Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?

Submitted by AntiDenial on Sat, 05/19/2012 - 17:15

The safety problems in AA and NA are starting to be getting more attention!

Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?

Written by Laura Tompkins May 17th 2012

How many steps are there? Twelve, right? Wrong. There are Thirteen. "Thirteenth-stepping" is a euphemistic term used among members of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to refer to people (particularly men) who target new, more vulnerable members (typically women) for dates or sex.

Previous research suggests that women frequently experience sexual harassment in 12 step meetings.

Just the fact the term "thirteenth-stepping" exists serves as a warning.

Since thousands of convicted felons are mandated to AA by the US courts, this warning must be heeded.

Entire article-

http://pacificpalisades.patch.com/blog_posts/are-you-safe-in-an-alcoholi...

Comments

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:48

Have fun with it AntiDenial. Just like I said, just because somebody visited AA and murders someone, in your mind this means AA is responsible. Your thought process is insane.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:18

But Anti isn't the only one. Look at recent remarks about Mary Kennedy and Jeffrey Dahmer. He went to one meeting and was declared by her as a member. Mary Kennedy was in AA for 5 months prior to her death (and sober from booze) and despite years of psych help, one poster bet AA was all she knew. It amazes me the lengths people will go to in order to paint AA badly in any light.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:35

Anti

"What about the people who are now 6 foot under,"

Thats why stepism isn't funny.

I don't know how people dare come on a website like this and admit they are members and truebelievers of such a sick twisted, yet still laughable BS cult......I'd be ashamed

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:59

Yeah between passing the basket and the lords prayer. The least you could do is be original, NoAAUK.
That story has already been passed around here about a thousand times.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:40

Trish

Theres nothing original about AA. Its just the same BS repeated over and over again week in week out, year in year out. now century in century out.

The same old "They told me.....I want what they've got.....character defect speech

Nothing original. When youve been to one stepper meeting youve been to 'em all

Does anyone remember where that stepper bingo game is on the OP....perhaps we could all have a game

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:28

NO AAUK you are right. When people are committing a crime a gun or knife is often used to force people to raper them or rob them. A couple who had been mandsted to NA, slit the throat of an 80 year old woman last year. They were crack heads. They had multiple parole violations, yet their probation officers let them stay out of jail. She was such a sweet lady too. People got fired after that in the department of corrections.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:28

A.D.,
It was about damn time, that there were consequences for the people in official & professional capacity, the probation officers to lose their jobs, they are lucky to not have charges against them. I doubt that particular probation department is going to continue any interaction with AA, NA & the anons. I hope. Stop sentencing, parole & probation conditioning any & all criminals to AA or NA, stop sentencing them to an unqualified group of lay people. But ultimately, it is AA & NA s responsibility to shut down this knowing participation & actually causing & trolling this participation. I mean, WTF.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:41

I don't think that AA would do that as it wishes to turn away no one that wants to recover. I am for not mandating people to AA because I think you need to want it for yourself, and we get people there whose crimes had nothing to do with alcohol.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:18

Clara

“I think you need to want it for yourself”

If God will miracle away your obsession to drink alcohol provided you do the steps and go to AA, it shouldn’t matter whether you want it or not.

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:28

They are worth mentioning here? Anti, you are starting your unreasonabe posts again. Your ends don't justify your means.
This is your whole premise, if someone attends AA or NA even if it was once, then AA/NA is responsible. You really have it out for these rograms.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

genejoe's picture

genejoe

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:57

I know many women who went to AA and found male sponsors and immediately got into a sexual relationship with the male sponsor. That was the end of their marriages. And, I do not know of any of these 'sponsor' relationships that lasted longer than a year. What a shock for the women to loose both their husbands and the 13 stepping sponsor.

The crime that AA commits is their refusal to address 13 stepping as a problem. AA willingly allows people who they know are in crisis to be put into harms' way. This is the exact same attitude that the Catholic church has had with priests sexually abusing children. And just like the Catholic church, AA will never address the problem until law suits begin to take away their money.

genejoe

The Invitation, by Oriah Mountain Dreamer

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:30

genejoe,
exactly, AA will finally act when it starts costing them money for the abuse & damages they have allowed to occur. Like the Church, they have been informed, over & over by members & they sweep it under the rug & don't give a shit, they just don't give a shit.

patti

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:27

Patti

When it does finally come out there's going to be far far more cases of sexual abuse in AA than the Catholic Church. It will cost AA all its money

