

Modest, frugal, and middle class.

"If I never have a cent
I'll be rich as Rockefeller
With gold dust at my feet
On the sunny side of the street."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 10:59

Good for you, Patti! Your original post would make it out as if Bill was some scummer because he was born behind a bar. Now you seem to recognize that he was from a family of reasonable repute. His mother went on to become a doctor after his father abandoned the family.

The reason I mention bank balances was because of your absurd notions based simply on appearance. You might want to look at the book The Millionaire next door.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 05:18

Clara,
as usual you deflect. Wilson lied so much & so often about his life, that he attended college, went to law school but did not graduate due to missing the graduation ceremony! One still earns & accomplishes a diploma, they do not have to attend a graduation ceremony to have earned a diploma. Didn't Wilson's Mom dump Wilson on his Grandparents, didn't she abandon him also? Wilson's Father abandoned the family, no big surprise there, children emulate their parents actions, Wilson's Dad was a bum, Wilson was a bum also. My notions were not based simply on the appearances of the brain dead @ the house/hotel/bar/shrine, I also observed the dull eyes, the lack of self, the brain washed & parroting of slogans & another adults words, Wilson. This is wrong, for an adult to not have their own identity, not be their own person, to be so dependent on a group identity & to constantly parrot another adult's words, sayings & anecdotal philosophies & psycho babble, it is abnormal & unhealthy. You can AA rap all you want, its a weird & unhealthy existence & one's appearance when they are a brain washed cult member is not impressive or positive.

patti

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Trisha K.

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 09:43

"Wilson lied so much & so often about his life, that he attended college, went to law school but did not graduate due to missing the graduation ceremony! One still earns & accomplishes a diploma, they do not have to attend a graduation ceremony to have earned a diploma. Didn't Wilson's Mom dump Wilson on his Grandparents, didn't.

I my memory serves me well, Bill didn't actually say these things. He is being quoted isn't he? Do writers always quote accurately.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

patti

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 15:52

Clara,
I've clearly written that Wilson was a scumbag because of being a liar, thief, con man, adulterer, abuser & exploiter, not because of where he was born. Oh yeah, he was also particularly scummy when he conned the elderly widow for her home way below value. That was particularly reprehensible.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 12:52

If Bill Wilson lived off Lois' paycheck and he was driving a Cadillac, what kinda job did Lois have? Was she a surgeon or an engineer or an anesthesiologist?! Income generated by either person in a married couple, at least back then, and without a prenup, was likely considered communal monies - so what's the big deal about Bill Wilson spending some of Lois' money? If he was also making money through AA, in whatever fashion, then Lois was not fully supporting him - what's the big deal? You want to gripe about money he made through AA and also gripe that Lois was supporting him - give it a rest.

Profit and a humble lifestyle are not mutually exclusive.

"Along with the long hair on men in their 40's & 50's were raggedy clothes, a beat up demeanor & an air of desperation, why do you think AAers brag so much, they are insecure & it's apparent via the bragging." What on earth does this mean? They may have been missing a haircut and a decent suit, but that does not reflect a lack of basic decency or honesty. "These poor souls had absolutely no dignity . . . " - says who, you? If they were making decisions of their own accord and chose to go to AA, where is the loss of dignity in that? Did you ever consider that perhaps many of them wanted to be there, and the rest who did not want to be there simply left without whining about how bad AA was? These were post-war individuals. They didn't whine. There's a lot to be said for just pulling oneself up by the bootstraps and keeping on walking. "They had no character, no self identity, no dignity, they were adults that follow another adult, they lacked the quality of being their own person," you say. This is nothing short of outrageous. Your viewpoint is so narrow light can't even get through.

