Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?

Submitted by AntiDenial on Sat, 05/19/2012 - 17:15

The safety problems in AA and NA are starting to be getting more attention!

Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?

Written by Laura Tompkins May 17th 2012

How many steps are there? Twelve, right? Wrong. There are Thirteen. "Thirteenth-stepping" is a euphemistic term used among members of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to refer to people (particularly men) who target new, more vulnerable members (typically women) for dates or sex.

Previous research suggests that women frequently experience sexual harassment in 12 step meetings.

Just the fact the term "thirteenth-stepping" exists serves as a warning.

Since thousands of convicted felons are mandated to AA by the US courts, this warning must be heeded.

Entire article-

http://pacificpalisades.patch.com/blog_posts/are-you-safe-in-an-alcoholi...

Comments

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:50

"No such checks exist within AA, where complete amateurs and untrained people are able to assume this position of personal power . . . "

I disagree that this is a "position of personal power". It should be a position of absolute equality, kinship and compassion, totally devoid of judgment or contempt or any temptation to belittle or "fix" anyone. If sponsorship and a 4th/5th are entered into on any terms other than this, "they're doin it wrong." A grab for power and prestige should never, ever enter into this scenario.

There is no need for anyone to hit back with "they do it all the time". My argument stands: "they're doin' it wrong".

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:53

Right on, Becket.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

teatotaler

Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:12

There is a power differential for newcomers. The idea of what SHOULD be, is not what IS. Children are starving in many places around the globe. That SHOULD NOT BE. However, it IS going on. Wishful thinking about SHOULD does not change REALITY.

"There's a new sheriff in town."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:44

I mention these members here because all of them have either no affiliation with AA/NA or are addicts/alcoholics. Yet they spend all day, every day trying to convince the world, they have a clue what is going on in AA. All one has to do is read what they post and you will see within the content it is nothing more then intellectual theoretical mumbo jumbo or at the very least plagiarized from others with direct experince.
JR has copied and posted more plagiarized exaggerated stories that it isn't funny anymore. He has himself convinced they are his stories now from experince.
Being a member of multiple anti-aa sites and reading what others have experience does not make you an expert. Just because your spouse went to AA doesn't make "YOU" an expert.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

humanspirit

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:09

You seem to have a lot of opinions as to why other people shouldn't be commenting on these matters, but how do you feel about it yourself?

Did you find doing your fourth and fifth steps helpful for you personally? Did this process help you to stop drinking? Who did you confess all your bad deeds to? Do you think that person handled you with sensitivity and insight? Did you find the experience cathartic, and did it help you to achieve a spritual awakening?

Btw, don't forget that steppism affects not just the alcoholic, but the whole family.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:13

You're not even an Alcoholic, now stop this before your therapist or psychiatrist catches you and puts you way again. Have they let you out because you got better or did your insurance dry up? The next steps are jails, institutions or death you know.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

flannigan

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:54

Please tell us all "what is going on in AA". Thanks in advance.

flannigan

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:00

Do you realize what this per cent means? 1 in 10 million. Are there really that many AA meetings in the world? Just asking.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:55

Your comment about does not have anything to do with my post.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

massive's picture

massive

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:03

NO AA is not safe Ever. Bring a body guard. Have your guard up always.

Massive

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:09

It really has come down to that. People should not alone without someone who can protect them.
Do not give your number out to strangers or get rides from strangers.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:53

You went to meetings for 36yrs. and still go today. Your husband still goes along with a lot of your friends. So please take your silly propaganda back to your site.
You are just as involved with AA as you have ever been. Nothing has changed, except your level of honesty.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:58

If you are a typical AA member, I don't want the serenity, honesty or EGO you have....

Thank-you for providing a prime example of the people found in the rooms of AA.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:59

JR

"Thank-you for providing a prime example of the people found in the rooms of AA"

They are all crackpots......... totally lost the plot, the lot of them. Theres more serenity in an air raid than a stepper

Its satans cult and satan don't deal in serenity

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

mfc66uk

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:37

It is one thing to be a member of a cozy little group in some quiet little backwater and quite another to go to a large city meeting which will have many people visiting and passing through who you have no contact with before. Both type of meetings are run in the same way with the same old traditions that are out of date. if you share in the may that many do in those big meetings you will end up with the wrong kind of attention sooner or later. The more vunerable you are the more likely someone will try and exploit you.

