Anyone Ever Think About Suicide?

Ironic's picture
Submitted by Ironic on Tue, 05/08/2012 - 09:07

Do any of you really just hate life either way? My life isn't manageable when I'm high, and no matter how long I kick dope for, it doesn't get better. High was just always something I did instead of suicide.

Anyone ever think about the most painless way to go? I'd think it would be an overdose. It would cost a hell of a lot of money for me to overdose on anything, that's for sure. Besides, if I was high I wouldnt want to kill myself until it was gone.

I graduated, and I feel even worse.

I've got an appointment at 1:30 for a hepatitis screening. I have a little money but no proof of income. I hope they'll see me. My girlfriend has lupus, so if I have hep..well, it would have to end, huh?

Comments

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:48

There is actually a stepper website devoted to this expression.

http://www.livinglifeonlifesterms.com/

"Living Life On Lifes Terms is learnng to create the terms by which you want to live your life. Choices and changes are what life is all about".

Can't get any less philosophic as that!

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:58

Good lord.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 20:05

lol Penny. That's what I said. If it was the fucking simple than they should have never said a word. That's all anyone ever does anyway (if they can get away with it).

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 00:20

Maybe they are appealing to the least common denominator. Not everyone is as bright and perceptive as you.

You claim to advocate for the downtrodden, the abused, the beaten, the weary. Can you not imagine that someone feeling these things, who has never had a choice in anything, ever, could come across this concept and be hopeful?

Not everyone does Thomas Aquinus, Aristotle, William James or Lao Tzu.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:43

Miss Becket, supporting a person that has different beliefs than I do or that incorporates different coping methods is not a problem for me. I'm actually pretty good at doing this (I've been told), despite how much I might disagree theoretically. The problem for me comes when I'm expected to embody the same approach or even pretend that I find it universally acceptable.

I know Ironic well enough to understand that she wouldn't appreciate a comment such as "live life on life's terms". Especially in her position. It's actually a callous remark when coming from a known stepper and being offered to a known former AA. When it comes down to it, I think I was playing more than fair. I could have used some choice words to express myself and make my point. Similar to what you once said you are doing, I'm trying to refrain from jumping into a boxing match at every opportunity, regardless as to much I feel it is deserving and/or suitable under the circumstances.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 15:35

I enjoy living life on my terms. Just sayin'. Maybe Ironic does as well, though she obviously uses different methods than I do. I never got the "life on life's terms". The whole "happiness in slavery" thing was never in my line.

Sorry, I'm not bashing you personally, Clara, I just still get a bit irate when I see one of those goddamned slogans. Wow, it's amazing how much you think you deprogram and then you see one of the slogans and have to hit "reply" just because it makes you that upset. Apologies again, carry on.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 15:39

If you can't reply to AA mindlessness on the Orange Papers, where can you!

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 15:58

Happiness in slavery? Never heard that one.

PIE, I heard that long before I ever joined AA. The first time I ever heard "Live and let live" was from my hippie second cousin that wore ponchos and rode a Triumph. Lived in a tent in Colorado. Most of what people refer to as AA slogans are things I heard in completely different contexts before I got there.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 16:14

"Live and let live" is NOTHING like "live life on life's terms", which I've heard NOWHERE outside of xA in those words. The only comparable slogans I can even think of are "them's the breaks", and "life's hard", which are just sentiments really, or other sayings that deal with "taking your lumps" as they come to you. Just living while letting others alone to do the same is nothing to do with how the slogan you used is actually used in xA, which more often than not is an admonition to someone who is either complaining or trying to fight a circumstance they're in. Admittedly, sometimes they are getting whiny, but that said, sometimes they're not doing something harmful, just kvetching. You've really never seen an AA wag their finger when you try to share while saying, "life's terms....life's terms". I stopped sharing entirely due to that sort of childishness. That and annoying people who'd say, "stinkin' thinkin'". Told you, those slogans really hacked me off.

Happiness in slavery? Really? Check out Story of O sometime;) Might be right up your alley. As a shared concept though, I believe the phrase speaks for itself. That might just be me.....

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:13

PIE, I was equating the two, just adding yet another saying that I heard long before becoming involved with AA.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:29

They have different meanings.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:32

Wasn't, Ben. Sorry.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:40

Clara, not really, you had been tying it in to Ironic's inability to feel anything but complete depression when she doesn't use. Using that slogan as a means to say she isn't "living life on life's terms" because she is not abstaining from recreational drug use. That slogan always comes as an admonition, ALWAYS, and it was brought up that way here by you as well.

Personally, I'm less concerned about her desire to use drugs (hell, plenty of people smoke weed) than her unhappiness when she doesn't use them, but that's something I'll likely discuss off this board rather than on;)

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 18:09

It isn't just weed, PIE.

