Bill W & The Spiritual Awakening?

Submitted by The Professor on Sat, 05/12/2012 - 02:51

Forums:

One thing that has always puzzled me.

How come Bill W gets his "spiritual awakening" even before a step has been done? Yet everyone else must do the whole of the 12 steps before they get their spiritual awakening? If a spiritual awakening is the main ingredient for sobriety, then surely all it will take is a bit of Belladonna?

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 06:56

Bill Wilson did not use the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous or even the absolutes of the Oxford Group to have a Spiritual awakening, he used chemical means. Starting with the Belladonna cure in November of 1934, Dr. William Silkworth administered the deliriant Atropa Belladonna, also known as Deadly Nightshade to Bill Wilson in a ceremony sometimes identified as "puke and purge" in an attempt to cure Wilson from going on alcoholic binges. Atropa Belladonna is the active ingredient used in many pagan rituals and is said to give a sense of an out of body experience. The drug also causes the eyes to dilate and is used by modern day and historic witches (yes, witches who practice dark magic) as a way to entice their prey with their mystical eyes. The white flash that Wilson experienced, was most likely due to dilation of his pupils and his demands to see God are most likely due to the delirium that the drug causes. Once Wilson experienced this "Spiritual Awakening" he became an addict for it, always wanting to experience a "higher" Spiritual plane and to share it with his friends. In the 1950's, Wilson "chased the monkey" to this high and started to experiment with the drug LSD with clergy, fiction writers and his girl friend Helen Wynn. Wilson's allure to "Deadly Nightshade" had waned and it is not believed that he experimented with it anymore or tried to grow his own. Deadly Nightshade is available in pagan and occult stores and on the internet today as a way to experience a Spiritual Awakening in their pagan rituals.

Incidentally today is May 12, 2012 and is the Community Gardening Day at Stepping Stones in Bedford Hills, where the followers of Bill Wilson, seeking a Spiritual Awakening are planting the garden at his compound in anticipation of the planned 61st Family Group Picnic on Saturday, June 2, 2012. I do have to wonder if the Belladonna plant with be planted.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 07:50

JR, I am completely aware that Bill W(anker) hallucinated on Bella...That was my point, as the spiritual awakening Bill W(anker) claims he had, never existed! Yet millions follow this pricks advice that if you do the 12 steps you will have the same experience. Are people in AA really that thick to still believe this shit?

Lesson over!

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:18

The 12 Steps did not get Bill W sober and never did. He was unemployed and a con man, so he made up a pseudo-religion called Alcoholics Anonymous to bring him in money. Through his con, he built AAWS, GSO/GSB and the Grapevine to funnel him a small portion of money from everyone who joined.

Mainly it was through "Big Book" sales at first. Wilson then began getting "perks" for the book he plagiarized and stole in the form of Stepping Stones, a Cadillac, expense accounts to travel on AA business. It eventually expanded to the forming of Intergroups who would send tithing to AA in New York to allow him to have a larger expense account. As in any con, the perpetrator has to look like he has "found" the way to great wealth by following his program. AAWS and Hazelden would not be at the head of this multi-billion dollar "Recovery Industry" if they allowed people to realize that Wilson didn't find Spirituality or sobriety following the "Big Book." Hence, that little piece of the puzzle is left out in most of the literature so that the cult is perpetuated.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:17

People obviously believe it, Professor, or AA would have folded long ago. I suppose the geniuses flee by the boatload and the dolts stay behind. I'm sure their reasons for remaining in the fellowship are vacuous and unworthy of exploration.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Unhinged

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 07:05

I am interested in the subject of the 'Spiritual Awakening'.

"Yet everyone else must do the whole of the 12 steps before they get their spiritual awakening?"

Did you complete the 12 steps? Did you have a 'Spiritual Awakening'? Please explain.

I've never tried Belladonna but I would if I thought it would make me have one of those 'Spiritual Awakenings'.

