Leaving AA - What's next? Judge becker?

live_free_or_die's picture
Submitted by live_free_or_die on Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:52

This is a question for judge becker. I have asked the question of the judge twice now, with no response. Perhaps he did not see it. Perhaps he will not answer it.

From a post by judge becker, and I qoute:
"Within AA I put distance between myself and my dependance on booze. I am free of obsession and compulsion and have been for over 30 years, so I don't feel any particular pull toward drinking again; so the assertion that the 12-step program is preventing me from drinking again is an erroneous one.

"Anything else I can help you with?" END OF QUOTE

Well judge, yes, you can help me with a question. Thanks for asking.

judge becker, you have said you have been sober for 30+ years. judge, you have also said you have not been to an AA meeting in some 20+ years. These are your own statments_YOU OWN THEM.

So here is the question:

1. You, judge, state above that the 12 step program is not preventing you from drinking.

What then, is preventing you from drinking?

Comments

justme's picture

justme

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:17

I'm not attempting to answer for him, but most people who stop drinking, stop because they want to stop. They just don't want to do it any more.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:26

Yes justme. That is how I quit. No AA, or any other program, for that matter.

I have read that 70% plus of people that quit drinking do just that, they quit, by choice, because they don't want to do it anymore.

I would like to hear becket's experience since leaving AA.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:32

I am sure there is truth in both. But for the 30% that need some help, that is where SMART, AA and the other programs come in. Not everyone can stop on their own (or stay stopped). That was true of my sponsor 40 years ago and for me, too.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:34

Not everyone can stop on their own (or stay stopped).

Bull. Unless you have some crazy condition that causes you to perform certain involuntary physical actions, you can stop and stay stopped on your own. Craving a drink or being an alcoholic is not one of those conditions.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:02

@Pennywise

Just because you can become sober on command doesn't mean others can.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:25

I think anyone can. "Can" does not necessarily mean "will," but I do think all people could, if they really wanted to, get sober without a support program.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:38

I don't disagree with your comment CLar.

If AA/12 steps works for you then by all means use it.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

justme's picture

justme

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:47

I decided not to drink today,
but they opened the liquor store.
Plus, it's a weekend holiday,
so I guess I'll go buy some more.

I don't need any help at all
but it would help if they would close it.
The state makes money when it's open
and everybody knows it!

:D
heh

justme's picture

justme

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:31

Cheers! Happy Memorial Day! God bless all the poor soldiers who have died so the US can continue to occupy foreign countries and control their resources, especially oil, all in the name of "freedom." We've lost many good men and women.

justme's picture

justme

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 10:26

I drank today's drinks yesterday and now the liquor store's closed. What a dummy I am.

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:49

Probably he focused on hobbies and a behavior change. Isn't becket an artist? he/she used to have the signature- exctatics- or something.

Maybe a stable home life and someones smothering love.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:00

Who is "he", DD? Behavioral change is a big part of my AA story.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:11

becket. he or she, we don't know.
live_free_or_die created the thread about becket.

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:13

I am waiting for the judge to weigh in.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:01

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html#Harvard_Mental

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:28

"Within AA I put distance between myself and my dependance on booze. I am free of obsession and compulsion and have been for over 30 years, so I don't feel any particular pull toward drinking again."

live_free_or_die, if this does not explain my current situation to you then I cannot help you. I'm free of the bond of dependency. I have more sober years than dependent years to tell me it's not a particularly great idea to run down to Better Buy Liquors and pick up a package.

I'm familiar enough with your style of engagement on this forum to know that your interest does not lie in the answer to your question but, instead, in the thrill of anticipated ambush. I'm not compelled to play this game with you. If you didn't understand my statement the first time, and you still fail to understand it this time, then I think we're done here.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:41

I thought this might be your response. In fact, I made note of that in my blog post. No Balls, again?

I assure you there is no ambush, just an interest in how you have not succumbed to the drink.

There are some new OPF members here (and lurkers) and I thought you might share some insight as to how you have remained free of alcohol for 30+ years. After all, that is quite an accomplishment, 30+ years, if true.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:42

Perhaps the compulsion to drink has been lifted. I don't see it as having a place in my life, and I don't go to meetings with the same regularity as I did at one time.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:58

I have not picked up an alcoholic drink and drunk it. That's how I have not succumbed today.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 18:40

So for you it is still a day to day situation? After 30+ plus years?

I have not had a drink of alcohol in just a little over 2 years. No programs or any help whatsover, I just quit. I had been sober for about 1 1/2 years before I found the Orange Papers.

