Step 7 Removal of Shortcomings

NoAAUK's picture
Submitted by NoAAUK on Fri, 06/08/2012 - 05:49

I hope it is safe to assume that these shortcomings are the famous 'character defects' so often referred to in stepper meetings?

The big question for me is 'does God remove these shortcomings if humbly asked?’ And if he does, then why is there a need to do Step 10. Why is there a need for continued personal inventory, if God has already removed our shortcomings in Step 7?

This raises a number of questions:-

1) Does step 7 actually work?

2) Does God only remove our shortcomings temporarily and if so for how long.....do they return at midnight like Cinderella at the Ball (come to think of it steppism is a fairy story) or can you have them removed for longer periods and if so, what’s the maximum time God will remove a shortcoming for?

3) Or do steppers constantly develop new shortcomings as a result of doing the 12 steps and going to meetings, and have to constantly take inventory and admit they are wrong? Steppism is therefore ANTIspiritual (not religious) and actually creates shortcomings and therefore spiritual diseases

4) Or do steppers hang on to shortcomings and it is these that have to acknowledged in Step 10 Or perhaps a combination of hung onto shortcomings and new shortcomings?

5) Can you partially hang on to a shortcoming so you only have half a shortcoming to acknowledge and admit you are wrong in step 10?

6) Can/will God remove a shortcoming that you are hanging on to?

7) Why do steppers humbly ask God to REMOVE their shortcomings in step 7 but only PROMTLY ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG when they find new or hung onto shortcomings in step 10?

8) Is Step 10 really a way to keep hung onto shortcomings, by just promptly admitting you are wrong, but not humbly asking God to remove them and therefore does Step 10 actually jeopardise a steppers sobriety?

9) Why not skip step 6 and go directly to step 7, a bit like playing snakes and ladders?

Can any of our resident stepper Gurus enlighten me as I want to understand the 'message'

Comments

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 06:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3odwo4T5oI

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ...." Matthew 24:10

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 06:07

Same old BS

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 06:17

NoAAUK asks: "This raises a number of questions ..." Same old BS questions.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ...." Matthew 24:10

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 06:39

So come on, how long does God remove shortcomings in step 7 and why dosen't he remover short comings in step 10 you just admit you are wrong.

Does step 7 work or not and for how long?

I wouldn't need to ask the same old BS questions if AA didn't keep using the same old BS Steps

Are you really telling me that God removes shortcomings just because you join a stepper cult and ask him to? Or magics away a desire to drink (but wont magic you to be able to drink)

How anyone can possibly take steppism seriously this day and age in the so called 'developed' world is beyond me. Its prehistoric mumbo jumbo

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 06:54

The answer(s) have been given. You just don't like them.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ...." Matthew 24:10

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 06:56

where are these answers? I would like to read them.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:03

Right here, right now, OPF.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ...." Matthew 24:10

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:22

NoAAUK: this loathing for step 7 continues to come up in your postings. Is this where you quit? Just couldn't go any further? Just wouldn't go any further?

I don't believe the steps are really beyond you. I think they're right in your face.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:09

So for HOW long does God remove your shortcomings, once again you people never give a straight answer. I'll forget about why God can't just as easily miracle steppers into being able to drink normally, thats a lost cause, but what about step 7 does it work and if so, for how long? Does God remove all shortcomings for the same length of time?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 07:14

I thinkk step ten is a management step. Things come up in daily life and if I deal with it in a spot check inventory, it keeps it from developing into something bigger.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

gigi

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 10:01

Step ten is the only step that makes a damn bit of practical sense.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:24

"Step ten is the only step that makes a damn bit of practical sense." . . . to you.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:15

But you shouldn't need a step 10 if step 7 actually worked, steppers should be the perfect, top of the range spiritual beings they like to pretend they are at meetings, with serenity and tolerance and all kinds of spiritual (not religious) things coming out of their ears

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

justme's picture

justme

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:36

My only shortcoming is that I'm human which isn't really a shortcoming, nor a character defect, it just is what it is. The human condition isn't easy. If there were a God (which I have no idea if there is one or not), I wouldn't want him or her to take away my humanness. Being human is sorta cool. Nothing wrong with it. 7 billion people are doing it. :)

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:03

Right on, justme.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:24

I believe the spiritual journey which everyone is on, is a learning process, shortcomings disappear as we learn and mature, thats the point of this life, not to get pissed and then ask God to remove our shortcomings and do everthing we ask. That would spoil the true purpose of this life

Steppism stops this learning and maturing process and creates cult zombies, thats what satan wants, thats why satan gave his prophet wilson the steps, via the Oxford Groups.