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 07:42

You know what Step 12 says. It doesn't tell you that after steps 1 to 5 you will have a spiritual awakening. It waits until step 12.
Have I done the 12 steps? No. I went to AA every day for 2 years and never did a step. So what kept me sober? Me!!!
Have I had a spiritual awakening? Yes, the day I walked out of AA!!!!

You would never get a spiritual awakening from Belladonna any more than Bill W did. My point was a simple one. How come Bill W gets a spiritual awakening just lay in hospital but in AA you have to work the steps to get one?

Lesson over!

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 07:58

Bingo

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:24

You sound as if you have an interesting story. If you didn't need AA, why did you go?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:37

I went because I was told to by the hospital who treated me for alcoholism. They drummed it into me everyday that unless I did AA after treatment I would die.

They lied!!!

Lesson over!

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:50

But if you could do it yourself, why were you in treatment? I hear that often here. "All I needed was me."
I wonder when I hear that why people come to that realization only after trying AA, rehab, various other methods... If we could do it ourselves, those things would never have been a consideration. We would just walk away. I did that after the last dui/car crash I had. But I knew I couldn't stay stopped and I went to AA for support. While I had put it down for a while, it had never been a permanent way of life for me.

In all fairness, I can't say that anything else couldn't or wouldn't have been just as helpful and effective because I didn't try anything. I didn't look because I found good things in AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:57

Not everyone in AA is a prick. I made some nice friends, but as time went on I saw more and more of the ugly side of AA. I have always maintained that as a Fellowship AA has some good points. All you need to do is throw out the BB and forget the steps because a) it is bullshit and b) it causes more harm than good.

Instead of sharing the same old record of how your life has been changed by the 12 steps, tell me exactly how you started to get your life back. Nobody ever talks about what they actually did to get their life back. And if they did, they would see that it is they who has kept themselves sober and not some hocus pocus magic created by such a crock of bullshit as the 12 steps!!!

Lesson over!

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 12:48

Prof, this always turns into some sort of argument and everyone wants to be right about someone else's experience. I found the steps to be enlightening and cleansing. Others haven't. I realize that is it useless to go into too much detail with someone that already feels it all is a crock of bullcrap.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 15:02

but still drink alcohol?

Lesson over!

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 15:51

I don't drink, Prof. Yes, I think the steps work. You don't even have to be in AA to find many of them. Just about every self-help book has variations of them.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 16:12

"All animals are equal" changed to "All animals are equal, but some more equal than others"

"AAs don't drink alcohol" changed to "AAs don't drink alcohol OUT OF A GLASS"

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:09

That's just the world-renowned scientist talking!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 23:42

but I am sure I saw on this forum that you do intake alcohol in some form?

Lesson over!

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 13:32

The Professor, that was really the most empowering thing for me, personally. Looking back and seeing what all I myself did. I don't think I could've not given myself some credit even if I'd've stayed in "the program". Even now, that's one of the questions I pose to people who insist that everything was due to the program. No, take a look at what YOU did, and pat yourself on the back for once!

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 09:47

Because, Clara, many are programed from birth to believe that no true alcoholic can recover on his own. Once we start to have problems with substance abuse, we hear this even more. It's pretty much axiomatic.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:09

From birth? O rly?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 03:29

From a young age, Becket.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 05:36

I was taught (by the Catlix) that the age of reason is 7 - that was when children can really distinguish right from wrong. Would you say that's about when indoctrination begins, or would it be earlier, before they really have a choice or a secret option to disregard some or all of what is taught?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 06:59

I don't know. It depends.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:32

"Have I done the 12 steps? No. I went to AA every day for 2 years and never did a step."

Then you are unqualified to render judgment on the efficacy of the program. You can pity those who stay, you can mock the entire premise of a spiritual awakening, you can even bitch about the lousy coffee, but your powers of reasoning are diminished to nothing in evaluating the program because you never applied a single step to your drinking problem.