"Their appearances reflected their lack of character & dignity." Since when do appearances tell the story of one's life? Mussolini, Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin were always dressed to the nines. Would you say these men were of sterling character and admirable dignity? You are unreal.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:20

The Alcoholics Foundation eventually turned into Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc, at the Interchurch Center. The Alcoholics Foundation was giving Bill Wilson $320 a month to be a bum. Part of that money in the early years of 1938 came from Bill W begging $5,000 from the Rockefeller Foundation, he wanted $50,000. Rockefeller turned him down on the $50,000 but did allow him to use a room in his name at The Union Club in New York and donations were not accepted.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:25

"If he was also making money through AA, in whatever fashion, then Lois was not fully supporting him . . . "

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 13:39

Wilson was at 182 Clinton Street in Brooklyn New York which was Lois's parents house in 1936, Lois was working menial jobs tp support them while Bill was practicing his chanting on Bill C, a Canadian lawyer that ended up killing himself with the kitchen stove and Bill turned him into a martyr and said he was not following the program that hadn't even been published yet. Because Bill chose to play "witch doctor" experimenting with rituals and chants instead of working, the house was foreclosed on. That is when Wilson searched his followers and found the widow Helen Griffith and with the help of another AA member Joan C. scammed the poor widow out of the Stepping Stones compound in Bedford New York that the fellowship paid for.

This same scenario is being played out in the rooms of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous today.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 15:09

Maybe they don't dress up to go to graves. Maybe they were on vacation. They might have been riding bikes. When we were in Daytona, we didn't dress up to ride.

It isn't and indication of anything, Patti, other than malice on your part.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 05:33

Beckett,
you are well aware that Wilson procured a well paying position for Lois @ AA, she was a paid staff member, while others volunteered hours & hours of their time for free. You are well aware that Wilson needed to keep Lois out of his hair, due to his extra curricular activities. You are well aware that Wilson scammed any body & every body he could, anyone that crossed his path & was exploitable. Wilson drove a Cadillac paid for by AA members, his "fellows". Wilson begged & mooched money out of his "fellows", the "Lois House Fund" to pay for Stepping Stones. Wilson exploited & manipulated a vulnerable old lady widow out of a fair value for her home & conned her into taking way less than the home was worth. Can you imagine manipulating & conning a vulnerable & fragile elderly widow? That is seriously scumbag behavior, abusive & exploiting. Prior to creating the AA meal ticket for himself, Wilson lived off of Lois working & her parents, then he tapped into his "fellows", living in their homes, eating their food, etc. Wilson hit the lottery when he published the book & starting collecting from it, he embezzled funds, had a high paying salary & still he sent Lois to a job each day, while he stayed home & plagiarized more books, more money. Wilson stole & exploited from other writers who did the hard work of writing, he plagiarized their words & work & made money from their efforts & exploited them too. "give it a rest", you due to all your time in AA, think you have the right to control & direct others, what to think, feel, say, how to act, etc. It's not AA here, no one is going to act upon your directions & instructions & do or act as you instruct. Get back in the rooms if you need to control or attempt to control. You are always attempting to control on this forum, why? It's not healthy for you. Attempting to control others is a stupid way to live your life. In your mind my viewpoints are outrageous, they are not outrageous, they are valid. Being a follower, being brain washed, parroting another adults words, slogans & psycho babble is undignified. Their appearance reflects their lack of self identity, their lack of dignity. Of course Mussolini, Hitler & Amin dressed to the nines, they were living off of & exploiting others, they were the fat cats, the top dogs. Wilson also dressed to the nines & drove a status & prestige vehicle a Cadillac, he was also a dictator like said men, he also lived off of & exploited others, Wilson only had a cult, they had nations & a government.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 10:03

Do not presume to tell me what I am and am not well aware of, patti. You have no idea how thoroughly disinterested I am in the machinations of Bill Wilson. I could not give a flying fuck if he swung from the pinnacle of the Empire State Building totally nude, with some tart's g-string between his teeth, a wad a AA cash in his free hand, and his long-suffering wife Lois at street level stringing up a Wallendas-style net* to catch him after his inevitable and tawdry fall.

" . . . you due to all your time in AA, think you have the right to control & direct others, what to think, feel, say, how to act, etc." I think no such thing. If you feel pressured to do or think or feel anything because of what I have written, that onus is on you, my dear, not on me. You are certainly free to accept or discard any and all that I write. I claim neither need nor justification in allegedly controlling or directing others. Please don't gag me with your intimation that what I do is not "healthy" for me. I'm abundantly aware that you don't give a shit whether I run a 26-mile marathon or drink a quart of vodka and slice open my own carotids. Don't feign concern - it's cheap.

In my mind your viewpoints are viewpoints, nothing more, nothing less. They are not corroborated by any legitimate sources, they are just the ramblings (and I do mean ramblings) of a "joiner", someone who needs to belong, someone who is not an independent thinker. This also means nothing to you, so no need to get on your high horse about it.