Step 10 would make sense, if it wasn't a step, if it was just a continued inventory, and not something just to keep taking on an on about in stepper cult meetings

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:05

I have always wondered why some people had a problem with the steps at all. It's no different than ho'oponopono, or any other type of self cleansing to me. What is there to fear about a fourth step that you don't already live with? If booze isn't kicking your ass, why are you trying to find ways to moderate it? Non-alcoholics don't look for directlink moderation, HAMS, MM or others. What I hear on these boards is a constant refrain of defiance.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

justme's picture

justme

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:22

..........
never mind.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:29

The Steps are used to capture, manipulate and control the poor unfortunates that fall into the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous that Bill Wilson built to fund his life style of not working, being paid 5 times the normal wage, living in a mansion, driving a Cadillac and having mistresses. Bill Wilson is dead, let the cult die also. The other options you mentioned do not require chanting or rituals, get off it. The closest alternative to Bill Wilson Chanting is Scientology.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:51

"Bill Wilson is dead, let the cult die also."

This statement implies a passive position, to "let" the cult die. So are you grinding against your own advice to everyone else by attempting to bludgeon it to death with guilt-by-association tales, misrepresentation of the actual program of AA, and claiming that murder will be one's likely end if s/he attends a meeting?

Will there be anything else, Doctor?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

gigi

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:02

Because working the steps has nothing to do with 'booze kicking your ass.'

ho'oponopono? I don't want to know...

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:52

Could it be that working the steps had nothing to do with booze kicking YOUR ass? Is it presumptuous for you to evaluate anyone else's application of the steps to their lives?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

gigi

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:30

No. The steps have nothing to do with quitting drinking. They don't. If someone is able to successfully apply them to their lives and simultaneously quit drinking, that's great. But it still does not mean that the steps have anything to do with quitting drinking. I worked the steps dilligently and in earnest. I also was able to quit drinking while doing so. This does not mean that there is a cause and effect relationship between working the steps and overcoming addiction. It just means that the two things occurred simultaneously. I'm pretty damn sure that if I had embarked upon a regimen of 90 yoga classes in 90 days, in the belief that downward facing dog was the key to sobriety, that I would have succeeded.
Buckling down, sucking it up and not drinking is the only way to get sober. The steps are nothing but a distraction.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:39

If so, they were a good distraction for me.

Funny you'd bring up yoga. We had a happy hour yoga class in my group. DownwardFacing Dog is one that I could do drunk but not sober!. Vertigo is hell.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:35

You went to an AA yoga group, doesn’t that suggest to you that you could be immersed in a cult?

Do you go to an AA hairdressers?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:57

The steps are meant to break people down and dwell on the negative components of their life making them needy of the group (hopefully) forever. AA is designed to keep people sick and always "coming back" to find relief. It's a scam. They are taking advantage of people when they are already at a low point in their life and instead of helping them build on their strong points they have them focus on the negative ones.

Alcoholics Anonymous or any of the 12 step groups are religious rituals, that's why people have a problem with them.

You are just a big part of the scam, spreading the lies and billshit Clara. A sure sign of a cult is when the most important part of the program is making sure you go out and find new people to join up. It's the biggest joke of the 20th century.

You're brainwashed Clara. If you were just sitting back and enjoying yourself involving no one but yourself it would be perfectly fine. But you have been programmed to go soliciting for others.

That's the one place that I personally draw the line when it comes to my involvement with AA's. I can respect their choice and even support it until they go spreading lies, trying to get others to join.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:02

Damn, when most of us first came to AA, there was probably an over abundance of negativity going on in our lives. Making a decision to work the steps to correct the negativity in my life meant having to spend some time looking back on my life. For some of us that meant it would take time, months probably, maybe even years sorting through the turmoil. I didn't need to be broken down, I was already there when I arrived. I needed practical solutions to begin to restore my faith in me. AA taught me in a very simple way how to build positive habits that would sustain a healthy attitude. AA gave me a starting point, psychiatric counseling and the ongoing workshops I do help me to further my education myself.
I have said this before, the biggest problem with AA today, is people believe they need to attend meetings for the rest of their lives. Not everyone but most IMO. Dependency produces negativity. If you feel trapped, guess what you are. Who likes that feeling.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:11

It is unhealthy and what the narcissistic members of AA that are recruited from jails and prisons love to do. They attack the pigeons (prospects) that AA provides.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:19

AntiCultCultSpeak.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 05:05

Call it what you want, but it is still true. When a friend of mine was in prison the stepper inmates came around other inmates cells trying to pester them to go to cult meetings

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 14:05

thoughts.
I have never found dwelling to be unhealthy, JR. I guess one could obsessively dwell and that would probably produce some narcissism.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:56

So DID God remove your shortcomings?

"For some of us that meant it would take time, months probably, maybe even years sorting through the turmoil."

So does this mean it takes different amouts of time for God to remove shortcomings, he can't just miracle them away in one magical instant?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 14:06

I don"t look to god to solve my problems, sorry.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 05:08

So you admit the 12 steps are satan's program?