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:49

The Church doesn't give a shit, but it does pay out. If you want an AA payout, get vocal, get visible, and get in line.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:55

Genejoe, the abuse from sponsors is really scary in AA and NA. You hear of so many stories of families being destroyed by Alanon and AA/NA members trying to alienate them from their families. Then they go and take advantage of them sexually, financially and emotionally. Chew them up and spit them out! At that point they have burned bridges with thie spouses and other family members.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:42

13 stepping and having a male sponsor to two different animals. I have had my sponsor for 5 years, and he and his wife have been a dream come true for me. It all comes down to motive.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:42

Patti, Insurance companies that insure AA I believe are being hoodwinked by AA. I saw one insurance company that says they handle only level 1 sexual offenders. Dothey know that level 3 violent sexual predators are being sentenced to the meetings they are insuring? Does the insurance companies of the churches aware of the demographic in the church basements? There was a case recently that am an pulled agun on another man in a AA meeting accusing him of dealing drugs to the memebers!

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:53

Yeah, insurance companies will charge more for high risk situations & a church that participates in renting to a high risk group. And insurance companies are businesses they do not care if AA has a message from God, blah, blah, blah or about a church being a church, etc. If you are going to maybe cost them money, then you are going to pay & if you are really going to cost them money then you are going to get dropped, they don't want the business. Ultimately AA s demise is going to be about money, lawsuits, being out progressed by a pharmaceutical & 3rd party organizations like churches due to insurance premiums & what they cost no longer allowing them the affiliation of being a tenant. I don't know if the insurance companies know about the high risk groups they are insuring in churches but I would think they will become aware & act upon it when this situation starts costing them money.

patti

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:01

Would you slow down and actually read what you are writing. You are over extending yourself.
AA's demise...LMAO!!!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:46

There are plenty of felons that go to church. Insurance companies do not "insure AA." Could you disclose the insurance company as I would like to know more about this? Insurance companies would have no way of controlling that. We own shopping centers and we have liability insurance and other kinds of insurances, but we cannot control who patronizes the businesses that rent space from us.

This doesn't ring true at all.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:52

Clara,
Insurance companies insure Churches, the buildings, the people inside. If having convicted felons meeting regularly in the church basement for an AA meeting is considered high risk behavior & could cause potential pay outs for the insurance company, they are going to raise the premiums for the church, if an AA meeting is costing a church money via higher insurance, AA will get kicked to the curb where it belongs anyway.

patti

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:57

Some Insurance Companies are already dropping churches in Florida they consider high risk. Maybe it is because the addition of AA/NA/CA and sex anonymous meetings!

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:47

Again, this would be conjecture on the part of the poster. I fell confident that if an AA/NA/ CA or SA meeting were creating an issue that would cause a church to lose it's insurability, the Church would ask them to move on. And it can.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:28

...

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:54

And eventually maybe churches will kick AA to the curb & then AA will no longer have an affiliation with mainstream religions & their buildings & that will not be a good thing for AA.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:51

"Maybe it is because the addition of AA/NA/CA and sex anonymous meetings!"

MAYBE. Why not find out the truth rather than giving incendiary voice to conjecture?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:14

A.D.,
Right fucking on! & may this continue. Such an insane group as the original AA & the creation of a few madmen should have never gotten its foot in the door of any church & now that they may be the reason for insurance companies dropping churches, they will get kicked to the curb & gutter. No church is going to chose AA, etc. over saving its own ass & having insurance. So glad to hear of this, thank God or the universe or the power of goodness or whatever, but this is awesome, awesome!

patti

massive's picture

massive

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:10

About 5 or 6 years ago A church at Fairfax & fountain threw out all 12 step meetings. They were just allowed back. The Rodeo Meeting was thrown out of Beverly Hills Years ago and I hear it has to leave its current location in Westwood where they use UCLA parking.

Another place called the Senior Center in Mid City area threw out all meetings for many years.

Massive

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:40

Some churches are just getting totally fed up with theses AA and NA members. They are finding it harder to find places because of there incresingly poor behavior. Also mandating insurance is costing them more. Not all churches do, but more are starting to.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:44

What is "madating insurance..."? I think it is misleading to suggest that AA groups pay for insurance. They pay rent for space. That may be contributed to insurance, but that has nothing to do with them.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:57

Clara,
stop it, you understand what is being communicated here, just stop it.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:01

No. I am asking for real information, Patti. I have asked in three different locations in this country about additional or specific insurance, and no one can back this up. I even called an insurance agent that is a member. He would be all over it if it were true. What I understand is ambiguous information is being put forth. If I had posted that, you'd be all over me and screaming, "LIAR!"

