Codswallop

My reply was to Beckets comment to me. Im not use to this forum.

Sue,
no problem, we knew you were commenting to Beckett, you will eventually just ignore he/she like the rest of us usually do. he/she is trolling & stalking & out there, way out there.

I replied directly under the name but the comment appeared at the end. Did anyone see any comment I made, as a pot shot at Beckett.

pot·shot also pot shot (ptsht)
n.
1. A random or easy shot.
2. A criticism made without careful thought and aimed at a handy target for attack.

No, I didn't see that Sue.

Funky forum here, the discussion posts get moved around a bit and it's confusing to follow.

Welcome btw :=)

I guess being new to the forum I could be an handy target to someone like becket. Similar to be a newcomer in AA.

Ohhhh, Ive been reading and observing for quite some time. I run low on energy at times and then I feel the need to express my opinion, after being deprived for so many years.

Sue,
yep it's good to speak what you feel & think after no speak for years or being subjected to the thought police @ !2 step. no you didn't pot shot him/her or anyone. he/she like a true fanatic just takes any & all opinions that differ from his/hers personally & gets enraged & indignant, like any stepper fanatic does in person. according to qualified, educated & licensed professionals they recommend talking/ "gossiping" about anti social behaviors you've been subjected to, consider it healthy & beneficial for well being.

Yes Patti, very healthy to speak without having all your questions answered with slogans and your concerns viewed as meaningless. It starts with statements made as if there facts. When confronted they resort to avoidance and attempt to redirect the subject. Passive aggressive behavior seems to be the norm.

Sue,
yep, your concerns, views, thoughts & even your feelings are meaningless, unworthy & also wrong, even how you feel! how can that be? not reality. and it's abuse, to be told over & over that your thoughts & interpretations are wrong. Yeah, you can't ever call them out, they won't answer, quote a absurd saying, etc. etc. talk in circles, deflect, passive aggressive & they pray for you! yikes. Welcome.

don't have to provide link/documentation about coerced attendees, it's common knowledge that they have been the bread & butter for book sales & donations for years. if sentenced members were to cease a lot of meetings would collapse, book sales & donations would go way down. everyone, even the public knows that drunk driving convictions have been carrying AA for years.

it's the reason that AA & NA do not have a "do not sign" documents policy. Absolutely do not sign or participate in any individual being forced to attend meetings, that is not there voluntarily, that does not have a desire to stop drinking or using drugs, that doesn't get to be there anonymously. It is a blatant contradiction of AA's written policies & they openly disregard their own policies & participate in the coerced attendance. Cause there is something in it for them, survival. AA would be 60% smaller than the already paltry 2 million supposed real members that they are estimated to be.

Easily annoyed & agitated over the slightest thing, always bothered, irritable, angry, disturbed. Doesn't take much to upset or rattle you.

Avo,
it is funny & absurd. it's just a convenient dumping spot, really a benefit for AA, new bodies, more donations, fills the rooms, feed the beast. I have to say it is a punishment for a convicted dui offender, but having to pay money for some type of help to not drink & drive again, in addition to the other fines & costs, would probably be a better deterrent to stop offenders & would probably benefit public safety by keeping drunk drivers off the road. It's ironic, a few people I know that were not alcohol addicts, but did drive drunk & get convicted & attended AA as a punishment, told me they immediately headed out for a drink after every meeting they attended cause they needed one! They felt depressed due to the meetings & the members. They all were driving, to the meetings & then to the bar & then home.

This is an AA myth that a convicted offender is given a choice between AA or jail. Do you actually think a convicted offender stands before a judge in any court in the world & they discuss the punishment & an offender gets to tell the judge that they "INSIST" on going or not going to jail? Do you really think a judge says to an offender, well it's up to you to accept do you want to go to jail or AA? You know that judges are given definite & mandatory sentences for Dui's. The judge doesn't get to decide or accept a punishment either. First offense without any accident being involved can be ARD. Other variables BAC, the higher the BAC, the more penalties. For a first & 2nd dui, without an accident involved the punishments vary from state to state. They will work out jail time, you can do weekends, instead of losing your job & serving 30 days consecutively. 3rd dui, definite jail time & usually consecutively, no longer working with you to just do weekends. 3rd dui in Louisiana is a solid 10 year state prison sentence, they get repeat offenders off the road for 10 years. No judge gets to decide or give an offender a choice between jail time or AA meetings. Each state dictates mandatory sentences & punishments for DUI's & judges have to follow them. Clara when you were being sentenced by a judge, did you feel it was a conversation where the two of you discussed what your punishment would be, what worked for you? I've never heard of a judge asking a convicted defender if the sentence was acceptable?

meant offender

And you don't get to please a judge, serving your sentence is not about pleasing a judge, it's about following a judge's orders & serving your AA time & sentence.

