Has SMART UK become an AA recruiting ground?

Hi Anti, yes I see where you are coming from and considered both SMART and MM censorship of AA critics was just to be politically correct. The concept of freedom of speech is most definitely not to be applied to wonderful, beyond reproach AA, which has obviously saved all our lives and billions and billions of others throughout the universe and has been proved over and over again to be Gods great plan for the salvation of Creation........but does extreme political correctness really solve any issues?
To me all Tom Horvarth is really doing is giving Steppers the green light to infiltrate SMART and they seem to be doing that in the UK to the point of physically locking out Smart facilitators and taking over in the case of Turning Point Westminster.....well they've done the SMART facilitator course after all (In my view you could possibly train a Chimp or a dolphin to pass that course, it would take some effort to fail it. It is meaningless in reality, its just reading a book or bits of one, anyone can easily do it…….. and then continue to preach stepism and/or engage in Sexual predation etc).

In theory it should be a different scenario in the UK anyway. While the US is considered to be the most Christian country in the developed world , England is considered to be the least (the Crusades finished sometime in the early middle ages)

Sorry I'm not digging at you, the whole Treatment issue is such a farce, both sides of the pond because of wilson and smith and their crazy followers trying to save their own skins (or souls or both) with no regard for others and I appreciate you feel the same as me. But it is different over here. For a start is far far smaller.

I was actually trying to get a Moderation/Harm Reduction network started in the UK my involvement with SMART was just to assist them a little. The dream would have been an MM UK working in cooperation with SMART UK and the Treatment Sector. The reality is that the Treatment Sector definitely and I think probably SMART UK, are too polluted with Stepism for that to work. I eventually came to the conclusion that the Treatment Sector/Centres have to be completely out flanked.
A UK Moderation/Harm Reduction Network could advertise at Point of Sale ie in Pubs Clubs Supermarkets etc it would also be beneficial to the UK drinks industry showing they are trying to clean up their act. The network is not promoting abstinence rather responsible drinking which should have no conflict of interests with the UK drinks industry and should be beneficial to them long term. A Cheap Hand book could be produced similar in kind to the SMART UK members hand book, which could be emailed to all GP’s (we are much much smaller than the US as I said ) An online community could be set up which again could be advertised at Point of Sale and directly with GP’s. NHS endorsement could be gotten and NHS logo on all literature and Posters etc. Drinkaware .co.uk could finance the formation of face to face meetings. It could be very economical not involving the Treatment Centres and the inherent waste of communal funds . This Network could be set up and run without any involvement with the Treatment Centres and could easily be blatantly anti AA, it should be totally acceptable for a Harm Reduction network anyway. You could even have links to the OP for those who need deprogramming from stepism before attempting Moderation like I did. I would glady give up my Saturdays to start meetings up and down the UK. I could run my own pilot scheme, again without any Treatment Centre involvement. It would be real peer support.
Ive recently discussed these ideas with somebody of prominence over here and they agree it can work. It even could be done in conjunction with a large scale anti AA campaign, involving the OP and other deprograming sites and videos being emailed to MP’s doctors etc. TV Programs such as Panorama and Dispatches which like to expose things on a national scale finally exposing Stepism. In fact any opposition from Steppers and their supporters/enablers could actually be advantageous opening up large scale debate about stepism at last in the UK media. The whole British public could finally get to know AA and its clones are just religious cults.

You would really need to work in conjunction with a total abstinence network, SMART UK would not be applicable, perhaps future members who found Moderation was NOT and option for them, could get in touch and form a UK Rational Recovery Network (I’m happy with Jack) or SOS or some real total abstinence total alternative to stepism.
As the British Army’s elite soldiers the SAS claim in their motto “Who Dares Wins” It could work with out censorship of AA criticism. Problem drinkers attempting habit change could finally say what they wanted to. It could be done with the right motivated people….certainly in the UK, possibly both sides of the Atlantic

Just about every Anti-AA member on this site bashes AA and....wait for it...have either attended a Smart meeting in person or on-line, they also actively promote Smart here. So please Anti, Smart does bash AA.
The members/advocates = Smart.

I am not a believer that reading the BB and praying is all there is to it anymore than I think you can watch a few RR videos after you've been "invited" to the program through a professional and "get it." I am a firm believer that the support is what does it for me, and that wouldn't change be it AA or any of its clones.

I still think the was to create real change is for people that believe it is necessary or desireable to become SMART facilitators.

I am not a believer that reading the BB and praying is all there is to it anymore than I think you can watch a few RR videos after you've been "invited" to the program through a professional and "get it." I am a firm believer that the support is what does it for me, and that wouldn't change be it AA or any of its clones.

I still think the was to create real change is for people that believe it is necessary or desireable to become SMART facilitators so that it is actually available. Anything less is just mental masturbation.

Mcf66 I believe Bamford may well have ran that AA meeting at Turning Point and a now finished NA group as well. She high jacked the SMART meeting from me because she can't run a stepper meeting there anymore. Shes just a control freak, any meeting will do as long as SHE'S in charge

The intention was for me to eventually hand over the meeting (and the MM one) to a suitable local SMART facilitator, not a dethroned stepper control freak.

They realy ought to close that whole Turning Point Centre down at Westminster its a bad place in my opinon and warrents and investigation by Turning Point Head Office

mfc66uk-you said ...I don't think that amateur, voluntary groups are the way foward because of the nature of people that you find in the recovery movement . There needs to be more safety and some accountability as well as a rational assessment of any newcomer . It is not good enough to tell somebody to read the big book and go and pray.

This is a very valid point and whY I liked Smart so much at first. But at two separate meetings I saw too much just letting people actually dominate a Smart Meeting . It was weird and I wont go into it here. It had nothing to do with me these particular times. But I felt like the leader just acted like it was an AA meeting letting one person go on and on for 20 minutes. One young girl was talking about being homicidal and suicidal and we all were looking at the leader to tell the young girl to go to UCLA right away to get help. I think you are right. Some safety and accountability and professional facilitation is better.

Im tired of the blind leading the blind and the stupid AA way.