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:52

Work on fixing what you think is wrong, not complaining about what has already happened that you had no control over. That's a waste of energy.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:58

That waste of energy would be the same as minding our own business!

patti

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:11

Also I have read that more and more churches are demanding liability Insurance from AA/NA groups to have meetings. This is making it more of a challenge for them to find meeting places. They do usually succeed though. I know of one church that has Sex Anonymous meetings and Boy Scout meetings at their church in Ormond Beach Florida! WTF?

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:49

Again, could you perhaps disclose some of these churches? The reason I question this is that no one speaks for AA and I doubt that anyone would have the authority to "insure a group." Could some more information be shared so as to confirm the veracity of these claims?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:05

Again- I asked you not to respond to my post and harass me. I am not going to play your little sick head trip. Go play with someone elses head. PLEASE leave me the hell alone.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:22

...anybody what to do. if you don't like the opinions you receive in response to posts, please go back to where you have been for the last month.
So long as you express your disproportionate truth concerning AA, I am sure all of us will continue rebutting.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:28

Are you talking about your other online identities, or the two known identities of Marietta/becket or Clara?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:00

No one is harrassing you, but I don't see how anyone has the authority to purchase insurance for AA or a group. I am asking a legitimate question because I wouldn't want anyone thinking of putting together a group would have to come up with that. It wouldn't matter what the group is, Anti. If what you are saying is true, then it would be true for SMART, SOS, Lifering or any other self help group.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:11

OMFG- your complete ignorance is unbelievable. Go ask your AA higher ups. I am not going to explain your questions. If you do not know that AA groups need their own liability policies to rent from certain churches and other facilities shows your stupidity at it's finest.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:37

It isn't stupidity, it is simply not my experience. Why not tell me a bit about it? I called on of the local gals that does a meeting at St. Francis on the Hill, and they don't have to. She also is a member at University Church, where there is nothing but a monthly contribution from the basket. Forty years in the fellowship in Atlanta, Dallas, parts of New Mexico... and she's never heard of it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Brett

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:08

volumes for it. In aust A.A N.A groups got the insurance covered thru their world serv offices or equiverlent. ya just need to register the meeting thru them & pay a 1 off fee of 100 odd bucks.

Brett

Brett

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:13

I've often thought about having a fall at a meeting & going down in a screaming heap, & yelling compo all the way to the bank. I wonder how that unconditional love bit 'ud go then.

Brett

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:29

I know Brett there are some really thick headed ones who state they did not have something happen in their group- how could it be? It is one of the most classic signs of narcissism. The world evolves around their little world. Go to AA websites and NA websites and search about obtaining needed insurance for 12 step meetings. True- not every group is covered. They are exposing themselves big time to being sued personally and the district being sued as well. How idiotic is it to think that churches etc. do not ever ask for insurance? Some people really live in La LA land. Also churches demand it ( some of them) because they do not want to pay additional insurance premiums to rent to Alcoholics Anonymous.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:40

You are just being asked which churches so some verification can be made. No one I have spoken knows of a group having to take out private insurance to holdd a meeting there. What would happen is a rider on the church's policy. But I'd like to know so I can learn from it. Surely you can name one itty bitty church?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:58

Why? I would never aid you in stalking other people Clara, sorry. Go find some other fool. It would be a rider on the church policy IF the church wants to foot the bill. Many do NOT. That is why there are SPECIAL policies for AA/NA meetings. Then the church requires that they be added to AA's policy as an additional insured. You think AA just gets a free ride all the time? Because AA/NA does get sued as well as churches it is a business matter that has to be dealt with if you want to rent from CERTAIN places.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:13

What did you just say, Brett? We have started new groups and we never did this. Can you provide me with a link?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:37

"Also I have read that more and more churches are demanding liability Insurance from AA/NA groups to have meetings."

Can you verify which churches are involved and what the terms are for the liability insurance? Where is a link to this "factoid" that can support your claim? Would like to have a look for myself, thanks.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 18:01

Sorry Becket- it is true. Dont you read on other actual PRO AA sites? They discuss this problem often and AA and NA websites discuss insurance issues as well.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

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