4th offense Louisiana anywhere from 5 to 10 years. Warden from Angola prison, said on documentary the mandatory 10 year sentence. web sites say different.

here is Louisiana's mandatory sentences.

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Louisiana DWI Penalties
Louisiana DUI/DWI Punishments and Penalties

FIRST OFFENSE DUI/DWI – FINES: $300-$1,000; JAIL: not less than 10 days – maximum 6 months (court may order probation with minimum 2 days in jail and participation in court-approved substance abuse program and driver improvement program, or probation with minimum 4 eight-hour days of court-approved community service (half must be litter abatement or collection), substance abuse program and driver improvement program. LICENSE SUSPENSION: 3 – 6 months.

FIRST OFFENSE DUI/DWI – BAC .15 OR HIGHER – mandatory minimum 48 hours in jail

FIRST OFFENSE DUI/DWI – BAC .20 OR HIGHER – FINES: $750-$1,000; JAIL: mandatory minimum 48 hours; LICENSE SUSPENSION: 2 years (may apply for a restricted license to be in effect during the entire period of suspension upon proof to the Department that his motor vehicle has been equipped with a functioning ignition interlock device. The ignition interlock device shall remain installed and operative on his vehicle during the first twelve-month period of suspension of his driver’s license following the date of conviction.

SECOND OFFENSE DUI/DWI - FINES: $750-$1,000; JAIL: not less than 30 days – maximum 6 months. Mandatory minimum 48 hours in jail. Court may allow rest of sentence to be served by home incarceration. Court may substitute sentence by placing offender on probation with minimum 15 days in jail and substance abuse program and driver improvement program, or probation with 30 eight-hour days of community service (half must be litter abatement or collection) and substance abuse and driver improvement programs. LICENSE SUSPENSION: 1 year; OTHER: Installation of an ignition interlock device for a period of not less than six months. In addition, the device shall remain installed and operative during any period that the offender’s operator’s license is suspended under law and for any additional period as determined by the court.

SECOND OFFENSE DUI/DWI – BAC .15 OR HIGHER – minimum mandatory 96 hours in jail

SECOND OFFENSE DUI/DWI – BAC .20 OR HIGHER – minimum mandatory $1,000 and 96 hours in jail; LICENSE SUSPENSION: 4 years (may apply for a restricted license to be in effect during the period of suspension upon proof to the Department that his motor vehicle has been equipped with a functioning ignition interlock device. The ignition interlock device shall remain installed and operative on his vehicle during the first three years of the four-year period of the suspension of his driver’s license).

THIRD OFFENSE DUI/DWI – FINES: $2,000; JAIL: not less than 1 year in jail with or without hard labor – maximum 5 years in jail. Minimum mandatory 45 days in jail. The rest of sentence may be served by probation, which includes at least 30 eight-hour days of community service and addictive disorder evaluation, including treatment in an inpatient facility approved by the office for a period of not less than four weeks followed by outpatient treatment services for a period not to exceed twelve months; OR substance abuse treatment in an alcohol and drug abuse program; AND home incarceration program for at least 6 months, but not more than the remainder of the jail term. LICENSE SUSPENSION: 1 year; OTHER: vehicle impoundment and auction sale (unless vehicle was stolen or if driver was not the owner of the vehicle and owner did not know driver was DUI), unless all towing and storage fees are paid by a valid lien-holder. In addition, the offender must install a functioning ignition interlock device on all vehicles they own or operate. The ignition interlock device shall remain installed and operative until the offender has completed the requirements of substance abuse treatment and home incarceration.

