Is there any other 'medical' treatment

I've been wondering the same thing for a few years. Told my family doctor, he told me had to attend a few meetings during medical school & he thought the people & the meetings were really weird. He has never sent a patient of his to AA or NA. He told while @ the meetings, he felt hinky, just got a bad vibe, a gut feeling that it was unhealthy. After I spoke to him, he did some research, learned the failure rate. He said he felt he could put a patient on their head & spin them 3 times & tell them they could now stop drinking or drugging & the results may be better than AA's 3%. A way we can all begin is to inform our doctors, tell nurse's you know & tell school teachers & counselors, any one in a professional capacity for caring for others. I once read on a site or a an article describing AA, that every doctor & medical professional should have their license revoked if they send any patient to AA or NA. It's not a medical treatment or any treatment & it's a harmful, dangerous & detrimental environment. I feel the most dangerous aspect is the psycho babble, convincing vulnerable people that they are addicted to an addictive substance because of character defects, personal flaws, selfishness, immorality, etc. How can this place still be around? Addicts are already exhausted & embattled & then to go to AA or NA & be belittled & verbally, mentally & emotionally abused. It's really a frightening experience & place & group.

Also that could be the basis of a precedent lawsuit. A doctor that advises AA or NA for a patient & then the already fragile patient suffers damages, there are just so many ways people are harmed by AA, I guess the worst being suicides. When I explained to my M.D. my experience, I was so relieved @ his response, he knew better than to send any patient to a faith healing group.

Decon - are you gonna meet me outside the Santa Monica Courthouse to hand out flyers?

"Is there any other 'medical' treatment that followers will lie, be deceptive, and stalk people in order to 'help' them?"

The entire medical industry, for starters, with varying grades of ethics from high (very little lying, deception, ambulance chasing, squirrely marketing) to very low. Advertising is full of come-ons for drugs with sketchy track records. It's just the way of the world. Caveat emptor.

One thing I know for sure. If my local hospital for cancer treatment told their patients to work the 12 steps to find reprieve for their disease, there would be an uproar. Hospital staff wouldn't be able to pass through the picket lines to get into work.

Treatment centers for substance abuse get away with this practice because no one gives a fuck about addicts. Regardless of the disease theory, people think we need a confessional because steppers support that thought. "All I needed was a spiritual awakening". Yeah, 97% think they need church services. The rest of us need modern medicine, a scientific approach, or some logical support to help find relief.

is that people who can make a difference don't know the truth. AA has had 75 years or so and has, by default, built up a kind of monopoly in the area. A few months ago I asked my doctor what she knew of alcohol self-help groups. AA is the only one she had ever heard of. To her credit, she said she doesn't tell people to go as she didn't think it worked. I told her about SMART and sent her some info and she seemed interested. I must ask again next time I see her. These things usually take a few times before anyone does anything about them.

Another organisation I have links with is a local homeless charity. Homelessness and alcohol/drug abuse go hand in hand so these people have a pretty good take on how effective AA is. They won't send anyone to AA...lol. However, even their director who has to be informed on modern thinking and methods was at a bit of a loss when it came to alternatives. Last summer I told him about SMART and we looked into the practicalities of it etc and he's sold on the idea.

He loved the Orange Papers too. He said it has been an enormous help to him. He knew that AA didn't work but often came upon steppers or AA adherents and had difficulty explaining why he was against AA. 1 guy against 75 years of propaganda machine is a bit uneven...lol. The OP gave him all the information necessary to make an anti-AA case. What we must always remember is that very few people know the truth about AA.

It's fine chatting away on here, but getting the word out is what is going to change things. Next time I go to my doctor, I'll ask her how she thinks. I'll then start a blog "What my doctor said" or some such. If everyone else on here does the same, ie next time you visit ask your doctor what they think about alcoholism/AA etc, then we might start building up a picture of how it really is.

