becket/MArrrietta admits 12 steps are not keeping him sober

live_free_or_die's picture
Submitted by live_free_or_die on Mon, 05/14/2012 - 05:08

beckets full post from yesterday

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becket
Sun, 05/13/2012 - 20:27
Permalink

I'm not here to give

I'm not here to give "rational defense to the 12 step program". I advocate for choice in pursuit of sobriety. The 12 steps is one of many methodologies. I bear no ill will toward anyone using any method at hand to achieve sobriety until they insist that theirs is the ONLY WAY to do so. That is a modern version of the Crusades and it is unacceptable.

It has worked for me because I got sober within AA. I did what was suggested and lasting sobriety has been my reward. I do not pretend to work a perfect program. But I'm not drinking today and I credit the discipline of the 12 steps for that. I needed structure and I found it in AA. I do not spew slogans or chant or attend meetings or hand out literature or go prospect hunting. Mine is a private program. If any AA member would take me to taks for not evangelizing, fuck them. I do not buy into the insistence on a Christian God. I do not support mandating by the courts, or 13th stepping, or anyone's opportunism in the midst of vulnerable people. I minded my own business, did the work, ended up dry, clean, sober, abstinent, whatever you want to call it.

Within AA I put distance between myself and my dependance on booze. I am free of obsession and compulsion and have been for over 30 years, so I don't feel any particular pull toward drinking again; so the assertion that the 12-step program is preventing me from drinking again is an erroneous one.

Anything else I can help you with?

Kidding allowed (except for btnben)
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Analysis

becket said above, and I quote from above:

"I bear no ill will toward anyone using any method at hand to achieve sobriety until they insist that theirs is the ONLY WAY to do so. That is a modern version of the Crusades and it is unacceptable." Ok, good for you if it is the truth.

"But I'm not drinking today and I credit the discipline of the 12 steps for that. I needed structure and I found it in AA."Ok. Good. To be clear here becket, you are saying that the discipline and structure of the "program" is what got you sober, clean, abstinate. Not a miracle performed by your higher power (read god).

"Within AA I put distance between myself and my dependance on booze. I am free of obsession and compulsion and have been for over 30 years, so I don't feel any particular pull toward drinking again; Ok. Good. So what you are saying here becket is that your obsesson, your compulsion and your dependence on alcohol was "removed" from you as a result of discipline and structure. You are saying, becket, that it is not the 12 step "program" that got you sober, what got you sober was the structure and discipline of the 12 steps. So no miracles from god to get you sober becket? becket you say you are free of your obsession, dependence and compulsion to consume alcohol because of discipline and structure-therefor it follows that you, becket, are saying in your own words that alcohol dependence is not a disease but a choice.

"so the assertion that the 12-step program is preventing me from drinking again is an erroneous one." Sweet, sweet sweet. Ok becket. Thanks for sharing. The 12 steps are not keeping you sober. I get it.

Comments

msafrany

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 05:35

"I did what was suggested and lasting sobriety has been my reward".

Sounds like someone has been duped. I just wonder what the reward is for spending the entire month on the Orange Forum?

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:29

"Sounds like"? That's what you base your unsolicited judgment on? How breezy! It's so much more fun being the shooter than the driver, wouldn't you agree, msafrany?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 08:43

"Mine is a private program", except for us & the orange papers forum.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:24

I have actually shared little about my program here. My posts have mainly addressed the ridiculousness of the knee-jerk reaction to AA and my self-defensive stance that has developed as a byproduct of my presence here.

" . . . us & the orange papers forum" is redundant.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:26

thanks for clearing up my grammar & redundancy. any chance you can clear up your written contradictions, now that a grammar issue is resolved?

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:31

And what "written contradictions" would those be, sweetheart?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:31

'I'm not here to give "rational defense to the 12 step program".'

'My posts have mainly addressed the ridiculousness of the knee-jerk reaction to AA'

Make your fucking mind up Marietta...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:22

Discussing reactions to AA and discussing the program of AA are two separate animals, btnben. It does not surprise me that you cannot grasp the difference.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:28

God - you are full of shit sometimes - did I say sometimes?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:36

Kind of like anyone can be a member if they want to quit drinking (or is ordered to by the court) and can be called an Alcoholic, but that doesn't mean they're "real" Alcoholics. If they aren't "real" Alcoholics they don't know what they are talking about, unless the other Steppers agree with it.

Simple Stepper Logic 101.......

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 15:16

"Discussing reactions to AA and discussing the program of AA are two separate animals, btnben. It does not surprise me that you cannot grasp the difference."

The point is: the program of AA and reactions to AA are different animals. Idiot.

Take your time absorbing what you missed the first time. I can wait.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

The Professor

Tue, 05/15/2012 - 05:20

"The point is: the program of AA and reactions to AA are different animals. Idiot."

But neither are they mutually exclusive!

Lesson over!

patti

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 09:59

yep, knew you wouldn't be rigorously honest.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:26

As days go by it becomes clearer how little you really do know, patti. This is one of those instances where jumping on the hate bandwagon is easier for you than discerning the differences. Have at it, girl. Do your best damage. Hazing is the toughest part of joining the club, but by god, you are nearly there.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:23

are you incapable of discussing both simultaneously? really, honestly?

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:30

They are two separate topics from two separate contexts. Now, do you want to remove your pitchfork from my spine sometime today, or would it be more amusement for you to just dig those tines around until bits of tissue start to fall to the ground?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 10:32

And you didn't mean them differently. Just the normal embarrassment at being caught out billshitting yet again. Try it the AA way - tell the truth. Don't let your anger force you to make things up...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Brett

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 14:41

about getting a real job? or a real life? c'mon becks you know thats whats needed.

Brett

Unhinged

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 14:45

I just wanted to say ha fucking ha ha to becket.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:58

"Nothing constructive" is quite accurate. Thank you for your acknowledgement, but I can do fine without you, little man.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:41

Busted!

patti

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 16:59

Busted with what?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 17:01

"The point is: the program of AA and reactions to AA are different animals. Idiot."

Please explain your insistence that the above two topics are one and the same.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 19:35

Busted with everything, Drama Queen! Pitchfork, spine, tissue falling to the ground! The drama!
Discussing the program of AA & the reactions to AA can be discussed simultaneously. Why not?

patti

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Mon, 05/14/2012 - 19:57

AA is a modern day crusades.
god does not perform miracles for people to quit the drink. Quitting is accomplished through discipline and will power.
like becket, I agree that substance abuse is not a disease, but a choice.
Like becket, I agree that the 12 steps do nothing to help people quit drinking (in becket's own words)

Is CLara on vacation? Alkie? McDonalds boy?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 08:01

.