Clarence Snyder's letter from 1944, which can be found in the Orange Papers, claims Bill Wilson was driving a "new Cadillac". "For Cadillac, 1944 was the second year without a consumer production run. The plants that once churned out cars and automobile parts were now producing tanks, munitions and personnel carriers. The war effort was on in full and Cadillac was determined to do their part to help restore order to a fragmenting world . . . During 1944, the only Cadillacs available for consumers were the ones still sitting in showrooms from 1943 or those for sale by their owners." (http://www.cadillaccountryclub.com/1944-cadillac.htm) I doubt Bill's was a new car.

Bill Wilson was a "dictator"? You're gonna have to do some fast talkin to substantiate that.

*The Wallendas did not use nets. This is a post-modern metaphor for AlAnon.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 11:03

you rudely & often write direct orders to people on this forum. you direct them to move on, let it go, what to do, think & feel. you attempt to control people on this forum, this is what goes on in AA, control, telling people what to do, think & feel. it's insane, unhealthy & a stupid life, both for the controller & their victim. it is unhealthy that you attempt to control on this forum, you do it constantly, with name calling, personal attacks & direct orders over & over. It's not an AA room, being a successful control freak isn't going to work in too many adult environments, it does happen in AA daily, all the time. Wilson dictated, he & his followers told people over & over they must follow his "suggestions" or they would wind up in jail, an institution or dead. Wilson dictated that if people did not follow his "suggestions", they were signing their own death warrant. Wilson & his followers, dictate to any victim they can control & AA members, sponsors try to control their victims entire existence, it's insane & unhealthy. The semantics, "suggestions", come on what kind of billshit is that, using the word "suggestions", when they are directions & instructions communicated with fear & scaring the shit out of vulnerable addicts & telling them you have to listen to us, cause we will save your life & know it all. It doesn't matter what you write, you always try to control any & every one on this forum by demanding they provide documentation, a further point, individual thought, whatever words or excuses you create, you just want to control people, you apparently get off on it. Nobody has to toe your line, nobody. If you need to fulfill your control freak needs get back in AA, become a sponsor.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 11:43

Grow a spine and get over it.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 12:08

getting over AA & Wilson is the solution a pro AAer would direct. 2 direct orders in this post. 1. grow a spine. 2. get over it. Again you are attempting to direct me & control how I think or feel or what I do. I am to be a good doormat & follow your orders & grow a spine & get over it. Won't be following these orders either or complying with your instructions.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 10:49

Good lord, there are few others on the forum that try to control how others think and post than you do, Patti. As for Hitler dressing to the nines, yeah, given that his uniform was his favorite dresswar, yeah...
How to reconcile dressing to the nines with your assesstment as to how he looked at Bob's grave?

At least you used some reasonable punctuation in this post. One or two periods made all the difference.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 12:10

it's a forum, Clara, I express my feelings & opinions regarding AA, so what? You are here as a pro AA & stepper, I'm on an anti AA forum & am anti AA. I could understand your opinion if I was on a pro AA forum, but I'm not. I fled & rejected AA.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 13:49

Which is your choice and good for AA that you did. But others are entitled to their opinions and experiences as well.

This may be an Anti-AA forum, but the rules for the board include everyone. While others have admitted to going to e-AA to for the sole purpose of creating mischief, my only purpose here is to learn and give balance. Which I can.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 14:13

It's your choice to ride on a Highway maintained by the KKK. It doesn't matter if you have to go by there to get to work or your family has to go to school or grocery shopping, just move where you don't have to use that road. Don't care about the people that will join their secret society that has weird rituals and ceremonies. Luckily they don't perform them in churches like Alcoholics Anonymous. http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1659

How do you know that Alcoholics Anonymous is not like Scientology if you haven't read Dianetics?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 06/14/2012 - 14:03

Would you drive around it, JR Harris? Would you re-route a long trip so you wouldn't have to get your tires soiled by KKK-maintained roadway?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 00:02

What were you doing at the grave, patti? Reporting for "Arrogance Weekly"? I'm serious: what business did you have visiting the grave of someone you would spit on if he were alive? What did you hope to gain?

I think you're creepy.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 06/13/2012 - 05:26

"We're everywhere you want to be".

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