This is not to say your drying up and blowing hard all on your own isn't legitimate or noteworthy. It's always better not to be drinking to excess. People don't have to work any steps to experience a spiritual awakening. Life itself doles out the shit on an hourly basis. We live, we learn. Sometimes is sucks. Sometimes it borders on glorious. No one can promise a spiritual awakening to another person - that is just wrong on so many levels. But there's nothing wrong with saying, "This happened to me and it could happen to you, too." And THAT, my friends, is the placebo effect: "You never know . . . it just might work!"

Why did you waste two entire years of your life in AA when you resisted the recommendations outlined in the program from the git-go? Why did you just not walk? This is the part that fascinates me: that so many people don't trust their own best judgment, even when they're shaky, still drunk, still using, one day away from the last drink. There is always an internal voice that says, "What the fuck are you doing here?" Why did you not listen to that? Talk about being slapped with a spiritual awakening and being too thick to know what it was!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 03:36

No one can promise a spiritual awakening to another person - that is just wrong on so many levels.

This is exactly what the Big Book does.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 05:37

Correct. On this literal point, the Big Book and I disagree.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

The Professor

Tue, 05/15/2012 - 05:34

As you consistently point out AA and the 12 step program are separate. I have always maintained there is mileage in AA as a fellowship. I made some good friends in AA.

I didn't do any steps in AA, but I was forced to do 1 to 5 in treatment. With all due respect, I have a brain. That really is all you need to realise the 12 steps cannot stop an alcoholic picking up a drink. It was never designed for that and there is just overwhelming evidence that it doesn't work. Only the indoctrinated cannot accept contrary evidence to their blind faith!!!

I left when I felt there were too many hypocrites whose number far outweighed the amount of friends I would ever make!!!

Lesson over!

massive's picture

massive

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 15:28

I had a natural high that I called a spiritual awakening as soon as I quit on my own, met other young sober people and began to meditate.

Then I was 13 stepped and got pretty bummed out. I tried then writing a 4th , doing a 5th with a hippy guru Flobird everyone raved about. There was no connection for me...and in fact I felt more disconnected from that experience. And depressed from the steps.

My natural high came from my own inner spiritual work. Yes I completed then more then once. Big deal. It was the human connection from someone who really cared that helped. Love heals.

Also there was a point where AA sponsors do not know what they are doing and are making shit up which was done to me and very harmful. At 15 years sober I finally went to a REAL therapist!!!!

Professor. welcome.....what's your story.....are you doing research?

Massive

Unhinged

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 07:57

I wonder if the spiritual awakening is an instant hit, or does it grows on you gradually? I wonder if there are steppers at step 12 wondering when the fuck their spiritual awakening is going to kick in?

I guess Bill W got his spiritual awakening before working the steps because he was 'special'. One of Gods chosen children.

I'll need to get one of those spiritual awakenings.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:02

Hi Unhinged, According to Bill W. most "men" have a gradual experience. Billy was an exception:

"These were revolutionary and drastic proposals, but the moment I fully accepted them, the effect was electric. There was a sense of victory, followed by such a peace and serenity as I had never known. There was utter confidence. I felt lifted up, as though the great clean wind of a mountain top blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but His impact on me was sudden and profound."
~Bill Wilson, Big Book page 14

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:05

I heard some say their spiritual awakening was an instant hit and some say it was of the educational variety as explained in the Appendix of the BB. Personally, I don't think many people in AA would know what a spiritual awakening was if it came and smacked them in the face!

Lesson over!

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:22

Why would anyone think that people in AA are immune to spiritual awakenings? Or that you'd have to be in AA in order to have one? I've had them all of my life, which is how I knew God never had given up on me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

gigi

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:28

Is it possible to have a spiritual awakening "as a result of these steps" as we the BB tells us? How does that happen? Is the spiritual awakening guaranteed? What if we don't have one? What then? Can you make sense of any of this? Seriously.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:31

Hi gigi, I think JR said it before and it's easy
Sought through prayer and medication...

gigi

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:40

Dammit, dandammit! My AA sponsor told me I didn't need my medication! I was cheated out of my spiritual awakening.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

The Professor

Sat, 05/12/2012 - 08:48

There is no sense in it. Anybody with an IQ over 20 can see how ludicrous the BB is.