I replaced that time not spent drinking with reading books, walking, working, watching movies ( I love TMC ) and reading the Orange Papers.

I was honestly curious to hear what you replaced your drinking with for the last 20 years and I also thought your response might help others.

Again, congrats on your length of time sober.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

flannigan

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:41

I believe that becket has not drank alcohol in 30 years because he/she has chosen to not drink alcohol in 30 years. Sounds reasonable to me. Congrats on your sobriety, becket.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:59

Thank you, flannigan.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 06:22

1801 Webster St (at Buena Vista Ave), Alameda, CA 94501

https://foursquare.com/v/better-buy-liquors-store/4ba5d693f964a5200c2539e3

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:52

Yes, live_ ... I have lived in Alameda, in Oakland, in Berkeley and also in Southern California. I always thought the name "Better Buy" was clever.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:50

Call him on his billshit.

He'll take his toys and ball-less self and go home.

Ha.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 18:00

There's no "billshit" in my responses. I don't quote pages from the Big Book or the 12 & 12. I don't evangelize. I don't attend meetings or sponsor anyone. I don't "prospect hunt". I try to answer your questions as best I can. If you are looking for a different answer, ask someone else.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 08:02

Of course, there is also no obligation to respond, anyway, especially if you feel the person is simply trying to be baiting. That tends to show itself pretty quickly.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:05

Stop being a jerk this passive aggressive behavior is annnoying.
Your username sends out a message of acceptance. Act like it. Allow people on this site to,"live free or die".

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

John-Barleycorn

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:37

It is obvious that you assume way too much about people in general . Has this always been a problem for you? You don't seem to give a fazizzell about others opinions ,as you put forth in your treatsie on how to act on the Orange Papers Forum , you know your nonsensical rant on the blog ,Orange has spoken , at least danny you fixed your tells.

SandyB's picture

SandyB

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 06:42

you can skip the live free part

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 06:15

I am free of obsession and compulsion and have been for over 30 years,

Isn't it about time he started thinking about something else then....

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:49

NoAAUK: I write about drinking here because this is a forum about drinking/not drinking, AA/not AA, etc. If it were a forum on classic cars I'd write about my Studebaker, or one of my Chevys. If this were a forum about creative writing I would address that. You assume I have nothing else to do. You're mistaken.

One more thing: I'm grateful every day that I'm not drinking. I don't want to forget what my drinking days were like. In comparison today is a cakewalk. So every day I'm aware I'm sober. If you have a problem with that, remember it's your problem and not mine.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 01:49

Firstly I didn't realise you were the Judge Becker referred to in this blog.

Secondly you have been stopped drinking 30 years (no applause....whoopy do.... outside of AA that statement means jack shit).

So how many years were you ACTUALLY drinking? More to the point how many years were you actually problem drinking....1 year, 2 years....... a day? I don't like to advise people on their drinking/Not drinking, everybody’s different, but the chances are after 30 years NOT drinking, you were not actually problem drinking that long. And if that is the case then the chances are that you can probably drink normally now and possibly have been able to for about the last 28 years.

Now you do what you want to do, if those pathetic stepper meetings float your boat, who really gives shit, I don't have to listen to you people and your cult garbage anymore.

But you people don't stop there do you? Its the biggest requirement of your cancerous cult to constantly recruit new members from the bemused and vulnerable with your lying, misinforming and fear mongering.....that is what I have a problem with.

I don't give a monkeys about YOUR sobriety, what does bother me is how many MORE peoples lives YOUR sick satanic cult is going to destroy. How many more people are going to commit suicide so you people (most of whom can now probably drink anyway) can sit around playing control freak, sexual predator or plain nutjob

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 06/04/2012 - 12:23

NOAAUK:

Thirty years sober after a long, difficult bout of drinking is impressive anywhere. One not need to be attending AA to be grateful about any length of sobriety. It makes no difference how long I was dependent on alcohol. If you don't give a monkey's ass about my sobriety then I feel no compulsion to answer your questions.

AA is not my cult. I don't attend meetings, sponsor anyone, go to jails or prisons seeking out prospects, spout Big Book text or AA slogans (unless the topic of any given thread specifically points to one of those things).

By the way, you are endorsing another sick satanic cult yourself by spouting Matthew 24:11 - "And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray." (American Standard Version). Christianity, and all that it encompasses within its mind manipulation, fear-mongering, and shame and guilt building, is an earlier offender in this game by about 2,000 years. So take your Matthew and your Christianity and your exclusivity and re-think your position on cults. You have quite a lot to answer for yourself, my friend.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian