The safety problems in AA and NA are starting to be getting more attention!
Are You Safe in an Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting?
Written by Laura Tompkins May 17th 2012
How many steps are there? Twelve, right? Wrong. There are Thirteen. "Thirteenth-stepping" is a euphemistic term used among members of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to refer to people (particularly men) who target new, more vulnerable members (typically women) for dates or sex.
Previous research suggests that women frequently experience sexual harassment in 12 step meetings.
Just the fact the term "thirteenth-stepping" exists serves as a warning.
Since thousands of convicted felons are mandated to AA by the US courts, this warning must be heeded.
Entire article-
http://pacificpalisades.patch.com/blog_posts/are-you-safe-in-an-alcoholi...
Comments
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:39
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You wish it was a male issue but look at your behavior here....
Males are not your problem AntiDenial, trust me on that one.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:37
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Patti, exactly! You just can
Patti, exactly! You just can't say no to some one who is physically restraining you and beating or raping you! AA and NA are well aware of these dangers, and continue to turn a blind eye to the abuse. So it is good to see this article out there so more people can be informed.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
becket
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:23
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"You just can't say no to
"You just can't say no to some one who is physically restraining you and beating or raping you!"
Why the fuck NOT?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
causeandeffect
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:14
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Whaaaaa? Are you joking?
Whaaaaa? Are you joking?
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:47
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Sick Puppies! Exactly why you
Sick Puppies! Exactly why you want to stay away from the roooms of AA and NA! What do you do when they also pull a knife or a gun? What was the child to do in Georgia where the NA stepper molested her?
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:57
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Anti you have worn the Georgia story out....
Move on!!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
teatotaler
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:55
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Got a suggestion TK...
Why don't you move on and go to a meeting??? Isn't that where you're supposed to be, sharing your experience, strength and hope??? Do you need to call your sponsor or, perhaps, do "90 in 90"?
"There's a new sheriff in town."
AntiDenial
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 21:42
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Park Employees intimidated By
Park Employees intimidated By Narcotics ANonymous Meetings. Go figure! My area can relate to that!
http://nadaytona.org/2012/03/09/park-employees-intimidated-by-narcotics-...
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:42
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EXACTLY!!!!
Thank You!!!
becket, your response does not fit in with there propaganda. You are a helpless victim with no brain or will, when you arrive in the rooms of AA.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
JR Harris
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:45
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Speaking from experience Danny?
When will you get your brain and will back? On what Step? Did you skip any?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:22
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Other than 13 stepping in AA,
Other than 13 stepping in AA, their is much higher levels of sexual abuse in the rooms of AA and other violent acts. One sponsor had his faced slashed by a fellow member during a meeting. People have threatend people with baseball bats in meetings.The list goes on.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:33
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Higher levels than what, Anti
Higher levels than what, Anti? What is your basis for comparison? You discuss this quite often but you never give a basis for comparison or consider the hundreds of meetings that take place in equation.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 08:44
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I really do not care what you
I really do not care what you think Clara. I would greatly appreciate it if you would not respond to my posts, because I have nothing to say to you. Why do you not go derail other posts, and antagonize those that love to engage you day in and day out. I am not one of them!
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:52
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Anti, I respond to whatever
Anti, I respond to whatever posts I wish to, and you don't have to respond to them. It is an important thing to note to anyone ELSE reading the post that you offered nothing to compare with that could make what you said true. You are the one that painted me as a liar, and all I am asking for is something that gives some weight to your statements.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 09:36
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clara,
clara,
it's supposed to be a self help & support group and a safe haven, most meetings take place in church basements for God's sake. AA will not police itself, it will not heal itself. If abuse happened once, or a crime committed happened once, then measures most be taken to protect against it happening again. It just doesn't matter if 100 's of meetings are safe, if even one meeting is dangerous then something has to change. How many victims would matter, if there is only one victim out of 100's of members, then that victim is insignificant? Same premise with meetings, it does not matter the amount of danger, it's that the danger exists, AA has been informed & they are not keeping their side of the street clean. I mean, really, come on Clara, if you have a decent cell in your being, you have to admit this is a real issue, & any meeting or member being endangered is significant enough to act upon.
