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Mon, 05/21/2012 - 09:36
JR Harris. Massive.
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 23:38
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 09:59
Only joking. Everyone would be banned on Thursdays. I just can't get the hang of Thursdays...lol
I was talking to a member the other day about the different characters that have arisen over the first year. A male and a female is a good idea and, for me, the voices of reason for each gender would be Avo and Pennywise.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:25
Thanks Ben, just noticed you mentioned me and as being reasonable. After the AA mindfuck, I take that as a high compliment.
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:27
... since you reported me for sexual harassment...lol
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 10:22
Gunthar 2000, we could rely on him to remove any trolls!
Things are out of hand here just as they have been on several other sites in the past. The pro AA lot are given an inch and take a mile. They are here to disrupt and have no interest in discussing anything that has to do with recovering from addiction or the content of the Orange Papers. They are simply role playing and are a waste of space. I would urge you all to simply ignore their posts and stop responding.
I do feel it is about time three or four were banned.
If things stay as they are would people want to interact on a new forum that is more about supporting those who did not have a great time in AA which would not allow troll activity.I can set a forum up fairly easily if that would be of use. Im not in a position to add much content as I have a busy life but could get things going.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:14
"Things are out of hand here just as they have been on several other sites in the past."
This is most certainly true.
"The pro AA lot are given an inch and take a mile."
Most insane people do.
"They are here to disrupt and have no interest in discussing anything that has to do with recovering from addiction or the content of the Orange Papers."
They are highly effective at that. They will employ any tactic to suit their agendas. Some are just plain stark raving mad.
"They are simply role playing and are a waste of space."
I have been saying this for weeks now. I find it tiresome and boring to keep doing so.
" I would urge you all to simply ignore their posts and stop responding."
That is not going to be the case. Human nature simply doesn't work that way. Most sane people defend themselves when attacked or abused.
"I do feel it is about time three or four were banned."
You're preaching to the choir here brother.
"If things stay as they are would people want to interact on a new forum that is more about supporting those who did not have a great time in AA which would not allow troll activity."
I second this whole heartily. A forum is a place for members to engage in a manner that the group finds acceptable. Look at it this way, a forum is essentially a club and a meeting place. Let's say I started an OPF members gathering in my home. I have the right, and obligation, to provide a safe and appropriate atmosphere. I would also exercise my right, and duty, to remove any who abuse, threaten, or harass other members. I also have the right to expel those who attempt to affect the group's integrity and purpose, by constantly derailing any discussion. I would eject them from my home, and invite them to go fuck themselves. Removing an unwanted presence is NOT censorship, nor is it unconstitutional. It is any group's given right to screen and police its members. It is also obligated to provide a safe environment, and to enforce the standards of etiquette. This is something aa refuses to do.
" I'm not in a position to add much content as I have a busy life but could get things going.
Most of us are very busy, and we have other duties and obligations to attend to. It is the function of the group as a whole to build the forum. Thanks for the post mfc66uk.
Go ahead, enjoy yourselves - it's getting late, much later than you think.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 09:46
But it goes for everyone, not just select people. It seems that it is fine to be abusive, rude or anything else, depending on which side you are on... That's not right. As someone who routinely somplains that I derail, you overlook that I respond to someone's question. What am I then considered the derailer?
I think everyone would practice principles before personalities and not care who is making the post but focus on what it says... There is a lot of projection that takes place here that shouldn't.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 09:49
Fuck off. No-one wants you here. And if I hear that principles (what fucking principles?) before personalities drivel again I'm going to hit something...lol
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:28
But look at this. This response is entirely driven by which side a person stands on the AA line. Bullying is allowed if it is against an AA. By the same token, if Massive didn't like what she experienced, she should go. But, Orange says all POVs are welcome so no one should have to go.