FOURTH OR SUBSEQUENT OFFENSE DUI/DWI – FINES: $5,000; JAIL: not less than 10 years – maximum 30 years. Mandatory minimum 75 days must be served in jail; court may substitute the rest of the prison term with probation of up to 5 years. Probation will include 40 eight-hour days of community service and either addictive disorder evaluation and treatment in an inpatient facility approved by the office for a period of not less than four weeks followed by outpatient treatment services for a period not to exceed twelve months, OR substance abuse treatment in an alcohol and drug abuse program, AND home incarceration for a period of time not less than one year nor more than the remainder of the term of supervised probation. LICENSE SUSPENSION: 2 years; OTHER: vehicle impoundment and auction sale (unless vehicle was stolen or if driver was not the owner of the vehicle and owner did not know driver was DUI), unless all towing and storage fees are paid by a valid lien-holder, and driver improvement program. In addition, the offender must install a functioning ignition interlock device on all vehicles they own or operate. The ignition interlock device shall remain installed and operative until the offender has completed the requirements of substance abuse treatment and home incarceration under the provisions of Subsections D and E of this Section.

VEHICULAR HOMICIDE – FINES: $2,000 – $15,000; JAIL: not less than 5 years – 30 years. Mandatory minimum 1 year in jail.

VEHICLE NEGLIGENT INJURY – FINES: up to $1,000; JAIL: not more than six months in jail.

FIRST DEGREE VEHICLE NEGLIGENT INJURY – FINES: up to $2,000; JAIL: up to 5 years.
Penalties For Underage DUI/DWI (under 21 year old) In Louisiana

FIRST OFFENSE - FINES: $100 – $250; OTHER: participation in screening and a court-approved substance abuse and driver improvement program

SECOND OFFENSE - FINES: $150 – $500; JAIL: not less than 10 days – maximum 3 months. Jail time may be suspended if offender is placed on probation with minimum 48 hours jail time OR at least 10 eight-hour days of court-approved community service activities (half of which are litter abatement or collection programs). OTHER: participation in screening and a court-approved substance and driver improvement program.
Penalties For Refusing To Submit To A Louisiana DWI/DUI Chemical Test

FIRST OFFENSE – FINES: $300 – $1,000; JAIL: not less than 10 days – maximum 6 months. Jail may be suspended if offender is placed on probation with minimum 2 day jail sentence or 4 eight-hour days of court-approved community service activities (half must be litter abatement or collection programs). OTHER: participation in screening and a court-approved substance abuse program and driver improvement program

Clara,
unfortunately those people I know sentenced to AA did not drink every day or night, were not addicted to alcohol. They made a dumb choice to drive while impaired & got caught. They picked & chose when they did or did not drink & that is not addiction. They did not drink on the days or nights they didn't go to AA meetings. If they went to the movies they didn't need a drink afterwards. AA has a negative impact on society @ large & also on individuals, those who attend voluntarily & then later realize it's a sad & crazy spot & those forced to attend who realize immediately it's a sad & crazy spot. Either situation & in many situations AA does & will continue to cause relapses & to promote having a drink to shower/wash it away. It's really great it's been such a positive for you & your husband, but unfortunately it cause's way more harm than good. I genuinely wish it was a positive situation & environment, but it just isn't.

meant fortunately they were not addicted, of course.

Clara,
unfortunately their are sad situations in life that motivate a person to drink & unfortunately AA meetings are one of those sad situations. As you wrote, the people who drank, drank because they chose to. Then drinking is a choice? I agree it is a choice for every one. Also AA doesn't work for people who do want help, over 95% are not helped by AA & as you well know many are harmed, & that is so sad & shouldn't be happening. If you believe that AA is not helped by ordered attendance are you going to act upon your belief & attempt to change that within your organization? You can be part of the solution Clara, it's your choice.

ALL drinking is done by choice. How would someone pick up a drink, put it to their mouth, and swallow, if they didn't choose/will to do that? How is that possible? Drinking is a complex, not reflexive behaviour which requires voluntary motor skills to do.

I am not sure what we are disagreeing on. My position is simple- whether one goes to AA meetings or not, drinking/ not drinking is a choice. I don't understand how it could be any other way. Congrats on your sobriety, you did it yourself.