patti
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:54
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What does a church basement
What does a church basement have to do with anything, Patti? That is your usual matra when it has nothing to do with anything. There are hundreds of meetings taking place all over the world at any given time. I would say that most go on without a hitch.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:21
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Clara,
Clara,
you have to be aware that churches have represented safety & sanctuary for people & society for a long, long time. You have to know that. AA meetings are often in church basements, this indicates to the battered addict that it is a safe environment, its a CHURCH, a CHURCH, come on, you can't not understand the significance here. What gatherings wouldn't take place in a church basement? Lots of stuff, cock fights, swingers groups, dog fights, terrorist activity, prostitution, and on & on. Dangerous environments, walking down a ghetto street, especially @ night, hanging out in bars in rough neighborhoods with rough clientele, going to any kind of illegal fighting, cock, dog or people & so on & so on. A church is a safe haven, a SAFE HAVEN, AA meeting @ churches is a blatant indication that is a safe environment, and that's what meeting in church basements has to do with the lie that AA is a safe haven or environment. The solution is simple, if AA & NA are going to continue to troll the court system, the prison system, etc. they need to disclose @ the beginning of each meeting that the possibility exists that there are sentenced attendees including the paroled & probated & they won't be identified, but just like cigarettes come with warnings, so should AA. Just tell the truth, what's the problem just tell the truth & disclose the possible dangers of exposure. And again, how many people have to be hurt before it becomes significant, how many is acceptable to do something, to disclose the truth, to forewarn people that AA actively participates in convicted & parole felon being sentenced to attend. It just doesn't matter if most go on without a hitch, this is irrelevant, what matters is if even one person is harmed or endangered or abused, something has to change. And you know, you know that a lot more than one person has been deliberately abused & harmed & a lot of innocent children have been harmed & damaged. Wake up Clara & smell the coffee, for real.
patti
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:49
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Patti, I woke up and smelled
Patti, I woke up and smelled the coffee along time ago. I just laugh at your reference because you say in snidely at times but then try to give it a position of safety in another post. the lecture isn't necessary. It is just a play on your inconsistency.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:21
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Clara,
Clara,
I have consistently stated that AA should disclose any & all information pertaining to the safety of its members, I have consistently stated that AA should tell the truth. I am not aware if I can write snidely, what my writing should reflect is how frustrating & exasperating making a simple point is to you. You want to pretend that AA does not deliberately endanger its members including you, knock yourself out.
patti
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:53
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Patti, you make great
Patti, you make great analogies! I am sure the church in Ormond Beach Fl that has sex anonymous meetings are NOT telling all the youths groups that go there too. I mean you would not want to scare the congregation would you? Getting money in that basket is more important than minors safety.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:31
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Do you think that the church
Do you think that the church is keeping that information secret? Are the meetings on the same night? Is SA synonymous with pedophiles?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
teatotaler
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:01
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RE: Basis for comparison...
Hey, Clara, why don't you bring in some basis for comparison? That might be a good research project for you. Ever considered taking some surveys at meetings? How 'bout doing a longitudinal controlled study? But, nah. Everyone is just waiting with baited breath for your next EVASIVE pro-AA spin on things. I'm sure it'll be a real original. BTW, why aren't you at a meeting? Maybe you should do "90 in 90."
"There's a new sheriff in town."
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:14
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Anti, for someone who never had any affiliation w/ AA....
