Orange Papers (and Clancy I.) Mentioned in Article @ TheFix

That is a good piece and sadly shows how some of those groups have influence in mainstream AA. It also points out the AA does next to nothing about it and that many have experienced 13 stepping.
I am not surprised 13 stepping is so often tried in those groups as anyone there for a long time would never have any luck in the outside world with women, they are just too weird.

“there probably have been some excesses, but they have helped more sober alcoholics in Washington than any other group by far.”

Clancy I, quoted above

"Of course, I don't condone everything the Nazis do. Anti-Semitism? Bad, naturally. I suppose Hitler sees a Karl Marx in every Jew."

Frank Buchman - The New York World Telegram, August 26, 1936

A similar brand of apologist?

That you can't comment on that piece? It may have been just a little controversial for them to allow it. The article pretty much does call out the Pacific Group and Midtown along with its leadership.

Not only was it influential in the treatment of addiction, it also serves as a spiritual touchstone—and a cautionary example—for modern-day AA meetings that have been branded as cults, including both exposed and more-or-less definitive examples (Washington, DC’s Midtown Group) and those that are much more open to debate (LA’s Pacific Group).

J. R.,
I read the threads & posting was available. surprised @ post's also, no one is indignant or outraged yet!

pie,
yep, that's what they used to do to us in person, glad that's over. Now all we are stuck with is reading their nonsense! It's good to be free from that mind fck.

Great article - thanks for bringing it to our attention.

As a side note, I was interested in what someone from aacultwatch.uk said in the comments. I drop into their site from time to time, and they posted the whole of their "minority report" on their website, and have been talking about it for at least six months. It was telling that this was rejected out of hand because it mentioned "outside organizations"!! Not much evidence of open-mindedness there or indeed of any kind of rational thinking. It seems that AA will come up with any excuse not to take into account anything that might be seen as critical of the way their organization works, even if that criticism comes from its own members.The Orange Papers was mentioned in the report, in the context that the existence of cult-like groups and cultish practices was leading to a lot of legitimate criticism of AA, and that AA as an organization would be wise to take it seriously. AA has proved exactly the point that they were trying to make.

At the moment, the cultwatch people are faithful steppers who feel that AA is a generally good force that is being tainted by individual cult-like groups. They were careful to frame their report within the context of AA's own stated purposes and traditions (as if this would make any difference). Hopefully this experience will lead them to recognize that corporate AA really does not give a toss as long as the newcomers keep coming and the money keeps rolling in, and equally does not give a toss in any way about the "suffering alcoholic" who approaches AA hoping to get help and finds (at best) that there is none there.

duplicate

Great find, PIE, looking forward to digesting this when I have more time. And it's a bit odd to see something like that on The Fix since they are typically pro step. I wonder if some of the comments are starting to have an effect on them and their views. I'm also wondering if the comments were slow to come in because it's being heavily moderated. But to anybody who doesn't say that AA members are told to get off blood pressure meds, etc.:

"And he’s not the only one: From Dallas to Anaheim, from Phoenix to Bainbridge Island, Wash., you can read online about larger-than-life men—and they are almost always men—who have transformed their own little chapters of AA into personality cults based on their own interpretation of the 12-Step gospel. Here, age-inappropriate sex might masquerade as sponsorship; rejection of friends and family might go hand-in-hand with rejection of pushers and enablers; and using medications to control your blood pressure might be viewed as negatively as popping pills to get high.

But I'm sure it will still be denied. Hell, if you can deny "Sober Living" admitting to the same thing, you can deny anything. In fact, I've seem more blatant forms of denial from AA and its members.

BTW, humanspirit, I tried to read that minority report and found it a bit repetitive, but of course what do you expect from steppers? Anyway, I suffered through most of it. But I also noticed the minority report also mentioned Stinkin-Thinkin. Nice. 8 )

What I could never undertand is why Clancys drunkalogue was more powerful than any other persons. If someone compared Clancies story to mine for instance he would be a whiner. I have seen Clancy speak and his bottom was nowhere near where alcohol and blow took me. So why is he so revered as a know-it-all? Never understood this. I have also read many testimonies about AAers doing work at Clancies house for free. Unbelievable but true