What she described is just what Clancy talks about, too, as to why he kept relapsing.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:45

Clara, what is it that Clancy kept talking about that wasn't just weed? I've kept myself out of the Clancy fray, actually, and know next to nothing about the man.

In any case, you don't (IMHO) aim AA slogans at someone who is posting about suicide and the horrors of sobriety when they've already said they hate xA methods. It never works. I've seen it a zillion times by now, and it's the most destructive and demeaning thing a person can do. Please refrain in the future, even if it wasn't directed at me. No, I'll amend that. It actually bothers me even more when it's aimed at people who aren't me. They're the ones I see lose hope and end up doing the deed. Seriously, in the subset of people who think xA is utter complete BULLSHIT, I've never seen this do anything good, if anything I've seen it cause huge amounts of harm.

Apologies to Ironic if she feels differently or isn't at all bothered by that slogan...on a thread about the contemplation of suicide....

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

massive's picture

massive

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 00:14

PIE- with you 100%.

Massive

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 00:41

If one feels - knows - that AA is bullshit, then one is utterly impervious to its slogans.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:04

PIE, at the time of my posting, the emergency was over. There isn't a slogan for it. Clancy kept relapsing because he couldn't deal with himself emotionally and ilfe in general when he was sober. He would go back to what he knew. Call it simply 'life' if you don't like the term. He described himself just as she did.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 07:02

Of course there's no slogan for it, this is the crux of the entire program. This is the moment in the lives of others where it's insisted someone follow the entire xA path. Surrender your will and "fake it till you make it", but by all means let them teach you how to be "happy" while sober. This is exactly where xA fails, every single time. When someone who doesn't want any part of the program is utterly MISERABLE facing sobriety, when they're at the point of contemplating suicide or even facing relapse onto their DOC (which isn't the case here, but...) to stop the awful feelings. People in THAT phase of desperation are not helped by "the program", they NEVER are, they never are able to tell a single person how to fix anything because their only answers are to "follow the program". It doesn't matter to xAs if people even end up dying, because they can't see anything in terms other than "the program": follow it or be quite obviously miserable.

Sorry, this just gets me upset every single time. xA is never equipped to deal with people who are suffering from terrible withdrawals, PAWS or severe depression and yet people in those exact situations are sent to those clowns for "help"! I realize that here no one is sending Ironic to those people, but they already have. And in this case, one of you guys showed up quoting slogans. "....the emergency was over"?!? I'm so happy you can put down depression and suicidal thoughts so easily.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 07:23

"....the emergency was over"?!? I'm so happy you can put down depression and suicidal thoughts so easily.>>

I can only go on what Ironic herself posted, PIE. I tend to believe that those were over for her based on her own information. She was happy to be going to Boulder and checking out someone's stash.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Brett

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 14:38

yes clara, Ironic & your precious clancy have the exact same "can't deal with themselves emotionally & life in general* problem, the solution would also be the same "work the steps (or die)"
Your not right in the head are ya.
the 6 beers shoulda warned me.
6 bloody beer binge. lmao

Brett

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 18:12

I remember when becket said that Terminally Unique" is a common saying, even in business, she said. I've never heard that outside AA. Why would someone being unique be "terminal" outside of AA? Nope, it's only a 12 step slogan, and another one of their self-fulfilling prophecies.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 20:01

C&E, I really hate that one. And no, I have never, ever heard that outside of xA. Period. You know what, someone in rehab actually told me to look that one up, "Ever heard of 'terminal uniqueness'? You need to look up the definition". Well, when I left (as if we could use the web there...or have access to any dictionary, let alone one that had that sort of phraseology in it), I did look it up. It wasn't even found on any sites except in relation to AA.

**I just looked it up again, because doorknob forbid I ever post anything w/o checking up on it, and there ARE now some references to this outside of AA! There was also this:

"Terminal uniqueness is an AA term coined to describe a reaction common to 12 steps newcomers. While a rare few attend their first meeting and feel instantly at home, most, a real majority, suffer through their first meeting thinking, "these people are nothing like me…what can I hope to learn from people like this".

Read more: AA and Terminal Uniqueness - Making 12 Steps Work " (From here: http://www.choosehelp.com/alcoholism/aa-and-terminal-uniqueness-are-you-...)

And, of course, the requisite forum threads elsewhere filled with alkies and addicts who can't spell their way out of a number of terminally unique paper bags, yet somehow have all the answers. Doorknob love 'em.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 20:10

"We admit we don't know much" but better listen or you'll die.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 00:34

How big is your world? Jesus, it's a widespread colloquialism. It is not linked strictly to AA - it is everywhere. Maybe you still can't catch the drift because you still can't dig the real meaning of the phrase. It has nothing to do with AA today - is has permeated the culture.

http://www.all-acronyms.com/Terminally+Unique+Designs
http://www.elyrics.net/read/l/lamb-of-god-lyrics/terminally-unique-lyric...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=terminally+unique

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:13

..

