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Wed, 05/16/2012 - 23:43
Who the hell are you addressing, Clara?
Cuz Cause drank, Gigi drank, Avo and I used drugs. That's why we are on anti-AA sites. We had to go.
Who else could he/she/it be talking to?
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 00:30
Question - are you in AA? This is directed to Trisha K.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 23:49
Ha! You just have a problem with DUIs? That's all?
The cops had it out for you?
No, Clara. I was a stalking victim and the stalker vandalized my house. The cops had it out for me. They did nothing.
BTW, I haven't had one DUI.
I think you might have rec'd a DUI because you drove over the legal limit.
Persephone In Exile
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:09
Well, I think one of the problems is that people know they can be given leniency if they claim they have a "drinking problem", that they're sick and compelled to drink and can be helped with treatment of some kind. That doesn't mean that all of the people sentenced in that way are actually alcoholics, they may just be arrogantly assuming they're above the law and can drink and drive with impunity, and then are told by their attorneys once finally caught to claim they are alcoholics.
Not that I see a solution to that, either, But trust me Clara, the dozen to 20 something people at my rehab who were there to reduce their sentences not all LOVED the program and all--but they did see it as a "gift" of sorts compared to jail, and they were almost all willing to do whatever it took to at least not get caught again, which usually means that they also aren't drinking and driving anymore, either. It's not as if I want my tax dollars put into sending people to an AA type treatment, but I don't see much reason for most of those people to be in jail (also on our dime). Most of these people are employed and have families. The costs to society of incarcerating all of them would've been far worse than the Uber AA Rehab. And, if it makes you feel better, a few of them really took to the program.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 15:17
There is something to be said for Step Zero, which is "something has to change." Perhaps these people just weren't ready. I am a firm believer in that there has to be a certain amount of that or it IS all futile.
I also don't need to feel better about it. I personally have confidence in the AA program. I also havve enthusiasm for others as well. I think it is all worth giving a shot to if someone wants to change.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Tue, 05/15/2012 - 17:30
In many ways, the Orange Papers makes AA a little better. At least I see it that way.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 09:21
Discloser said; Send em to PRISON or WORK-FARM, perhaps they will learn.
They threaten my livelihood, job, life, savings, children, pets, etc.
Send them to prison, not AA where they can prey on society with the protection of God and the courts.
JJ says; Are you not happy that they send DUI drivers to AA? If they didnt you wouldnt have as much to complain about. Plus since AAers are terrible people are you not happy that they stick criminals in the mtgs with the serenity hornits? You say you never drove under the influence but have you ever been out in public under the influence? If you have you also threatend my livelihood. People get sent to jail for drunk in public charges also. Many dui drivers also attend AA as a plea agreement and also after they get out of jail for a probation agreement. You sound like a self-righteous prick Discloser, you ever cheat on your taxes??
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 12:04
Aren’t we all self righteous in a way? The difference between you and I though is that I would never insult you unless you were standing in front of me. I also know that anything posted on a forum such as my comment is subject to interpretation, mood, context, etc. Most of what I post here is sincere and from my experience which by the way is all self righteous. The comment I made on jail was not sincere; it was just a mood in reaction to the thread.
In any case, assuming you were insulted by me, I apologize.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 17:23
Can you please tell me how a random person being fucked up in public threatens your livelihood?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:43
you are very gracious. and yeah all people are self righteous @ times, me too, but it isn't a life style, AA is a life style.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 13:58
Disclosure just wanted to say sorry for my rude comment. You are not self righteous. But damnit you should agree with me! ;) that little thing is a smile but this is a big smile :D
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:04
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:21
I wonder why Clara posts on here. It can't be to convert people. Could it be that she is just not bat shit crazy like the rest of her AA counterparts, well spoken, and it's all a PR deal?
