The Problem with Alcoholics Anonymous Funeral Crashers - the lowest of lows

JR Harris's picture
Submitted by JR Harris on Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:42

Alcoholics Anonymous Funeral Crashers are those who manipulate the grieving family of a person who has died due to complications due to "Alcohol Abuse." They are the lowest manipulators known to man at the present time and do it because they can. Hi-jacking a funeral to further the the "promotion, not attraction" of Alcoholics Anonymous is one of the most despicable actions that can be acted upon by these obvious low life forms.

Have you ever been to a funeral that was hi-jacked by Alcoholics Anonymous members? In your time of great grieving for a loved ones death, do you really want your last farewell to been turned into a circus of Alcoholics Anonymous slogans with the people who failed to help them because they claimed that their way was the only way? Of course not! Were the Alcoholics Anonymous members invited to the funeral to further their agenda of growing the fellowship? Did AA members show up in mass to play out their twisted "look at me" and "I told you this would happen" and "If only they had followed this simple program" of self gratification and obvious narcissistic agenda?

The death of a loved one is a very serious matter and should not be minimized by the drama and antics of Alcoholics Anonymous members that want to portray "its all about the program" and they were too late. It is only a suggestion, but it would be a good idea if AA members were not allowed at funerals, unless they agree not to pull this garbage on the family. Granted, it is a hard thing to do because it is a time of stress, but it should not be cheapened by arm chair evangelists that failed your loved ones anyway. Do you really know these AA members that showed up at the funeral? Did your loved ones even really know them or are they just jumping on the drama bandwagon to help themselves and play out some sick, twisted drama at yours and your loved ones expense? Think about it...........

Comments

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 16:22

becket that seems very mean , coming from someone whose a memeber of AA it's not surprising . cold and intolerent , and I can tell the steps have worked wonders in your life.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:00

But, dorak nob, I am not a member of AA. I'm simply someone who has observed all sorts of criticisms of the 12 steps on this board. Most people would tell anyone else they should be able to find serenity, sobriety, happiness, joy, etc. WITHOUT the steps. But since it's Ironic, they all want to fawn.

Nauseating in its double standard.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:11

then i guess I don't understand why you comment unless you work for the rehab industry , why would someone who's has nothing to do with AA give a damn , and people do care about Ironic . where is the double standard?

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:18

The double standard is this: the consensus on the OPF is that serenity, sobriety, happiness, etc. can be found after putting down the substance, the drug of choice, and that this can be achieved by sheer willpower. Ironic has not actually put down her substance but has tapered. Some may feel she is clean, others not; I don't care. But now she finds herself in an "unmanageable" situation (from which I'm certain she will rebound any second now and return with a vengeance toward me, about which I also have no concern).

Blah blah blah on the stopping by sheer willpower and LIFE GETS BETTER. So, Ironic's life did not get better in any appreciably level manner. If it's kosher for people to jeeringly suggest that AA members need just another 4th, 5th, 9th, or 10th step to find that elusive happiness, why is it NOT kosher to jeeringly suggest that to Ironic? Instead all fall in line to coddle and caress her. She's what, 23? And she's been playing this suicide card by her own admission since she was eight years old?

What a waste of a Tuesday. People who are truly suicidal actually commit suicide. They don't run it by a forum of soft places to fall, taking all loving temperatures on the lack of wisdom in such a move. How disingenuous.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

humanspirit

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:24

You are a truly disgusting person. But please stay on this forum - you are the best advertisement for how twisted and inhumane those of the 12- step persuasion can become if they're not careful. This could provide a very useful lesson to the casual passer-by here.

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 23:56

And you, "humanspirit", can keep bringing your patchouli-scented love and light to the misbegotten, your profound and caring wisdom to the unwise, and your non-judgmental critiques to those who pretend to care when you agree with them. Envelop them all in your pink, fluffy angel wings and protect them from the concrete and piss of the world.

L,
TDO

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 13:30

"The double standard is this: the consensus on the OPF is that serenity, sobriety, happiness, etc. can be found after putting down the substance, the drug of choice, and that this can be achieved by sheer willpower."