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:00

Laura Tompkins totally agrees with you as well. She writes about how damaging it could be people confessing to amateurs. Also, even though I am not Catholic, it is my understanding that the priest does not grill the person confessing. People go as they wish to confess what they want.

Who in their right mind would think it was a good idea to grill minors and adults about their sex lifes in AA? This totally shocks me that NA actually prints literature on the subject of talking to 12 step members about the sexual experiences etc. Just plain sick and dangerous. No wonder minors are being sexually abused by AA and NA members.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

humanspirit

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:07

You say: "Just plain sick and dangerous."

Absolutely. Nothing more to add.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:10

The position on sexual inventories in AA is that your behavior is between you and your higher power. I don't know anyone that was "grilled" about sex or even asked to discuss it. I will have to look into NA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:17

No, this is not true. You are supposed to share your sex inventory with another person per the 5th Step.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:37

No you don't!!!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:29

First off, you claim you don't represent the views of AA, so quit not following your own rules.

Second, show me ANY literature where it claims your sexual inventory or any other inventory is only between you and you higher power. You won't and that is because Step 5 tells you to, "Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs."

Go back to Step School and read up before you post again. besides, you already said you did yours with a priest.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:49

I will attempt to educate you. You don't even have to do a fourth step if you choose not to, you can choose your human being (if you want one) a priest or man of god beliefs was strongly advised at one time, many today use a therapist. I did not use an average AA person for my more intimate inventory, I used a professional.
JR since you are not an alcoholic nor ever have been a member of AA please refrain from making an ass out of yourself with the comments you post.
Thanks

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:40

The steps are a suggestion, but if you have questions on sexual inventories, read up on the fourth step. Page 70.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:41

I believe it says that God is the ultimate judge of your sex relations. That does not mean you are exempted from sharing your sex inventory with another person during the 5th Step.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:51

God or a Human. This is suggestive. It seems all AA folks know this except for the AA people here.....Hmmmmm??

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:55

Well, work the steps or die, so they say. But fine. For the sake of accurancy, the Big Book suggests that you share your sex inventory with a other person per the 5th Step. If you don't take this suggestion, you are not thoroughly following the path and might as well sign your own death warrant.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:58

This interpretation works for you and your cronies here. Hey do me a favor muzzle "loud mouth" as usual he is making you look bad.
Guy never even went to AA unless on a leash.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:57

I know how much Danny has, but not the current reincarnation of Trisha K. after Danny was banned. Lets hear you experience? If you even have any.....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:57

I agree that the BB is up to intrepretation, but the way it reads is "God alone can judge our sex situation. Counsel with persons is often desireable, but we let God be the final judge. We realize that some people are as fanatical about sex as others are loose. We avoid hysterical thinking or advice."

As I have said, I wasn't asked for lurid details and didn't disclose any. I don't know people that were.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:00

Your attention to accurate detail is comforting.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:03

I think you should go over to this site and explain the sexual inventory part of AA Clara, they are telling millions of people otherwise.

In order to do a thorough house cleaning you are going to take three inventories as outlined in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. The first Inventory is of your past and present resentments, called your resentment inventory.

The next inventory will be about fears, and all things that make you nervous, anxious or afraid.

The last inventory is of your sex conduct.

Begin by praying for willingness and an open-mind, also pray for all persons concerned with your writing. (ya, all of them!)

First list all your resentments in column 1 of the resentment worksheet. We complete column 1 first. All inventory worksheets are worked from top to bottom, and not from left to right. We do not move onto column 2 until column one is completed filled out.
Big book reading of the 4th step instructions.

Source: http://our12steps.com/4th-step-inventory-guide/

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:07

I don't know what you mean by "lurid details." I do know you are supposed to share who you hurt through sex.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

gigi

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:17

Correct. The BB is open to interpretation. One person may read that passage and determine that their sponsee need not share a sexual inventory at all. Or that the sponsee should seek professional assistance with that part of an inventory. Another person may read that passage and determine that a sexual inventory shared with an AA sponsor is absolutely vital. He may STRONGLY encourage such an inventory. The BB is open to interpretation. That's a big problem right there. There are no rules or guidelines or warnings or safety precautions or training or....in place to insure that people are doing the right and responsible thing in AA. Clara, I believe that you hit the lottery with your sponsor and your group. Truly, I am happy for you that that was your experience. Not everyone is so lucky. That's why there needs to be some accountability and why people who love AA need to step up and see to it that the inconsistencies and abuses don't continue. Even if it doesn't happen in your group.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:24

Thank you, Gigi.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:52

GIGI- In NA literature for teens it states in black in white to share with another member about their sex lives and any mixed feelings they might have etc. That is not a matter of interpretation. NA wants it, and they ask for it. Of course there are some that have the sense to tell them no way! Bbut it is reckless and dangerous practice to ask in the first place.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:56

AntiDenial they are responsible and can conduct themselves as moral human being. Your attempts to make NA members into monsters is despicable.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

gigi

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:12

It is most certainly reckless and unwise for young people to be encouraged to share anything of a personal-and especially-of a sexual nature with anyone in an NA or AA meeting.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

gigi

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:02

I believe you Anti Denial. I have absolutely no experience with NA or any of their literature. I was speaking solely about the interpretation of the BB. And I am well aware that AA sponsors do ask for sexual inventories. I did one myself...parts of it in a group setting (yes, Clara, a group setting) so I am not in any way trying to minimize the seriousness of this issue. I just think it's always fair to point out that not everyone does this.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:10

GiGi- I appreciate that. When there is so much minimization going on and so much at stake for minors and other vulnerable people in AA and NA, this particular request should not be watered down. Thanks for clearing that up!

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:06

It also doesn't mean that a sponsor won't claim that you need to discuss personal sexual components and the group as well. Because the meetings are un-chaperoned and sponsors don't have to answer to anyone they can employ whatever tactics and instructions they wish. And they do.

"Now about sex. Many of us needed an overhauling there. But above all, we tried to be sensible on this question. It's so easy to get way off the track. Here we find human opinions running to extremes - absurd extremes, perhaps. One set of voices cry that sex is a lust of our lower nature, a base necessity of procreation."

Why does Bill Wilson and the rest of the cultist regime that wrote the BB and had the gall to present it as treatment for a "disease", even bring up this topic? There are such things as boundaries, an important therapeutic measure discussed in psychology. Yet Bill and the gang try and break them down. If it has anything to do with the personal growth of an individual (as well as ANY other regret) it is up to them to bring it up and out in the open if they decide it is necessary. Bill was a sexual deviant that pushed his own faults onto everyone else that had symptoms of alcohol abuse.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:11

Avo, I have never heard anyone discuss their sexlife with a group. I have gone to many meetings in many different places and I can honestly say that the most someone might have said it that they were pregnant before married, didn't get married and had a kid, behave liked a slut, or had an affair with a married man. Those may just be the barest of general fact, but what Anti is alleging isn't what happens. It is up to you do disclose. When I did my fourth step, I was told that I could address the sex issue and put it in an envelop where it would be seen by no one unless I chose.

I'm sorry, but that part of Step 4 is being exploited by Anti in an unfair way. I wouldn't want anyone reading the forum to leave with that impression.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:14

The sharing of the sex inventory is not part of Step 4. It is part of Step 5.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:19

The SHARING of it, if a person so chose, would be a fifth step. Anti has been ranting about asking sexual inventories, which would be part of Step 4 in the BB.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:21

A sponsor often will ask a pigeon to share a sex inventory, albeit usually not with the entire group.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:29

Perhaps, and I'll be honest. I've seen some girls come in where I hoped that they WOULD be sharing with an older sponsor because they clearly were making relationship mistakes. But what I am hearing on the forum with reckless regard to this is that the sponsor is masturbating under the table at the disclosure, that it is some sort of voyuerism when that isn't the purpose of the step.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:33

Generally that does not happen. It probably has happened, but that is not the way I think it is supposed to work. I don't think anyone is saying that is the norm.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

gigi

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:20

It happens.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:14

They for sure get their rocks off hearing about it. Why the hell do you think Bill W et al came up with it in the first place to talk about sex lives vs addiction? To satisfy their sick minds. It could even account for the sex abuse as well. Taking sexual inventories, and then 13 stepping, sexual harrassment, sexual abuse and rape.See a connection......

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:22

We get it, you don't like AA. But all this stupidity is just to much. Bill died in 1970-71 over 40 years ago. None of us have a clue what Bill's character was. Bob died 15 years or so before Bill.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

AntiDenial

Sun, 05/20/2012 - 16:25

I think history shows us what a slimeball Bill W was and a pervert.

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

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