Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and Suicides of AA Members (#1 in a series)

live_free_or_die's picture
Submitted by live_free_or_die on Sat, 05/05/2012 - 05:20

AA by its nature (a hokey religion) does indeed cause some "alcoholic" AA members to suicide.

Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and the “treatment programs” that it is has spawned (12 step programs) can be harmful to the individual alcohol abuser. The discussion following will discuss AA/12 step programs and the human condition.

For ease of discussion any use of AA will be meant to incorporate AA and the numerous 12 step “programs” of alcohol abuse.

Upon its founding (1935) and continuing to today AA claims its program is one of spirituality and not religious. AA and its fellowship continues this claim despite the fact that AA has been examined by numerous state and federal courts and these various courts have ruled that AA is a religion. AA is, without a doubt, a religion.

This AA religion teaches that any individual that embraces the program of AA is powerless over alcohol; their life is unmanageable as a result of alcohol. AA the religion insists that the alcohol abuser is full of character defects. AA the religion insists these numerous character defects must be admitted to, examined and removed in order to survive to live another day.

AA the religion insists that one must turn their life over to god in order to live another day; to not do so will result in the individual finding their self in jail, prison, institutionalized or, ultimately, dead. Powerful stuff no?

AA the religion, by it true nature, can cause fear, anxiety, restlessness, despair, hopelessness, depression, anger and numerous other human emotions that are detrimental to the human condition. AA the religion throws into this mix all the numerous character defects and then tells the AA newcomer that only god can help (by miracles) with their dire situation. Miracles Performed Here.

When god does not perform the miracle for the newcomer some will become even more depressed, angry, hopeless, etc.

**************************************************

Letters #1 & 2 received by Orange from readers of the Orange Papers.

#1 (posted earlier)

I forgot one thing. The suicide rate in AA of people sober longer than 15 years. Unfortunately a study has not been done, but the first eight years I was in AA, I knew (not just of, but knew) 17 people with over 15 years of sobriety, who committed suicide. Most of them were not "dry drunks". Also, I was present at a meeting where the husband of one member came in and shot his wife and then himself. I remember hearing for the next week how freaked people were that their "safe place" had been denigrated. I remember saying to people that they were nuts if this was their safe place as there were rapists, pedophiles, murderers, and other criminals sitting next to them at almost every meeting. If only I had understood the depth of that statement.

#2

Date: Sun, December XX, XXXX 1:45 pm
From: Anonymous
Dear Sir/ Madam,

I have enjoyed reading your material on the net concerning the AA cult. I spent 8 years of my life in this evil organisation. In that time I have seen many young men commit suicide, a direct result I believe of the program. I brought this subject up at meetings but of course they tried to put me down.
When I shared about being beaten by my parents as a child I was told to make amends to them! I just laughed loudly.

I have also seen sponsors, who think they're great spiritual masters, exploit women for sex. This is very common.

It is a difficult problem, as members believe deep down that they are right, that AA is perfect. Most disturbing of all is that they believe they will die if they leave AA, hence the appalling suicide rate. I live in XXXX, Ireland, but I believe AA is the same everywhere. Keep up the good work in exposing this evil cult.

Yours
Anonymous
***********************************************************

The above are unsolicited letters from readers of the Orange Papers that chose to write to Orange in emails and discuss their own experiences and thoughts on AA.

Orange responded to each one. I thank you Orange and salute you for your efforts.

I personally have no doubt in my mind that AA causes some AA members to suicide and that AA is, as a result of the AA religion, responsible for the suicides of some AA members. Not all, but some, and that is irresponsible and evil. This is my belief and it is real.

Comments

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 05:58

Under this theory of causation, wouldn't the exercising of most First Amendment rights have the potential to cause deaths? If so, and we started holding people responsible for those deaths, wouldn't that eviscerate many constitutional freedoms?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:00

that steppers will hijack the funeral of a suicide victim. They will do their chants in a circle, and mention all things step related.

There will also be some very nasty things stated at meetings about the deceased. It is inexcusable.