.....you seem to want to act as if you have. All of your accusations are second hand. Ok let's say you are by chance accurate with all of your stories. Do you have any idea how many meeting there are at any given time, thousands. All you are doing is cherry picking stories to fit your advocacy.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:17
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trisha,
trisha,
once is enough! once is enough! once is enough. If it happens once that is enough to do something to keep it from happening again, do the utmost to prevent it happening again. Do something. STEP UP!
patti
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:45
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Once is enough Patti! If only
Once is enough Patti! If only that was the case. It seems like there is a growing problem with different levels of crime in AA and NA. Including embezzlement from their own treasurers! The emotional abuse put upon the small children that are forced to sit and listen to addicts speak of their crimes and desires to commit suicide and even murder. The kids are treated like second class citizens. They are the collateral damage to the court mandating practice, and AA/NA encouraging minors of all ages to come to meetings to expand their own base.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:37
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Small children are in
Small children are in meetings due to their parents making the choice to bring them there. I don't think AA has a personal interest or stake in that, pus the meeting takes place in a park where children can go play with others while the parents meet.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:26
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AD,
AD,
out of all of AA's disgraceful & shameless behaviors interaction with children is the most reprehensible. AA, no blame, no shame. Unfortunately it is going to take a real tragedy & it biting a judge in the ass for this to stop & for all judges to stop sentencing any & all minors to AA. Also judges need to be very cautious about subjecting any one to AA, especially any one under 30. It's a bad environment for an adult vulnerable addict, but the kids it's a bad, bad accident waiting to happen.
patti
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:36
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Children and Teens are my
Children and Teens are my major concern. It is so distressing to see them sitting in on the meetings at the park listening to the horror stories. We had one local kid who was convinced to be given a ride home by an NA member. She was only 9 years old! Her Mom put a stop to that once she found out!
I think writing the judges and probation departments is a good start to make them aware of our concerns. If they dont hear complaints it will be the same ol same ol. I would like them to explain how they rationalize this practice? Still waiting for answers......
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 15:05
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AD, do you read what you are writing....???
AntiDenial wrote:
"We had one local kid who was convinced to be given a ride home by an NA member. She was only 9 years old! Her Mom put a stop to that once she found out!"
His mother didn't give a shit about leaving him at a NA meeting at 9 yrs. old but someone giving him a ride home she cared about.
AD, the idiot mother left the kid alone, get it...duh!!!!
Yeah, it is NA's fault!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 10:29
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Actually, my not being an AA
Actually, my not being an AA or NA member shows that the crimes of AA/NA are over flowing to innocent outsiders. I was one of them. I have heard the content of meetings, because AA cant keep from screaming their horror stories at the top of their lungs for all to hear in the park.
I saw how AA and NA headquarters reacted with complaints of death threats and violence. Nothing. One does not have to be a member to have knowledge and understanding of much of AA. Talk to the Alanon members who also have been victimized.
There is no cherry picking. If a priest molest a kid, does it mean any less because it did'nt happen at the church down the street? It is how the churches and AA handle sex abuse and violence. That is to sweep it under the rug.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 11:39
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It wasn't my observation that
It wasn't my observation that anyone was screaming at the Sunrise meeting. They seemed just like they do in the photos on your blog. Minding their own business depite people such as yourself taking photos of them and posting them online.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:06
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You are so full of Shit and
You are so full of Shit and full of lies. You live in El Paso Texas. Even if you stalked me and came to a meeting you would lie your ass off like you always do. Many people have taken pictures of AA and NA meetings in the Park to post. Do Not start spreading lies again about me. Also nadaytona is Not MY BLOG you lying, idiot. It is a community run blog. Many Many locals have beeen threaten and assaulted by AA and NA members in the Park. Many locals contribute to the local site.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:19
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Here is a typical classic Anti-AA'er response..
"You are so full of Shit and full of lies. You live in El Paso" (Anti-Denial wrote)
Here is ^ a typical classic Anti-AA'er response, full blown hostility, here on this site. All because Clara questioned Anti-Denial accuracy concerning her post.
"Even if you stalked me" (Anti-Denial wrote)
Anti, you are so full of yourself it actually helps to prove you are an unreliable source for credible information. Clara wants to stalk you....lmao!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:10
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Yes, I live in El Paso, and I
Yes, I live in El Paso, and I have disclosed that on the board. That doesn't mean that we don't take vacations.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:12
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published by AntiDenial on
published by AntiDenial on Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:06
Clara, whoever you really are. I am telling you and this forum that you are stalking me. I will be contacting the authorities, and AA World Services. Your behavior as an AA member is not accepted by AA traditions or the law. I have already spoken to AA members that are appalled at what you have written and your planned interference to stir up more controversy about Sunrise Park in Holly Hill Fl. I woud like to warn anybody on this forum about Clara. Do not reveal your personal information and do not answer her private messages. She might just start stalking and harassing you, and come to where you live and worse.