Clara, why do you post on here?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:23
Clara's up there with the best of 'em...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:27
It isn't to convert people, Kate. You don't have to be an Anti-AA to post on OPF. Orange will tell you that all opinions and positions are welcome. I realize that AA is not for everyone, and that is fine.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:30
WHY? What is the point?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:34
Why not, Ben?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:42
We've been trying to find out why she's here since she turned up. Just will not say.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:32
I take it you've spent no time on the SR site. THERE, you will find TRULY bat shit crazy.
Clara seems like the most rational and well educated (almost like having a PhD) compared to the crazies on that site.
Still, my question remains. There is no attempt at conversion. Is this one of those "attraction not promotion" deals?
Or is this some sort of religious endeavor in which you want the light of Jesus to shine through you and gain converts?
I just don't get it. Clara should be out and about doing 12 step calls, not devoting herself to a site that has no intention of ever getting hooked up with AA again.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:35
Clara just turned up one day, said everything in AA is wonderful, and keeps repeating it. She spends so much time on here, she doesn't go to meetings any more...lol
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:40
LOL is right. Be careful, Kate. People rewrite your posts to say what they wish they did. I said I didn't like the meetings in Texas. But I live just over the border and go to meetings in NM.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:45
I don't have to be careful. I'm in the right place. My question is why aren't you at the AA service center right now taking calls from those who are drunks who might want what you have?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:53
Ok, I have figured it out. Clara does not get the ATTENTION at AA she does here. That is why she or he is here.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:10
You know, I will never get it. You've been a member for less than two days, according to the profile, yet you just leap in and assume that because a person is an AA that you must be adversarial. What has anyone done to you, Kate?
As an FYI, I got a lot of attention in AA, but that isn't why I was there. I was there to change my life, and it did. I had a wonderful time, met some great people and got good advice and suggestions, used the steps to clean up my life, met my husband in the fellowship and moved west to the desert from the beach. How about you, dear?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 23:47
Clara, it gets really old when your only rebuttal to someone is "you've only been here for x amount of days."
So. What? Most people like to lurk before they post. Besides, you are the only one here (besides Becket and tranny perhaps) that doesn't find it weird that you are our top poster. We often wonder whT you do when you aren't online trying to demean the traumatic experiences of OPF members
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 07:55
"We often wonder?" Why would you do that, Ironic? I do alot of stuff, but it hasn't been met with much approval on the board, so why bring it up? It isn't about me, anyway.
I just don't understand the emotionalism, and if she has indeed been lurking, she knows the answers to the questions she poses to me. None of it is new.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 06:14
I do not think Kate is being adversarial, she is curious & asking why are you here? It is confusing & she's asking you why? Clara, you are truly blessed that your with drawl & recovery from an addiction was a wonderful time, kind of like attending a nice restaurant or tea or going on a vacation.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 07:57
Since I am the top poster, as someone just notified me... she can simply read them and find the answers to her questions.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 08:04
Your posts contain no answers. Empty, empty, empty.
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 08:09
Sure they do, Gigi. Just not the answers you want.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:56
Clara is a lady.
I must say, she doesn't look too shabby in her wee pic.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 20:59
Your point is? I asked a valid question. Why is an AA member here posting (constantly) when he or she could be "being of service" to another drunk? It's not like she will ever convert anyone here.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:14
Instead of trying to discern the reason for our participation here, work on why you are here. The opposing members have earned the right to be here.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:17
Please explain that comment. It sounds more like the definition of a bullying troll. Are you trying to be divisive in an attempt to manipulate and control?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 00:12
JR, Trisha K. is obviously doing one of those deals where if you say something, no matter how ludicrous it sounds, it just might work. How on earth does an AA member in favor of AA "earn the right to be here?" If they had any respect for this site and what people have suffered as a result of AA, they'd run back over to SR and give the newbies some pep talks. Troll works too. :)
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 23:54
Earned the "right to be here?" on an anti-AA site? Listen chick-adee, I have effing EARNED the right to be here as I sat through years of your AA puke. This is an anti-AA site. You have in no way "earned the right to be here," as you add no value to the discussion.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 06:16
how does one earn the right to be on an open & public forum? why are you telling Kate what to do, to work on why she is here? why bark orders @ any one, any time, any where?