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:19

"And I should know, because I haven't been to AA for 22 years". Mad as a box of frogs...lol

Those links :-

1st one goes nowhere - 404
2nd one goes to a song recorded in 2012 - hardly embedded in the culture...lol
3rd one goes to a definition of "Shithead" - definition is "A perpetually drunk, never-nude, terminally ill woman who is allergic to her tongue and has many abilities and unique attributes."

Got any more "useful" links Marietta?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 03:59

And the lyrics for the song sounds exactly like they are talking about AA. There's an odd link in the middle I'm removing but here's the lyrics

Terminally Unique lyrics

There's nothing new under the gun
Cognitive dissonance
Wallow in sardonic fear while your will breaks like glass
Throw on the blinders, ignore the signs
Sink ever deeper, swallow the lie.
How far did you think that you could run?
You crossed the last meridian
As life passes you by.
Outside the fishbowl looking in
Clarity to bear witness
Oblivious and obstinate
And you're a fucking mess.
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/l/lamb-of-god-lyrics/terminally-unique-lyric... ]
Seal all the exits, tie your own hands
Burn all the bridges, head in the sand.
How far did you think that you could run?
You crossed the last meridian
And it's all coming down now as the clock ticks on
Your life is passing by.
Awaken.
Singing the same tired old song
Predictable and somnambulant
Suffering from terminal uniqueness
When will you awaken?
Your life is passing by.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:48

I noticed the same thing c&e, Ben. I suppose she might have thought no one would check the links out. As if 1) We would assume that the information was accurate. 2) We don't care about searching for the truth.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 10:47

Apologies for the bad link; sometimes it happens. The other info was simply to demonstrate that the phrase "terminally unique" is in the lexicon, with and without a nod to recovery. Take it or leave it, it doesn't matter to me.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:38

Yeah, you're probably right, Becket. I just am incapable of "digging" the meaning of terms used to insult me...ooops, sorry, I meant "lovingly" nudge me into the xA way of seeing things.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 10:45

You know, Persephone, I don't have any concerns about the way you see things until you become somewhat myopic. Then the nudging is only about reminding you that there are other views out here. What term have I used to insult you?

I don't care if you practice any or none of the things you may have encountered in the 12 steps. But in all fairness, can you not admit that you give as well as you get on the insult spectrum when it comes to AA?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 11:36

Yes, I get defensive about things I encountered in xA, slogans included. I don't normally, nor do I go off on rants in my everyday life about them. I do here, however, and that's one of the slogans that was used insultingly against myself and others while "in recovery", so yes, I got defensive about it. I tend to do that on the OPF. It's my one outlet for this topic. I was referring not to you in the present, but to people who've used that bit before IRL. Sorry for not being more clear on that.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:51

It just means accepting what you have or what you are.

I prefer to change that if I so desire and have the gumption.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

gigi

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:08

What is "real recovery?"

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:18

Not chasing the high. I think substitution is the same thing. My husband did that from drugs to alcohol because the Navy did urine tests on submariners. Went to rehab for alcohol and there you have it. Just MHO, though.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 00:35

Sorry, but doesn't everyone here really need to reflect on that and provide an answer to the question?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

gigi

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 14:55

Maybe. Maybe not. I asked Clara because she used the term "real recovery" in a post without expanding on what it constitutes. I was curious.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 15:16

Yes, and now you see, I'm curious, because there seem to be varying degrees of tolerance with regard to drug and alcohol usage here, whether it be among AA members, former AA members, or people who have left AA in disgust. What, for instance, is your understanding of "real recovery", gigi?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

gigi

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 16:07

Honestly Becket, I don't have a hard and fast rule or concept of "real recovery." I don't know what that means or why someone should pass a judgement on something not qualifying as "real recovery." Which is what Clara did and does on a regualr basis. That's why I asked. In my own personal case, I don't drink anymore. At all. And I'm good with that. I guess that's real recovery.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 16:15

Fair enough. Straight shooting. Thank you.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 16:52

I don't have a singular definition of recovery because there are many things one can recover from and many ways to do so. To me, recovery from alcoholism is to cease drinking in a harmful way. That can be moderation for many people, and it's been proven that many can do so. Recovery can also be abstinence for others. But there are many other forms of recovery, such as recovering from a traumatic experience.