Ben,
you are exactly right. This forum is for the people who are currently in a 12 step & starting to come out of the fog & as abuse victims looking for validation that the way they feel is accurate. They are told over & over in the 12 step isolated world that any & all of the critical thinking is dangerous to being clean & sober & that of course there is something wrong with them to question the insanity, double speak, contradictions, etc. It is important & imperative that we get the word out, to anyone. I discussed AA with 3 good friends in the last few days & they were all appalled when I told them of my experience & the foundations of 12 steps. They now will always advise any one they know not to go. I explained to them as well as my doctor that 12 steps preaches that you have a spiritual sickness & character defects & flaws & due to this you have become addicted to an addictive substance. Every one I have told is appalled & they had no idea. The doctor did have a bad feeling & impression & has trusted it & never recommended. I even tell people I met who are in 12 step. Met some poor guy with an injury walking down the street, had a bad knee replacement, complications & had to go re surgery. He explained to me how he won't take pain meds, so his recovery from surgery is agonizing. Why not? I knew what his answer was going to be, I'm in AA, have had a drinking problem my whole life. We talked & talked, he was receptive to my info. I could see the light in his face when the things I said had an enlightening impact, when his mind realized I had just told the truth. Also the confusion & bewilderment on his face when I spoke of Wilson & his disgraceful being & behaviors. He told me his surgeons felt he would be okay if he took the pain meds post operation & I hope I convinced him to listen to his surgeons instead of the boneheads @ his AA group. I was @ a meeting once & some poor guy had taken pain meds after an oral surgery & due to what had been brainwashed into his brain, then got drunk a week later, cause he was told over & over this is what would happen if he took medicine for pain. I don't believe he slipped due to the medicine I believe he slipped due to the negative brain washing he was taught to believe in AA. Getting the word out is a positive start. Each person we tell will tell a few others & so on. I have a dream, that someday a big dog in the media will do an expose, 20/20, 48 hours, dateline, etc. & then many people will learn that AA is not a benign & altruistic organization but a crazy, faith healing & abusive mind control group.

Same here Patti, that's a dream that we all seem to share. I enjoyed the picture I had in my mind when you wrote about the man with the bad leg, and how his face brightened when he heard the truth from you. It was probably somewhere in his mind, something I experienced early on in the program, but couldn't grasp. Either that or I was too scared to.

I've spoken to people in the professional world too. My counselor for one, who in turned shared information with her associates. None of what I said couldn't be backed up by a source easily found online. Some people actually like the truth. Especially when they receive positive reinforcement. "Trust yourself".

Ben & Avogadno,
Definitely the professionals of tomorrow & any one else we can inform & advise. This girl can now have a truthful career, not innocently be under the impression that AA is helpful or even benign. Word of mouth, can do a lot of positives, can have a lot of power & impact. Many medical & social professionals aren't aware of what AA really is or the public, they just don't have any knowledge of the madness & malignancy of 12 step programs. Trust yourself is the best thing any vulnerable person can do. What is good about this & our situation is that it can be validated on line, in publications & I think there may be more groups that exist on line & in life that are anti AA, than AA itself. AA may have bigger membership & older & more established, but it's critics are becoming larger & louder. One thing AA has in it's favor is that former members are often so battered by their experience they just need to have a complete severance from 12 steps & any thing to do with it. But I'm focusing on the positives & what we can accomplish with word of mouth, a marathon run begins with one step, same with this situation. I'll keep talking.

Beckett,
you project here that lawsuits aren't positive. The objective of a lawsuit especially a precedent is that it makes people wake up & stop harming others or there will be financial consequences. People pay attention & are more careful & informed & conscientious if not doing those things is going to cost them money. If a doctor or other medical professional were to be sued for advising a patient to seek treatment @ a 12 group, which have no professionals, no medical training, licenses, no qualifications whatsoever & then that patient is detrimentally harmed, damaged or hurt, the medical professional is @ fault. No doctor or medical professional should be advising AA or NA to any addict, no 12 step group or organization is qualified to treat a doctor's patient so it isn't medical advise or treatment & it shouldn't ever be mentioned. If it takes a lawsuit to inform Doctors that AA & NA aren't good advise & are unhealthy & damaging environments, then that is what it is going to take. Why you think a lawsuit isn't a solution to a big problem is ignorant. You know lawsuits have created a safer & more conscience world, work environments, schools, the medical field, discrimination & on & on. Lawsuits have improved safety, ethics & the quality of many, many situations & life for many, many people. You seem to think it is derogatory of me to consider a lawsuit against negligent damages & situations as a valid solution. You seem to view lawsuits as a bad thing, you are so wrong about that. Isn't Racehorse Haynes dead & additionally he was a criminal defense attorney. Lawsuits benefit many people, even you. Do you think you could ever be happy? Wouldn't you be happy if a better solution for helping addicts stop their addiction could happen & help solve the problem? Wouldn't you be happy if something was more successful than 3% & that people weren't further damaged by AA & NA?