Like it or not, this forum shows the wisdom in that step - for anyone. You've demonstrated my point perfectly.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:32
This response is totally driven by the fact that you continually spout AA bullshit on an anti-AA site. I'm not trying to bully you - I'm trying to get you to fuck off - it's clear. You castigate massive for going to AA meetings and speaking her mind but think you have the right to do it here? You can try, but expect ever growing opposition. People are just pissed off with you. Why won't the message sink in?
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:39
Save your effort, Ben. I DO have a right to be here per the person that started the forum. Massive goes to AA meetings and then comes to complain about when there is nothing making her go at all. It's just a contradictory behavior that could be aoided with a simple choice. I couldn't care less what she says but it is a situation she could control and the emotiona upset se gets from it. I just think it would make things more idfficult for her husband, who has chosen to go to AA meetings. The small positives she posts about are outweighed by the negatives.
But thank you for admitting you are just being abusive to an AA in hopes that she will leave. What makes you different from JIF and his perceived behavior?
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:05
Yet another lame attempt at playing the victim. This tactic of passive - aggressive robo trolling is transparent. There are no principles before personalities here. In case you haven't noticed, this is not your beloved nazi inspired, fascist death worship cult of aa. We do not practice magical thinking, automatic writing, necromancy, or chanting. We do not endorse wilsonism.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:30
You are absolutely right, Dolson, and I can't think of a better place where p before p should be practiced. If you think about it, it isn't steppism. It's just life. It's prbably practiced in every board room just as a matter of good business.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:34
They don't exist.
I can see the steam coming from your neck all the way across the pond.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:55
I disagree with this, mfc66uk. Just last night I responded to a question posed by gigi that was asked in earnest, without rancor or bias. It remains to be seen whether this interchange will come back to bite me, but I continue to search for good-faith discussion of topics rather than having to spend so much time defending my freedom to be here. Differences in points of view are not so disconcerting once one puts down all the flags and armor. We are, after all, each members of the family of man.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:09
I did, too. One to Patti regarding my own efforts at safety in AA. No response.
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 11:01
Gunthar, Harris, Massive, Orange
It is a big job!
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 11:37
While the banning of certain individuals would solve the problem temporarily, as we have seen they just come back as new reincarnations under a new username and perhaps a new IP address. Banning by IP address has its problems, mainly that many people on the wire belonging to that subnet are banned also because depending upon your ingress into the Internet, many people may be using the same IP and they will all be banned at the same time. With that said.....
Unfortunately people will always be confronted by the hard core 12 Step member who will "go to any lengths" to protect the hunting grounds and unlimited supply of prospects they want to indoctrinate into the cult. When you analyze their reason for them being here, it always boils down to the same thing, they are afraid that what we are saying will prevent people from attempting to join AA. You will encounter these types in real life no matter how hard try to avoid them. The best way to help people to combat the relentless onslaught of slogans and illogical logic is to give them the framework to combat it. The trolls we have all have slightly different agendas and they are very obvious to anyone that looks. People will read the entries of these people on the Orange Papers Forum and will learn from them.
While it is true we are "maybe" training super AA prospect hunters, most prospect hunters have not advanced to this degree and the average prospect hunter is not as advanced as our trolls and they would never come to the Orange Papers for training, that is done in Sponsorship groups. With that said, the people that come onto the Orange Papers forum will learn the various different personalities of the AA prospect hunter and be given the tools to combat them, because most of them aren't this advanced and can easily be removed from their lives by the logic we explain to them.
Keep it up, it only teaches all of the possible rebuttals to the coercion of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous and we couldn't amass these tools without the trolls.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 08:32
One nice thing about trolls is that they help generate key words to make OP most searchable.
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 11:48
For sure they will come back but then just ban them again! You don't automatically get the right to post on here, you have to be accepted by the moderator which takes a day or two, which would slow them down. If anyone tries to consistently derail threads then kick them off, don't piss about giving the benefit of the doubt. I have not read a single thing from any of the trolls worth reading and generally skip over their crap, but I'm pissed off that almost every thread goes off topic as a result of endless, purile posts by one or more of those muppets. This site becomes impossible to navigate when there are these kinds of posts which does rather ruin it.