Personally, I choose to not drink and that's the way I like it. Someday, I may choose to change my mind and try moderation. If I did, I certainly would never blame a "strange mental blank spot" or a disease. I think it's a possibility because I was a moderate drinker most of my life, and in fact, probably drank less than most people.

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Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 17:38

I did not come out here to smoke med grade. That is happily incidental. Thanks for offering to send me some, but you don't live in an MMJ state and I mean, sure you say it is medical but..I can buy stuff that someone says is medical at home. I've never seen anything like this shit, it is great. Fortunately for me I am happy with the weed/hash/edibles and happily sip my coke at ladies night.

I came out here to visit my oldest friend (18 years). She just graduated from CU. I may get to see snow tomorrow..it would only be the second time ever, so that is pretty neat.

My iPhone internet isnt working right now (tethered jailbreak) issues which is why I haven't been on much. I gotta catch up.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 17:45

Hey Ironic! I hope you're having a good vacation, no matter what you're there for! Boulder's a great town. Take it easy;)

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 17:46

Ah, but New Mexico IS a mmj state and that is where I got it. I live 9 miles into the state of Texas, and my sister lives in as Cruces. She says it is nothing like what they used to smoke in the "old days." Okay, perhaps not THAT long ago, but I thought it was interesting to read about the farming efforts that go into it.

I hope you have a great time, Ironic. Boulder rocks. My nephew's band plays there from time to time.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:21

"Everyone is encouraging using"?

A few people did, others didn't. You are again completely exaggerating and over-generalizing. I would personally rather hear that advice 100 times over before "grow up".

Would you say the same to a 40, or 50 year old? What about to a person with chronic depression? Grown ups, such as you think of yourself, are just as capable of feeling suicidal as anyone else, including a child or elderly person. Telling anyone to grow up is an insult to them. That's one of the last things that they need to hear when they are down in the dumps. Psych 101 Clara.

All of us that have abused substances know that using is not a long term solution to our problems. I'd rather anyone use today, rather than give up their chances on seeing tomorrow. If that's what it takes to change the course of such dreadful thoughts, so be it.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:17

Avo, I've known a number of people that use different strategies for putting down the drink. Some require detoxing, which alone could kill someone. But if you are still using he valium a year later, it isn't about detox. It's substitution. I know people that go to meth clinics and have for three years, so is that a recovery effort? Or did they just trade one addiction for another, but bypass the street aspect to it, which makes it somewhat "healthier"? To the folks in AA that pick up the annual chips and feel justified in doing so (even while smoking pot all day) because they did in fact abstain from alcohol... While that might be technically correct, they are smoking pot but insisting there is no addiction to it. So when is anyone weaned off of a substance that creates havoc in their lives?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 06:55

You explained a persons choice as it pertains to their recovery from substance abuse. That's only a subset of how I was applying choice to a person's options regarding feeling suicidal depressed.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 07:28

"I know people that go to meth clinics and have for three years, so is that a recovery effort?"

I think it depends Clara. Opiate addicts that use methadone might prefer to stay on it forever rather than make the final jump into total abstinence. You also asked:

"So when is anyone weaned off of a substance that creates havoc in their lives?

Look at the addict that spends 3 years on methadone again. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are using a substance that is causing "havoc" in their lives. They are likely using it to cope with havoc, a result of having nothing else that helps them.

I probably could have went on methadone myself but I heard many horror stories about it so I decided against it. I actually had months of continuous clean time before I went on Suboxone. It wasn't the weaning process that I used it for. In retrospect I should have jumped on it from the start, but oh well. I can't change it. For me, using opiates and not using anything at all both caused many problems (different though). I started the Sub for medicinal reasons, not as a step-down process. If I feel the need to and can stay on this med forever than I will.

The point is that everyone is different. We used substances for different reasons and stopping has different effects. You seemed to have been taught and believe, that all substance use is equal to being habitually destructive and the cause of havoc. That's not necessarily true. I think it's close-minded to assume that Ironic using marijuana (or whatever) will result in chaos.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 07:48

Thank you for mentioning something that dogged me from the beginning of coming to OPF. I DON'T believe that all substance use is equal, which is why AA focuses on booze and booze alone. AA doesn't believe in step down beyond detoxing. It isn't a moderation program. It probably won't be the right choice for someone whose situation calls for that. If an addict is coming to AA looking for a whole lot of understanding of that, they won't find it there, IMO.

I personally don't care if someone wants to smoke pot, but I wonder often what the goal is. If the goal is to get off the drug that creates the most havoc for someone, okay, too. As I said, I know plenty of people that qualify drink as the bad guy but pot is all right, and still consider themselves to be clean. Given what you've just said, why do people find some of the definitions in AA to be contradictory? I think PEOPLE do that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

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