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:25

Snide and narrow-minded, NoAAUK.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 05:13

Just trying to expose how stepper talk is nonesense for people afraid to leave the cult who may be visiting this forum, thats one of the goals of the Orange Papers

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:49

"You're brainwashed Clara. If you were just sitting back and enjoying yourself involving no one but yourself it would be perfectly fine. But you have been programmed to go soliciting for others."

Yes Avo, that’s the problem, nobody really cares if a few lunatics want to sit around in meetings regurgitating the same cult speak over and over again and delude themselves that they are Gods chosen ones. Let them STAY in their meetings, away from the real world.

But they don't, do they, they have to keep intruding into the real world, to recruit more vulnerable bemused people into the cult for their own self satisfying reasons, whether with direct or indirect coercion

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 13:46

That is only so true, Avo. In our clubhouse, people came to us. I never solicited anyone nor do I talk about my AA experience to anyone unless there is a reason to do so.

I disagree that the steps are designed to create a neediness on a group. I found them to be rather freeing, myself.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 05:15

Total surrender to a higher power.......freeing?????

Sounds like satanism to me

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:27

Its not self cleansing, you are 'humbly asking' God to remove your shortcomings, I'm going to start to keep a list of stepper contradictions, there are so many

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 13:44

Yes, but I have to pursue that, NoA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 04:58

Because drinking alcohol in pubs is a social thing. Not all of us like spending our leisure time in stepper cults

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

justme's picture

justme

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:48

Any religion that is based on telling the believer that they're "no good" or "sick" or "not good enough" or have "character defects" and can NEVER ever ever be good enough without the help of some invisible super-being is pure hocus pocus nonsense.

It isn't healthy to believe any of that garbage. It is dangerous for a person's self esteem and their self value as a human being.

If you MUST believe in a religion, choose one that doesn't belittle you as a person. Choose one that values you and gives you strength because it supports you and doesn't find fault with you.

Wars are fought all over this planet in the name of God! If there IS a God, he or she is NOT a judgmental, abusive God, but instead a LOVING and SUPPORTIVE God and he or she is NOT happy that people are fighting wars in the name of God.

The "steps" to turn your will over to an invisible super-being and "admit" that you are FLAWED are STUPID and can be very harmful!

You are NOT flawed. You do NOT have "character defects". You are HUMAN.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:11

Two things, justme:

1. Some people do not see AA or experience AA as a religion. I didn't. I already had a religion. I don't want to argue this point, as it has been addressed here hundreds of times. I'm just offering a different perspective to your post.

2. Some people do not feel belittled by AA in any way. I didn't and I still don't, even though I don't attend meetings or have any involvement with AA aside from posting bits and pieces about it on this forum. AA is not a holy war, and most people who attend are free to come and go, to say "no, thanks", to decide for themselves their degree of participation. And the rest, the coercees, should just be dumped in jail until their time is served.

Do you believe in God? It appears you are an agnostic who has some very specific ideas about what God might be. Fascinating.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

justme's picture

justme

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:57

If you have to turn your life and will over to a "Higher Power", it's a religion. My religion is art and poetry and music and love and being HUMAN. Enlightenment is LOVE. Love doesn't tell people there's something wrong with them that can never ever ever be "right" or "fixed". That's not what love is. Love is respect and acceptance and the knowledge that we're all part of a beautiful universal cosmos which is scientifically evolving. I'm looking forward to the day when human beings finally evolve past fighting wars with each other, past belittling each other, and into acceptance and respect for each other. I believe in science and human wonder and joy and LIFE.

Agnosticism is "fascinating"? Cool. Who knew? LIFE is fascinating. Human beings are fascinating. They aren't "flawed."

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:33

So, then, you are the Supreme Being who made all things? Or you are the zenith of intelligence, art, music, architecture, writing, sailboat construction, truck driving and clam digging, just for starters? Do you feel your art and poetry are superior to Degas' or Picasso's or Gluck's or Bukowski's? Really? Truly?

If art and writing are your higher powers, you learn within those disciplines and you hone your craft. Because there are poets and painters and watercolorists and novelists whose work far surpasses yours in terms of quality, content, sophistication, message, would you say that the true masters of these media could be considered higher powers and that your study of them, your embrace of their gifts, your imitation of them makes the practice of emulating them akin to a Christian doing his best to live a Christ-like life? What do you call that? I call it religion.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:02

I think it is probably more true that justme is capable of expressing herself artisticly when no one else can. It doesn't matter how good anyone else is, they can't see with in another's self and express it for them.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

justme's picture

justme

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:24

I believe we're all creators. We create our attitudes, our lives, our friendships, etc. I just happen to enjoy creating art and poetry and music. But everybody creates something. You're right. I never compared myself with any other artist. I'm Just Me. *smile*

This is what I tell myself.... "Always remember, you're unique just like everybody else." .. haha.. Can't remember who originally said this to credit the author but I love that quote.

Thank you!

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:08

What do you mean "when no one else can"?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:50

I think you are asking me becket. In any case, I meant that no one can express justme other than her.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

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