160,000 Alcoholics in the UK told to go to Rehab and Alcoholics Anonymous or loose benefits
In a surprising announcement at an Alcoholics Anonymous event in Parliament, Mr Duncan Smith broke many traditions in Alcoholics Anonymous by actively seeking prospects for AA and not using "attraction, not promotion" and definitely not putting "principals before personalities." The problem of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous and its illogic are starting to invade the UK at an alarming rate.
It's either the drink or the dole: Go into rehab or lose benefits, alcoholics and drug addicts told
By James Chapman, Political Editor
PUBLISHED: 23:09 GMT, 22 May 2012 | UPDATED: 23:41 GMT, 22 May 2012
Drug users and alcoholics are to be forced to enter treatment or face losing out-of-work benefits, Iain Duncan Smith will announce today.
The Work and Pensions Secretary will reveal that 160,000 dependent drinkers are in receipt of one or more of the main welfare handouts, with large numbers having been claiming for a decade or more.
Around 80 per cent of Britain’s estimated 400,000 ‘problem’ drug users are also claiming.
Sources said that the new universal credit, which is replacing all existing out-of-work benefits from next year, will be used to introduce contracts with addicts that would require them to seek treatment or see their payments halted.
In a speech tonight to an Alcoholics Anonymous event in Parliament, Mr Duncan Smith will say the change to universal credit will be used to dramatically switch the support that is currently on offer from ‘passive’ to ‘active’ intervention.
‘The outdated benefits system fails to get people off drugs and put their lives on track,’ he will say.
‘We have started changing how addicts are supported, but we must go further to actively take on the devastation that drugs and alcohol can cause.
‘Under universal credit we want to do more to encourage and support claimants into rehabilitation for addiction and start them on the road to recovery and, eventually, work.
Getting people into work and encouraging independence is our ultimate goal.
‘Universal credit will put people on a journey towards a sustainable recovery so they are better placed to look for work in future, and we will be outlining our plans shortly.’
More...
Jail for £65k benefits cheat who hid £100k windfall ... and claimed again while awaiting sentence
Ex-England footballer, 58, dubbed 'the new Bobby Moore' is £9,000 benefits cheat living under curfewAn analysis by the Department for Work and Pensions illustrates the scale of Britain’s drug and alcohol problem.
Almost 40,000 people who claim incapacity benefits have alcoholism as their primary diagnosis.
Of these, 13,300 have been claiming for a decade or more. Each year, there are one million alcohol-related violent crimes and 1.2million alcohol-related hospital admissions.
A DWP source said universal credit would make it far simpler to monitor a claimant’s history and identify danger signs of alcohol or drug addiction.
‘Universal credit will flag up key things addicts do – like applying repeatedly for crisis loans, for example,’ the source said.
We will be making people sign a claimant contract which will require them to do everything they need to do to get a job.
‘Nine times out of ten, a job centre adviser will know or suspect when addiction is a problem.
‘People will then be told they need to go to Alcoholics Anonymous or another treatment programme, and shown the evidence that those who do engage can get better.
‘It’s about trying to break a cycle that means people simply aren’t going to get into work without the right support.’
Local authorities have been invited to pilot key elements of universal credit.
It will replace means-tested benefits paid to people of working age, all tax credits and housing benefit, consolidating about 11million claims into eight million.
The credit is designed to end perverse incentives not to work or take on more hours because benefits are withdrawn as incomes increase.
Read more:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148449/Its-drink-dole-Go-rehab-...
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Comments
NoAAUK
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 23:39
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I'm fuming reading this. I
I'm fuming reading this. I will have to take it in when I can think more clearly. But it is time anti steppers in the UK organised a serious stance against the cult in the UK. As I said in a previous post a email containing links to anti AA wesites ie OP, Stinkin Thinkin Archives, More Revealed and selected anti AA videos needs to go out to ALL UK Members of Parliament including Prime Minister David Cameron.
The UK, inparticular England is the place to stop this cult in its tracks.
For the Brits on this Forum it is finally time to do more than just exchange unplesantries with the stepper infiltrators, it is time for some serious organised resistance to counter attack this stepism threat. This is heathen England for Gods sake
Its time to get seriously ORGANISED
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
NoAAUK
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 23:59
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It really is time to get some
It really is time to get some kind of anti AA march organised in London. An AA event in parliament for fucks sake (the language is VERY appropriate in this case). How serious can things get in the UK.