Lesson over!

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 01:38

Since when does the desire to stop drinking, and the search for relief from alcohol dependence, get measured in IQ points? What an arrogant statement. You feel the Big Book is "ludicrous"; others do not. Can you not discuss the alleged deficiencies of the 12-step program without resorting to insulting millions of people who do not share your own dazzling IQ of 210? Pfft.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 05:28

judge No Balls becket. 12 steps dogma teaches following the 12 steps is the ONLY way to remove alcohol from the "inflicted" person's life. This removal of the "infliction" ("disease") is the ONLY "cure" for "alcoholism" according to Bill W. How is this "cure" accomplished?

By god performing miracles. Thats right, AA members who work the program are rewarded with a "god miracle" to remain sober. That is millions upon millions of miracles god has performed since AA was spawned in the 1930"s.

Wow. Impressive. god that is, not AA.

No wonder the world is always seeing natural disasters around the globe. god is busy performing miracles for AA members and unavailabe for disaster prevention.

MIRACLES PERFORMED HERE. Hahahahahha.

WHEN FAITH ENTERS, REASON EXITS. No kiddin!

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 05:48

"12 steps dogma teaches following the 12 steps is the ONLY way to remove alcohol from the "inflicted" person's life."

Please refresh my memory: on what page can I find this declaration in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous? I don't mean an insinuation or an intimation or a suggestion or innuendo. I mean this unembellished, true and accurate concept - where can it be found as you report above? Just the page number will do. Thanks.

Oh, um, one more thing:

"Thats right, AA members who work the program are rewarded with a "god miracle" to remain sober. That is millions upon millions of miracles god has performed since AA was spawned in the 1930"s." It has been my understanding ever since I came to the Orange Posters Forum that AA helps no one. So can you explain these miracles? Now, if you're just poking fun at the program, there's probably a better way than to uphold the idea that "millions upon millions" of people have enjoyed redemption through AA when you really believe NO ONE has benefitted from it.

What does the truth really look like to you?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 06:31

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/AA-Is-it-only-way-al...

In black and white No Balls becket.

"god" as we understood him/her/it.

"For people with alcohol and drug problems, this might entail joining a group like Alcoholics Anonymous. According to AA doctrine and its 12-step program, redemption from the disease comes not from willpower but from reliance on a “higher power” — as Step Three puts it, “God as we understood him.”"

I know you barely graduated high scholl No Balls but it there it is, in step 3. Miracles Performed Here.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 15:27

Why does "an insinuation or an intimation or a suggestion or innuendo" not count? Can you please show us where it specifically states otherwise? Just the page number will do.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 15:54

Becket, can you please show where the big book or the 12x12 specifically states there are other ways to achieve sobriety? Just a page number will do. No insinuation, intimation, suggestion or innuendo allowed. (play by your own rules)

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 06/03/2012 - 20:46

Why would you ask me to do such a thing? I'm not a member of Alcoholic Anonymous. I am not an AA apologetic. I am not here to defend AA to the exclusion of other methods of achieving and maintaining sobriety. I have no such responsibility to you or anyone else.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:27

Yes, you are "a AA apologetic", and I will take your non-answer to mean you can't defend the position that AA doesn't claim to be the only way to get sober. Unless you can prove otherwise, of course.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:29

I have never believed that AA is the only way to get sober. Do you want me to lie? Please explain why I should go to the trouble of searching for something that is not in the BB or the 12&12. Do you have me mixed up with Clara or what?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:32

Oh, so you don't want to play by your own rules. Glad you are able to admit that it's not in the literature. Thanks for that.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:41

This isn't a game to me. If you're trying to snare me you're gonna have to work a damn sight harder that you are.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:44

I'm sorry but you made the demands and set the rules, yet you can't abide by them when the tables are turned back to you. There's a word for that... now what is it... hmmm...

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:33

You do every time you deny you are the person who used to post as Marietta Davis - you know, bi-polar Grammy girl...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:42

For some, fantasy is better than reality. You are one of the "some", btnben.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

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