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 12:18
Take one current example that we are discussing, the sexual inventory. Because of its name, people automatically assume it has to do with seedy sex, but actually the way the AA program is set up, it is about the prospects interactions with their spouse, boyfriend/girlfriend or one night stand and can not be isolated from the the AA program of confession from the other parts of fear and resentment, because they are mutually inclusive. Is it weren't for the trolls and we just talked about it among ourselves, we would never have gotten to the level of detail we did on the post. there would be nobody giving rebuttals to what we are saying, so we wouldn't delve as deep as we go. This can be shown where it was linked to the Big Book, the various sexual inventory worksheets used by other people following the 12 Steps and even Clancy's 7 Questions. If it weren't for our trolls, we never would have delved this far into the problem. The trolls attempted the "its not AA/GSO material" and "it doesn't happen in my group", but the rebuttals for these attempts at deflection were defined and examples given. The average prospect hunting Sponsor would not be able to face this type of logic and would abandon the hunt for the prospect that uses it against them and try for the less informed prospect, its in the Big Book:
"Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once." BB p.96, Working With Others
"One of our Fellowship failed entirely with his first half dozen prospects. " BB p.96, Working With Others
"Search out another alcoholic and try again. " BB p.96, Working With Others
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 13:03
Great comment JRH!
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 13:30
Someone should!! Anyone, please. It's again turning into another same old same old Marietta show. Danny will be back in a minute, just when you think it can't get any worse. I'm off - Nite folks. Roll on the new forum...lol
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 17:29
The longest lasting forums on the web are moderated forums. Those which aren't moderated usually close down eventually. That said, it's a terribly difficult job and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 17:43
I know of one site that has had no moderation in the almost 14 years of its existence. It has well over 8700 members and is going strong. A very respected good friend of mine has her own blog and facebook site also has a radio show with as many as 15000 members circulating all three venues and she refuses any attempt at moderation.
So please justme let it known that there are many sites and blogs that abhor moderation of any kind and thrive very well.
If you would stop your fighting (oh!! I know your not) and get on with what you came here for. I am sure you will find it rather educational if not spectacular around here.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 17:54
Trisha ... Yes, I have a website (forums) for artists, short story and essay writers, and poets. It's a moderated site. It's been online since 2004.
Yes, I'm well aware that some people prefer unmoderated sites.
No, I'm not fighting with anyone. I'm a pacifist.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:20
Hi justme, I'd like to check out your site. Can you message me a link or post it?
Wed, 05/23/2012 - 17:17
I'd like to invite you and several others to my site, however, I'm making an attempt at remaining anonymous at the moment. If I did send you a link, I would hope you'd keep my identity private. I have nothing to hide.... I just felt like posting anonymously for a change. Thank you for your interest. Maybe sometime soon I'll send you a link.
The private message system on this site seems to use email, right?
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 10:31
"Hi justme, I'd like to check out your site. Can you message me a link or post it?"
Ditto. If you wish not to post a link publicly here, PM it on over to me.
avagadno, I think you are pretty fair and smart and cool also, already told you that before. Just because I think some anti AAs are waay over the top and I question you on some of your posts doesnt mean i dont like to read what you have to say. I should never bring religion into the mix but i cannot refrain myself seeing sometimes I need to use it for a comparison. Sorry for that. This site gets me pretty riled up sometimes. At least something does.
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 11:33
Why would we want to ban any of these trolls? I get a kick every time I check in here and see 40-50 posts (and that only is on the threads I happen to look at) by Marietta/Clara/Becket EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY!!
That is fantastic! Very deserving. Keep on rotting away here on the Orange Forum. Recoveryism is such an interesting topic, I'm sure the excitement becomes almost unbearable every time we type our username and password.
Don't ever leave Trolls, you all deserve to be here.