Statistics

There are so many stats in that piece I'm not sure which ones you are referring to but I was surprised at the one in six going to a self help group in the USA. He aknowledged it would be very different in the uk.
I seem to remember when I was in AA that they thought that only about 2% of people that needed help here actually sought help and that they had a dismal success rate of only about 5 %.
Although things have improved over the years, I still feel that substance abuse is heavily stigmatised over here and so people do not seek it until they are really in a state. I did not tell my dr or attempt to go to rehab as I did not want it on my medical record which I am glad about. I would not have
Iiked to have been affected in similar way to the way Pennywise was treated and be forced into an inappropriate method which in my case could have brought on further problems.
I did talk to my dr about it after about 18 months of AA when I was depressed but none of the one on one psychiatric help is on my record as alcohol abuse or addiction and I did not claim on my insurance, I just paid cash to keep my record clean. I know of others who have done the same thing and so any form of statistics would not include the likes of me. The fact that many groups have a certain amount of annonimity would also make statistics difficult to create in any meaningful way.
The sad thing is that many people hear a bit about AA and are put off by it and don't really get the help they need. Others are funelled towards it by so called treatment centres when they really need a different type of help, similar to the type I had.
It is a shame hat AA has not been able to widen its horizons and embrace some modernisation over the years as it could then put it's vast infrastructure to much more effective use. Unfortunately it remains locked in the past held back by dogma and the religous zeal of many of its members. No pro AA person has ever come on this forum and really debated any ideas for change. They just come to defend the big book or dogma and say prayer is the answer. This reflects the views of many members and shows why it is ineffective in the UK which has far fewer religious people than the USA. In fact the USA is not typical in its religious views for a developed nation and so I do not believe something like AA could have taken off in the same way in europe.
Appart from the trendy celeb type recovery, where they love to tell their story in some trashy magazine you do not here much about how hard it is to get proper help in the Uk especially if you are poor. Very few people in the Uk could afford the type of treatment that I received and there is nothing like it on the national health. This is very sad as it obviously had a major effect on me in a relatively short time frame which is what I needed. It was certainly a better approach for me than wasting time in a 12 step group. These techniques are available and I was pleased to see them discussed in books by Amy Lee Coy and Hank Hayes and it is tragic that they have not been absorbed into the mainstream recovery network over here. It takes time for attitudes to change and no Uk government will sanction any meaningful research or resources if means taking away funding for something like cancer. They also do not like admitting that social problems and cultural issues for which they must take a share of the blame are also major factors which drive addiction and other mental problems. A 1930 's religious solution is not going to have any effect in most of these places.

Pro-AAers who have come on this form have been explicitly told NOT to debate any ideas for change. They have been beaten with the mantra that this is an Anti-AA site, that no one wants to discuss change in AA, that that is not the purpose of this site, that AA sympathizers should take it elsewhere.

I've asked questions and tried to look into what is infuriating people so about the 12 steps but it usually comes down to these things: the God shit, 13th stepping, who is using whose park areas for outdoor meetings, mandates coming in from the courts, the "so-called principles" of the program, etc., etc. There is no discussion about changing AA for the better here. This is a bitching forum. People who believe they have been victimized by the program, the gurus, the steps or the coffee come here to point the finger and ridicule anyone who has benefitted from some aspects of AA.

Don't lay that shit on the pro-AA people here. The Antis do not want to hear it - they just want to fester in their own indignant rage.

judge becket ya forgot that AA kills people, as do religions.

Oh well, have a nice day now.

You are the ones that turn it into bitching because all you do is promote your 12 step stuff which everyone is tired of and has moved way from. I don't feel the antis are festering in rage - I'm certainly not angry and simply view yours and others attempts to derail anything on here because it is not praising your precious little program as a sad reflection of the self righteous idiocy that prevails in 12 step groups. you are effective in putting many off a 12 step solution.
You have listed many reasons why people don't like 12 step and God shit is certainly one of them.13 stepping is another problem as are other forms of predator but these are not being dealt with in the large inner city areas that have some dodgy meetings. AA would rather rely on some out dated traditions written by a mad man to protect it's members rather than do anything useful.
I have watched many fail and go back to drinking whilst being AA members - so it does not seem to be a great solution for many even if they do happen to believe in god or do a step 4.
If working the steps has improved you in any way I dread to think what you were like when you started. You certainly don't sound like a stable 60 year old that anyone should take any advice from.
You claim to be picking us off one by one but you are simply making an arse of yourself. I'm sure you fit in well in a dirty old scout hut with battered chairs with a bunch of losers but you have not added anything of note here as far as I can see other than a load of feeble personal attacks and some bleating. Nobody takes you seriously so nobody will bother debating anything with you. Perhaps it is time for another step 4 for you or perhaps you could do something useful like stack chairs and sweep up after a meeting with all your experience.

What's wrong with bitching? Nothing, bitching is healthy, especially after an anti social experience like 12 step. Bitching, complaining, acknowledging things are really wrong with 12 step is healthy & positive change, it's the opposite of being Bill washed & going along with Billshit & contributing any more money or time or promoting, advertising & supporting the fat cat's with jobs & the book sales & the bogus 12 step rehabs.

Nothing's wrong with bitching. Is it healthy?
http://voices.yahoo.com/bitching-way-good-health-8177859.html

Best one yet. Five steps and a SMART reference:
http://lifecoachesblog.com/2007/05/04/why-stop-bitching-when-it-is-thera...

Thank you, Alkie. My sponsor used these very things with me. After all, I am in a program of action. It is also why I mention to some of these people that they are as in AA now as they ever have been because Lee, the head of our ladies network, believed if something continues to dominate your thoughts, how have you "left it"? Doesn't matter if it is a man, AA, any bad situation.... While kvetching may in fact be healthy, as with most things, moderation also applies.