Clara has contacted multiple people in my hometown trying to dig up personal information about me. She now has stated that she bought airline tickets yesterday, and will be coming to Sunrise Park Holly Hill Fl in my hometown in 2 weeks. I consider her a dangerous Texas Alcoholics Anonymous Member and Dangerous Myrtle Beach South Carolina Alcoholics Anonymous Member. That is if anything Clara has said about herself is true. She is psycho.
I am warning you Clara to stay the hell away from me. If I find out who you are I will get a restraining order against you and file charges. Your sick agenda to enable rapists and other felons to come to our playgrounds is disgusting and evil. A court mandated ex-felon Daytona Beach Alcoholics Anonymous Member is sitting in jail on capital crimes involving raping a 9 year old little girl in a park.>>
Did you post this, Anti? I have never made personal contact with you via OPF PMs or any other forum. I don't even know your name.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:27
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Clara, this is typical propaganda that JR Harris tells.....
...his stupid minions to write to sabotage your character on this web site. AntiDenial is one sick twisted jaded whqackjob that needs a daddy like JR to guide her through sick fantasies.
Both of these two were trained under Mark and Ellse Thompson over on Stinkin Thinkin. These were the perverted tactics they would use on posters over there. Which is why ST met the demise it did.
Clara, AntiDenial is a very sick women and will stoop to any level to attack you, please be careful.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:40
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Thanks for pointing out to
Thanks for pointing out to everyone my post about you stalking me. If you can read- I did not say you private messaged me do I? I warned others not to answer your Private Message from you because it had become common knowledge that you were private messaging many people on this blog. I wanted to warn people that you were dangerous. I still feel that way, and I still would advise people on this forum not to answer Clara's private messages. It has also been stated that your private e-mail shows up when you respond.
Just because Clara is so crafty at being passive aggressive and attempts to fool some at being civil. Nothing is further from the truth. You are being hoodwinked. Dont say I did not warn you.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
NoAAUK
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:20
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Anti
Anti
"Many people have taken pictures of AA and NA meetings in the Park to post."
I've never heard of stepper meetings taking place in a park over here. Thats made me laugh:-) A load of people sat around in a public park holding hands and chanting. The mind boggles .Passers by would take piss over here.
I spent the worst time of my life in AA, but some things about it do make you laugh, Ive of a picture in my mind of a load of nutjobs taking garbage in a park now:-)
Sorry I'm not amused by the danger and nuisanse they cause in your neighbourhood, it just seems totally crackers to me when I picture them
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
Clara
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:40
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It doesn't seem to be
It doesn't seem to be uncommon here stateside. I moved here from Myrtle Beach, and there were a number of beach meetings. There are some in California that are even on the schedule and website for those areas. I don't think that people give them a second thought. Of course, there are aother meditation meetings, yoga groups, etc. that meet, too.
But if you look at the photos that the detractors take, these people are generally minding their own business. The people disturbing the calm are the people taking the photos and people react to that. They take photos of them driving into the lot and then cause a scene to make them react. But if you look at the shots of the meetings themselves, these are people in prayer. I don't find them to be the problem.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 20:48
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Typical pathological lying
Typical pathological lying statements. Blame the victim Clara, that's right. Be a good little evil 12 stepper and blame the victims, the people who have been assaulted, harrassed, death threats, etc. All the citizens complaining about the park meetings, just had nothing better to do than write petitions to the City and ask for relief from AA/NA groups.
You are one of the sickest examples of a AA member I have encountered. You do not give a shit that people have been threatened with guns etc. The problem is the behavior of AA/NA groups. Not the local citizens that have filed complaints.