Who ever said that? The consensus is that it's sheer willpower that helps one quit drinking. It's consensus that doing so will make life better. That's just common sense. But I don't believe for one minute that anybody here would suggest that people don't need help with emotional issues after they quit their addiction. Personally I would suggest to anybody who was still unhappy to seek PROFESSIONAL help and avoid any 12 step counselors. AA is NOT sound psychology and not sound spirituality. People need real help, not cult rituals.

Becket, anybody that would jeer at someone who is suicidal is pure evil. That means you.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:17

Evidently some OPF don't share your view. msafrany, for instance.

Who's jeering? I merely pointed out that suicide is a choice, just like any- and everything else we do. Are you going to argue that people kill themselves because of a person, place, thing or institution drives them to it? I don't disagree that professional help is in order in some cases. Not jeering, dear.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 21:14

“Who’s jeering?” You are, of course, as always. I can’t believe you’re asking that! First you jeered here:

Do you now think Ironic should work a good fourth step? Maybe she would not be feeling suicidal right now. Why not track her down and give her all your wisdom, all your even-handed, equal opportunity wisdom.”

http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/comment/33153#comment-33153

Then you admitted that jeering was exactly what you were doing and why you felt entitled to do so here:

“If it's kosher for people to jeeringly suggest that AA members need just another 4th, 5th, 9th, or 10th step to find that elusive happiness, why is it NOT kosher to jeeringly suggest that to Ironic? Instead all fall in line to coddle and caress her.”

You’re just pissed of because people care about Ironic. Do you ever wonder, becket, if you were feeling suicidal, would anybody care? Would anybody come to you funeral if you did suicide? You are jeering, dear, and you've admitted to it. You are truly despicable.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 23:28

Gosh darn it, I must have got jeering mixed up with caring.

I don't feel one way or the other about your caring for Ironic. The girl needs looking after. But waving the suicide flag is such a juvenile thing to do. After all, how miserable can she be, after having just completed college (who paid for that??), having a lover who adores her, having medical coverage for at least another three years without having to slave for it, having a roof over her head (paid for), and having literally zillions of friends on the OPF buying into that schtick? Yeah, she's really fucking slumming it in the depths of despair. Everyone gets depressed. We cope. We don't resort to histrionics of this disingenuous sort.

Yeah, right, I'm the despicable one.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 23:55

1. You can't believe she's serious!
2. Read avogadno's take on your topic: "re: Double standard":
"I think that sobriety can be found by just putting the substance down. Does anyone not agree with that?. It is by definition what sobriety means. The serenity and happiness can be found too, but it doesn't magically occur for all that does. As much as the step work didn't help me get sober, just not using didn't help me find peace. It wouldn't make sense for me that I would have, since I didn't have it before I picked up. It was something I had to look for and work at. Occasionally I have it, other times I'm not so fortunate."

Check out msafrany's copious posts on the topic - he insists that people who quit on willpower alone will find real life out there, activities, friends, fulfillment.

I have no gripe with the professionals. Lots of people, even those unfortunates who are not drunks or junkies, often enlist the help of psychologists, social workers, psychiatrists, dietiticians, etc. I would not criticize them for one second for doing so.

What we have here is more communication failure. There is no consensus as to what sobriety is. Is it just not drinking or using? Is it that in tandem with pursuit of a happier life? Don't even mention common sense in this discussion. What may be common sense in your world may be apeshit crazy in someone else's. For instance, I said in my post which you so blatantly eschew that "this can be achieved by sheer willpower", referring to the "ability" to quit using or drinking without working some kind of program. My common sense tells me anyone who reads that will understand it. But you just have to be different, and you have succumbed to the irresistible temptation to depict me as painting the sober person's entire life with the broad brush of willpower alone. Misconstrued again, I'm afraid.