WELL spotted JR
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
avogadno
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 00:08
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This is extremely coercive!
This is extremely coercive!
Without the "right" support??
I really hope that this gets exposed. OK, I can admit for the sake of the employers that it is fair that they require that workers are sober, at work anyway. If they have drinking problems, and require sobriety to keep their job then fine. Tell them they need to get sober and give them a urine test. Hopefully a precedent can be set with this, it's appalling.
NoAAUK, Do they have something similar to the 1st Amendment in Britain?
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 00:17
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"NoAAUK, Do they have
"NoAAUK, Do they have something similar to the 1st Amendment in Britain?"
Ive no idea, that needs looking into. Ive just spoke to two of my mothers carers and read them out the 12 steps......they both agree that cult needs banning in the UK. I bet they never mentioned God at that blasted Parliament event.
Maybe this will prove to be a blessing in disguise and the whole stepper cult issue can be bought to the UK publics attention. Finally get TV programs like BBCs Panorama and ITV's Dispatches to deal with the issuse broadcast to the Nation. This is not the US, our Prime Minister does not say "God bless the UK" when addressing the Nation.
Stepims has NO place in Engalnd whatsoever and must be EXPOSED and DRIVEN OUT
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Jesus-is-Fraud
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 00:38
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This is the best thing ever......
Good - about time too..... the welfare junkie state...
"Get off your dead beat junkie arses and get a fucking job you mongrels..."
Piss in a jar or eat stale bread and water.
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 00:52
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Yes JIF
Yes JIF
"Get off the drugs and get a fucking job you mongrels"
Thats what the Government and the Nation want. But stepism is NOT about getting a job Its about holding hands and chanting in meetings and saying things like " They told be... I want what they've got...I owe it all to AA" over and over again (not to mention those bloody character defects, imaginary or otherwise). Old timer, all knowing, stepper guru's specifically advise people NOT to get a job as it will intefere with your meeting attendance and give you money for booze, drugs or whatever.
The British Governement and British Public are unaware of the true nature of Stepism. If they knew it was a religious cult it would be throw out of the Treatment Centres and possibly banned alltogher.
I even had an argument with one bloke who declared AA was NOT 12 Step???????......most people over here have no idea of the true nature of Stepism. It would not survive in the UK if the truth were universially known.
The British people would NOT except the 12 Steps as a treatment for Substance misuse if they knew they existed
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
btnben
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 00:39
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No Avo
We don't have a constitution...lol In the past, whenever we got pissed at people, we cut their heads off...lol
Separation of church and state is not in the 1689 Bill of Rights, although disbarment of Catholics becoming monarch is...lol. No papist Kings and Queens here...lol
We're a pretty non-religious lot, but any decisions where church and state conflict are made on an individual basis (I think) with specific legislation.
As far as sending all of these alcoholics to AA who don't want to be there? You never know - could be a blessing in disguise. AA in the UK has about 35,000 members (I saw on the OP letters recently). Add 160,000 long term drinkers to that few and the results could be unexpected, to say the least.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
JR Harris
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 02:49
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Has anyone calculated the cost of this action in the UK?
This proposed action will immediately cause an influx of 160,000 people into rehab. At the low end of 20k per Rehab visit that would be at a cost of $320,000,000 (320 MILLION) in the first year. Who is going to pay for this? Are there going to be any "preferred suppliers" of these rehab services?
This entire idea seems like a ploy by the recovery industry cartel to boost sales of rehab beds and line the pockets of rehab owners.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
btnben
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 02:52
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It's probably all piss and wind JR
That's the way government works here these days. They make a lot of noise, but actually do bugger all.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 06:00
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Ben AA are holding events in
Ben AA are holding events in Parliament, I don't call that piss and wind, these people have to be stopped.
Ive just spent 3 years in MM being told "its counterproductive to 'bash AA.' How much longer is this silence and none activity going to go on?
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 06:06
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They've got to be stopped.
They've got to be stopped. Emailing ALL UK MP's will start to make some wonder about AA. I bet there was fuck all mentioned about the 12 steps at that cooercive event.
I bet it was SERIOUS deceptive promotion. These stepper deviants wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the.....well I'm not going to mention that word agian....Jesus might get excited
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
avogadno
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 03:17
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I can calculate the change
I can calculate the change in my purse, that's abuot it... I bet the employees with have to pay.
Insurances?
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
btnben
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 03:04
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Arbeit macht frei
Here's a similar article from the Guardian (more liberal press)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/22/jobseekers-alcohol-drug-ad...