Check out the photo of the man flipping the bird to locals who were having a cook out in the rented pavilion. That's right! He is the guy that threatened to kill people. Hardly was he minding his own business. He is a 20 year plus sober member at that. Or the picture of the guy who was so disruptive that AA called the police on him. www.nadaytona.org
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 17:45
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NoAAUK it is totally crackers
NoAAUK it is totally crackers to see and hear people who are to be anonymous, doing just the opposite.
Many people have regretted going to the park meetings because, once more and more people were realizing they were 12 step meetings, they recogonized their bosses, employees, kids parents etc. Some even over heard their personal shares. Many go to meeting inside now.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
patti
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 14:41
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Clara,
Clara,
no one should be minding their own business when they belong to a group that is abusive & deliberately trolls the court system & prison system looking for bodies to fill the rooms. They should be minding the group's business. No one should be minding their own business when abuse is happening. What is more controlling, more demeaning, more belittling than being told to mind your own business? You are being told that your opinions, input & thoughts are unworthy, that you are unworthy. Wilson wanted Lois minding her own business, he wanted the members of his Buchman copy cat cult to mind their own business, yeah don't you dare go thinking critically, having your own mind or paying any attention to anything wrong, immoral or bad going on around you, just mind your own business. Don't communicate or interact with your spouse or family, just mind your own business. It is degrading, controlling & abusive. And whether you pay attention, think critically or care about others, have decency & be humane, none of those behaviors are going to cause a relapse. Cult members who have been terrified into thinking if they don't mind their own business they relapse, die, get committed or go to jail & have been belittled into believing that they should mind their own business. They are in public @ a meeting, they are fair game for photographs & who the hell in AA is anonymous anyway, all of you are incessant babblers, babbling about your self's, your drinking, parroting the sayings, all your problems & gossiping, yes gossiping about other members & always, always putting down other methods to quit an addiction. AA people are so culted up they can't even hide that they are in AA, parroting the sayings & their other odd behaviors, yes it is odd for an adult to parrot another adults sayings, words & to abide by another adults "suggestions" on who they are, how to be & what to do, it's weird & it shows.
patti
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:04
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You are cherry picking and exaggeration your stories...
...for effect. Lets see how bad I can make AA look, then maybe people will listen to me bla bla bla!!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
NoAAUK
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:25
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In a public park.....init
In a public park.....init great when your daft
Barmy nutjobs
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
teatotaler
Mon, 05/21/2012 - 22:05
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"Cherry-picking?" Bwaaaahhhahahahah! TK...get real..
You got no 'cred. You're the one doing the cherry-picking. BTW, did you go to a meeting last night? Maybe you could travel around the country and visit all those "thousands" of meetings going on "at any given time," and come back and tell us alllll about it. I suspect, though, that you'd report everything just hunky-dory at good ol' AA, all the time, with more evasive spin tactics.
"There's a new sheriff in town."
NoAAUK
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:04
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Anti
Anti
A girl at a SMART meeting told me that somebody had put a knife to her throat at an NA meeting. Then she got on to me about slagging AA, saying that I am stopping people get help????
......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 12:15
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NoAAUK- Geez- these poor NA
NoAAUK- Geez- these poor NA members are so confused! It is like they think they will go to hell if they say anything bad about NA or AA. Such a small percentage of people actually get help from AA. I believe that is only in spite of themselves.
A knife to the throat at an NA meeting, another story of violence in the rooms.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:03
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There are more than one story
There are more than one story of people pulling knifes on one another in AA/NA! Every story is important, since so many are covered up.
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Trisha K.
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:08
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Yeah, just like you all cover up your dishonesty here.
Anti you lead a long list of members here that are very dishonest in your characterizations of AA/NA. You all believe this is the only way you can be heard. I know you do this. Some of your cronies deserted y'all and spoke of such discussions. I find this reprehensible.
There is no way you can tell us that the topics JR, Massive or yourself write about can be taken seriously, come on.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
AntiDenial
Sun, 05/20/2012 - 13:05
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Wow- does it get too much for
Wow- does it get too much for some to hear the God awful truth? What about the people who are now 6 foot under, or who's lives have forever changed because of crimes against them by AA/NA members?
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
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