It's common sense that quitting will make life better? Ironic apparently disagrees with you, too. Don't share too much of your common sense with her. No telling what she might do.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 22:24

I think that sobriety can be found by just putting the substance down. Does anyone not agree with that?. It is by definition what sobriety means. The serenity and happiness can be found too, but it doesn't magically occur for all that does. As much as the step work didn't help me get sober, just not using didn't help me find peace. It wouldn't make sense for me that I would have, since I didn't have it before I picked up. It was something I had to look for and work at. Occasionally I have it, other times I'm not so fortunate.

Ironic is 23 (I think) and I am 41. I spent many years with suicidal ideation. It didn't consume me, it came and went. When I was 23 myself I went through a period like Ironic is now. Only difference was that I took a chair and smashed through the double paneled windows of a hospital room 5 stories up and tried to jump. It was a big mess.

I'm not looking for sympathy, that was a lifetime ago. I learned from that experience though and I can use that lesson to put into perspective what another person struggling is capable of. It took seconds for me to make a decision and act on it. I'm not sure what put me over the top (I can't remember), but I know it's possible for a person to go through that sudden surge of emptiness and react. I take it seriously, regardless of what I think that I "know". Regret is a much harder lesson, one that I take measures to avoid.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 23:35

If sobriety is nothing but turning off the spigot, who would want just that? Don't people want more out of not using or drinking than just being dry or abstinent?

As far as your question goes, the answer is Yes. Ironic doesn't agree:

"Do any of you really just hate life either way? My life isn't manageable when I'm high, and no matter how long I kick dope for, it doesn't get better. High was just always something I did instead of suicide."

Love,
The Despicable One

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:14

And now you claim to not be an AA member. You have no practical experience in what you are making comments on, you're just being a jerk now.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:19

I love you too, Mr. Authority Figure.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

humanspirit

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:10

It is not just mean, it is despicable.

And somehow these pro-AA (but ex-AA) people have the gall to come on here to lecture the rest of us.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:20

Not lecturing, just calling you out on YOUR SHIT.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

gigi

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 16:19

WTF's going on with that?

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

btnben's picture

btnben

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 16:25

I honestly think she doesn't realise how wrong she is. That is the response of a very sad, lonely and bitter person. Sympathy and disgust in equal measures may be required.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 17:01

GFY, btnben. Thanks in advance.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Tue, 05/08/2012 - 16:32

Read the letters that Orange gets and you will see many such instances of AA funerals being hijacked by AA members for their own purposes.
So your saying the letters are your best source. Lets go over to sober recovery and see whats posted over there. Shit if its posted it must be true. Your avatar of the justice scale is the biggest lie on the OP. You were not there! You have never attended a funeral of an AA member or have ever been involved with an AA group. You were and are an outsider so how the fuck do you think you know all about what goes on at a funeral for somebody that was a member of AA. Ill bet most of them dress and act better than you on your best day. Your such an asshole, really! Why would anybody put down people for paying respects? That is so petty. Maybe oneday you will make a friend Jr. Harris, wouldnt that be nice.

Brett

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 01:34

keep doing it, the trolls love it.

Brett

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:00

When a person that i know passes, I think about what the wishes of the deceased and their loved ones. Anyone that doesn't take those into consideration is being selfish. This includes AA's, distant relatives, casual friendships, etc. C&E gave a good example of an AA and a group crashing the funeral of a member after the family had explicitly made clear their wishes that AA's (Anonymous Assholes) not attend. It's thoughtless.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:18

To shed more light on your position, avogadno, it's not thoughtless. It is calculated.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 22:37

I'm capable of choosing my own words. Thanks but no thanks becket. If I thought that AA's were actually calculating their disrespectful engagements I'd step it up a notch in terms of my reproach.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 05/09/2012 - 23:21

Well forgive the fuck out of me for trying to support you on your far, far side of the fence!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 08:04

Whooaa, down girl. Please don't misinterpret what I say and react with such hostility. It's really not your style.

I was trying to imply that I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. It's much worse to assume that people know they are causing distress and do it anyway, rather than simply not considering that their action(s) could be harmful.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

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