IDS has swallowed the koolaid
'It is understood that the work and pensions secretary will not make a formal announcement on Wednesday of the powers that will be handed to Jobcentre Plus staff. Duncan Smith wants to use the event to focus on what he regards as the positive work AA does in helping to treat alcoholism.
A government source said: "Iain wants to focus on the brilliant work Alcoholics Anonymous does in changing people's lives. He really wants to encourage people who have drink problems to go to AA for treatment. It will transform their lives and will help them into work."'
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Jesus-is-Fraud
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 03:43
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Actually I am not that keen on FORCED attendance at AA
But it's MOSTLY brainwashing bullshit - after all I was the one who gave Bill Wilson his divine guidance.
But but, I had forced attendance at AA and NA meetings for a decade or more....
Like AA is an evil religious cult, BUT because I worked my program so fucking hard, the 12 steps and everything to absolute detail and in huge volume, and I also did in part about 15 other 12th step fellowships, mostly NA and ACOA and SAA and all that... well these "resources" and all the tapes and therapy and other material that I harvested and collated, was of a HUGE help.... and because I did it all so thoroughly it also became apparent - when dealing with family of origin issues, what a toxic crock of shit the AA 12 steps of recovery actually are.
Follow this with like it is BAD and it is very dysfunctional.
However, when one takes on AA the corporation - this is where one finds out that is an organised crime gang - just like the religions. They feed people shit and manipulate them, and it's just a grand scam. Hidden books, slave labor, unquestioning stooges as trusted servants, selling the scam of the corporation.
But it's not all bad, and MAKING people go into therapy and self help groups etc.. is a great idea.
It may actually help the healing of the global community in a real way.
That the drug fucked culture is bullshit and there are FAR better ways to live, instead of hand outs for drugs on the welfare state.
It's a GREAT thing.
Of course there may be those who say "Oh the failure rate" of SOME invalidates the worth for the majority - because if we do not act to give people a hand up, then they will act to drag us down.
It's not a matter of a few percent per thousand, our entire civilisation is collapsing under drug use.
It's rotting from within.
This is a good thing.
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 06:13
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So you mean God is going to
So you mean God is going to sort it all out for mankind provided we go to 12 step meetings?
If God was going to sort everything out for us, why did God put us on the Earth in the first place, why didn't God do away with the Earth bit and just create us straight to Heaven?
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
justme
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 16:04
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Dear Jesus!
So, you got all that help and it helped you so much that now you're all grown up and actually KIND to people and treat people with RESPECT?
Did it help you that much?
Congratulations. I hadn't noticed.
avogadno
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:10
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lol, Had just got done
lol, Had just got done reading that Ben. I can't say how many times I have thought you were adding a different link to youtube. All this time and it was an addition to your signature!
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
btnben
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:17
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Duplicate
.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
btnben
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:12
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That's fucked up!!!!
LOL
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
JR Harris
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:14
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Where are the 160,000 Rehab beds going to come from in the UK?
This entire story appears to be a lobbying effort of some Rehab or Rehabs to expand or grow a customer base. I suggest we follow the money on this one because I can see at least 320 MILLION lining a special interest groups pockets real quick. I also see needed medical attention being funneled off of the real diseases such as cancer and put in ridiculous babysitting at Rehabs.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 09:40
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Now Ive calmed down this may
Now Ive calmed down I realise this may blow over. But it is an ideal time to launch a counter attack with this AA evening in Parliament. Maybe its now time to suggest that BBC's Panorama or ITV'S Dispatches do an undercover operation and see what AA is really all about.......and Broadcast it to the British Public!
Any of the Brits know if Mactiyre is still exposing scams?
The audacity of those creeps and deviants in holding an event in the British PARLIAMENT
They really have got serious ambition and BOTTLE I'll give 'em that...........not to mention infiltrators at the vey TOP.......never mind SMART UK
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
humanspirit
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 14:33
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NoAAUK
I actually wrote to Dispatches a couple of years ago suggesting that they do exactly that, but they obviously didn't take the idea up. Perhaps now would be the time to make another attempt?
What shocked me most though, was that I wrote to the National Secular Society about the scandal of faith-based 12-step rehab, and they were completely dismissive too!
JR - Either the Daily Mail was confused (wouldn't surprise me) or Ian Duncan Smith is too (wouldn't surprise me either). He is not actually saying that people must go to rehab or lose their benefits, which as you say is expensive and there's no way the government would pay for it; he is specifically saying that people should go to AA, as he apparently believes AA provides "treatment".