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 07:59
Well, Patti, the same can be asked of Kate, who has been on the board for three days and is already doing what you project onto to TK.
The point is that OPF is an open forum and all points of view are welcome here.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 09:16
Kate was asking you why you are here on this forum, every day & wondering why you aren't 12 stepping instead? You could just answer. I would like to know why T.K. is here, he/she appears to be very hostile toward us & I'm wondering why he/she is doing this to himself. You have to admit it is kinda strange to be here as an AAer, I would not spend any of my time on a pro AA site or @ a meeting to disagree, attack & debate. Also saying he/she has the right to be here, was redundant, it's an open & public forum, wondering what the hell he/she is talking about!?
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:21
Kate, you have no idea who is tuning in to this forum. Probably lots of people who are thinking of departing AA or have recently decided to leave AA. The AA voice here gives new viewers a little perspective. You may blast away that the AA voice is biased, but so is the anti-AA voice. It's called balance. This forum is not for just the people who are posting. Zealots here will tell you there are 1.5+ million views per month or some such thing. That's a lot of eyes on the forum, and perhaps 5% of those people will find what they're looking for through AA and not through this vindictive bullshit that goes on here. The other 95% can have what you guys have. I wouldn't touch it.
I'm not Clara; I speak for myself. I've been out of AA, free and clear, since 1990. I'm 32 years sober. I'm not an AA zealot or zombie; I just value perspective. I hope this explains at least one reason why I'm here. Clara can share her own views with her at her convenience.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:26
Your true colors emerge. What if someone said they wanted to save the 10-20% of that 5% that stay from being made a martyr out of when the voodoo kills them? If the information about this stuff isn't out there, they can't avoid it.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:31
He admitted as much a couple of days ago. He also admitted that "alcoholism" was not a disease.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®http://www.expaa.org/http://bereanresearch.com/http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMShttp://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:46
I'm protecting anyone who feels they need protection from your rant. And your insanity.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:52
It is against Traditions and not Spiritual. You are just trying to protect the prospect hunting grounds of the 1-2% of prospects the manipulating Sponsors of AA manage to snag. The other 2-3% that are captured by the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous are benign and actually might even be helpful, but they wouldn't be on this forum, they are happy with their program and follow the Traditions.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:54
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 21:58
And you are protecting "anyone" how exactly judge No Balls becket?
By contradicting youself in the effectiveness of the 12 steps? By admitting two days ago that "alcoholism" is not a disease? By admitting that you have quit consuming alcohol through a structured environment and discipline? By admitting to the hundred's of thousands that god don't perform miracles in order for anyone to quit drinking.
So, When Faith Enters, Reason Exits is a truth even to you?
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 09:18
I truthfully don't believe any one any where needs the protection you seem to feel you have to offer or give.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 23:50
Meet becket. (S)he loves to talk about how much AA rocks and how well it works even though she doesn't attend meetings or actually follow any of the traditions or anything. Rather than help the still suffering addict, (s)he spends time here heckling people looking for advice and a place to share their bad experiences.
Wed, 05/16/2012 - 23:59
Yeah, I see that, all under the guise that so many eyes are focused on this site so we should all behave (read not be angry over what years of AA has done to us), so that MAYBE someone might stroll along and see the light, which isn't becket's light, btw.
Thu, 05/17/2012 - 07:15
"The AA voice here gives new viewers a little perspective." If this was an honest, accurate statement I'd be all for it but you must be kidding right? Trisha K. offers absolutely no perspective, nothing of substance or importance is ever included in her random grenades that she tosses out. Clara? Perspective? She's vapid and empty. You? I don't know about you half the time. Do you think you were showing anyone a little perspective with your rapid fire assault posts yesterday? You criticize people on the forum for acting like they're in a barroom brawl then stomp around throwing empty bottles and turning over bar stools. Nice perspective for the new viewers. Well played.