JR Harris
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 14:44
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Sounds like one more step towards mandatory AA in the UK
160,000 people being told to go to AA or loose benefits will give AA in the UK a big boost. I think Ian Duncan Smith is someone that should be watched very carefully.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 15:16
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"I think Ian Duncan Smith is
"I think Ian Duncan Smith is someone that should be watched very carefully."
Too right.
It most definitley one more step towards mandatory AA in the UK
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
humanspirit
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 15:44
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JR
I completely agree. On the other hand it could descend into a total farce. The UK government is waging an out-and-out war on anyone in receipt of state benefits, including the seriously disabled. (It is interesting that people in the UK all suddenly become feckless and lazy during times of high unemployment! I remember this exact rhetoric from the 1980s. Surprisingly they all become "hard-working families" in times of low unemployment and economic boom and whn the politicians want their votes!).
But back to the main point. If the government is going to tell people to go to AA specifically or they will have their already pitiful benefits cut, there will surely have to be some onus on the government to prove that AA works - which, as we all know, it doesn't. There will probably have to be more governmental and medical scrutiny of AA, which can only be a good thing.
And what will happen when all those people go for AA "treatment", as IDS sees it, and still don't manage to get sober, which is the most likely outcome? Combined with cuts in benefits, this will lead to a massive increase in homelessness, children taken into care, alcohol-related illnesses, and desperate addicts turning to crime, which will cost society much more through pressure on social and medical services.
There was a follow-up article in the Guardian to this later today:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/23/alarm-dock-benefits-alcoh...?
The most worrying thing about this is that minor officials in benefits offices are to make a judgement about who is an alcoholic or addict, when they have absolutely no expertise in this area and are under pressure to deny as many benefits claims as possible. I can't see the medical profession in the UK accepting that, and the government is already on collision course with them over other matters, with the threat of the first strike by NHS doctors (the vast, vast majority in the the UK) in its history.
JR Harris
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 15:55
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Wow -this could make Alcoholics Anonymous the poor mans religion
If his welfare reform goes through it appears that any poor people in the UK will be chanting Bill Wilson soon. Anyone that has a pint or two to relax will be singled out and told to go to AA. This is disturbing....
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
humanspirit
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 16:12
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JR
It is incredibly disturbing.
(Edit) And will also mean that those with serious addiction problems still won't be getting any proper help.
NoAAUK
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 15:27
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Everybody and I mean
Everybody and I mean EVERYBODY seems scared to be seen going against AA because of its public image, producing a damming email about AA and sending it to EVERY MP in the UK could be the place to start. One thing that would have to be mentioned is Frank Buchmans Nazi sympathies and the fact that MI5 once investigated the Oxford Group.
Crikey this cult leaves enough dirt in its wake, and there are ceratinly good diggers on this website. AA generates that much shit it should be easy to make a bit stick, just enough to get some high profile people to do a public investigation and open the flood gates.
The charities that fund the Treatment Centres also need targeting, I bet most of them don't know what the 12 steps are
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
JR Harris
Thu, 05/24/2012 - 05:40
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John Sutherland explains the problem in the UK
John Sutherland explains the problem in the UK with trying to mandate 160,000 people to Alcoholics Anonymous quite eloquently.
Read more of this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/24/iain-duncan-smith-al...
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Brett
Thu, 05/24/2012 - 15:17
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After they've been indoctrinated
into the bludgers cult religion, how will they ever be returned to being productive, WORKING, members of society. The one thing membership of this flawed fellowship can guarantee is unemployment. Have a look around your average meeting, a greater bunch of spineless, bludgeing slackos you'll never find. Draft 'em, give 'em a ak47, a bit of training & send 'em to Afganistan, once they get a bit of senseless violence in their lives they'll come good.
Brett
NoAAUK
Fri, 05/25/2012 - 01:42
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"into the bludgers cult
"into the bludgers cult religion"
Thats the crucial point, this is proposed coecion on a grand scale into CULT RELIGION. Where the 12 steps mentioned at that AA event in Parliament?
And we all know All Knowing In touch with God stepper gurus always tell newcomers NOT to get a job, it interferes with meeting attendence (the main point in stepism) and gives people money for booze.
Is Smith a stepper doing his twelth step on a National scale or is he just another UK citizen who has absolutley NO idea about AA whatsoever?
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11