Blamedenial made a great video about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn-wSA5Nx2U&feature=relmfu

massive's picture

massive

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:47

thats right. Its always about them. Sick, sick , sick

Massive

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:22

Zero. This is my experience and it is real. YMMV.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:40

You may have just been lucky. Go to Dr. Bobs grave site June 10, 2012 in Akron, Ohio during the Founders Day "celebration" and then try and say the same thing.

Sunday June 10, 2012
Motorcade to Dr. Bob’s Grave*
Motorcycle Procession and Grave Side Memorial Tribute to Dr. Bob and his Wife Anne.
7:30 a.m.
Speaker: Justin C.

Source: https://foundersdayregistration.akronaa.org/index.php?option=com_content...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:23

Confession cults such as Alcoholics Anonymous will go to any lengths to make martyrs out of the death of someone. They belong to a despicable coven of members who "will go to any length" to recruit, promote and capture prospects to grow the coven, including desecrating the final good-bye of the people they have targeted with their deception.

I do find it interesting that "new" graveside memorials filled with slogans and innuendo are routinely practiced every year at Dr. Bobs grave in Akron, Ohio and Lois Wilson's grave in East Dorset, Vermont, but not planned for William Griffith Wilson (aka Bill W) in the months May and June. One such "celebration" is being held today May 6th, 2012. Notice there is no mention of Bill Wilson during the same celebration, even though it is being celebrated by the early home of Bill Wilson.

Pioneer Day - is always the first Sunday in May. This year it will take place on May 6th. There is a graveside service honoring Lois W., Anne B. and all the founders of Al-Anon at 11 a.m. A pot luck lunch follows at noon at The Wilson House. Bring your favorite main dish, salad or dessert. An Al-Anon speaker meeting will take place at 1 p.m. Thanks to local and distant Al-Anon groups, this day is always a perfect event!

Source: http://www.wilsonhouse.org/holidays.html

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:27

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:34

The 12 Steps of the confession cult of Alcoholics Anonymous obviously are trying to make it so when they mandate that the same convoluted steps are proudly chanted at each meeting and often have them placed on the wall like the Ten Commandments.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:28

Exactly - Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:27

I also think it is disgusting DeCon.

Persephe and I were talking of this very thing. I hope she doesn't mind me sharing about her friend, a devout atheist -RIP- that passed after being shunned by his XA group. They had the gall to show up at his funeral and take it upon themselves (were not invited to) use his personal guitar and sing Christian songs in his memory.

I am floored at the lack of respect they had to him and his family. This was wrong on so many levels. The self righteous and undignified acts of those steppers helps put into perspective the charade of 12 step programs.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 13:10

How did they get their hands on his "personal guitar"? And why would that be more offensive than if they used their own guitar(s)? Did the "personal guitar" have a ghost attached? Active memories? Songs still resonating from the sound hole?

I was unaware that anyone anywhere needed to be invited to a funeral, unless the deceased was Whitney Houston or Charlton Heston or George Harrison. Why would you consider the actions of the attendees at the funeral to be disrespectful or self-righteous or undignified? Sorrow wears many faces.

I'm reminded of when Reba McEntire's entire road band, pilot and co-pilot all perished in a plane crash in 1991. You want to know what crass is - songwriters appeared at some of the funerals of the dead, hoping Reba would be there so they could pitch their songs to her. I think that's a damn sight more opportunistic and distasteful than someone singing or chanting at an AA funeral.

AA does not kill. The responsibility for any suicide anywhere is that of the person committing the act. If you do not subscribe to the theory of obsession and compulsion as driving forces behind alcoholic drinking then explain how it is kosher to the tables and subscribe to the theory that an inanimate object, program or idea drives someone to commit suicide.

The actions of the funeral attendees to which you refer were ill-chosen, maybe bordering on trespass; but were they malicious or desecrating? I don't think so.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 14:08

I think it is pretty despicable myself. They are simply using the death as a means of validating their own participation in the cult. No doubt the gurus revel in it as a way of gaining more obedience from their sponsees.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:25

When did it become an AA funeral???

You are heartless to anyone that doesn't agree with your insanity.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:05

My apologies, avogadno - it was NOT an AA funeral, but it was evidently an open funeral, was it not? What's "insane" about my post? I'm insane because I partially disagree with you? That's harsh, man.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 06:16

becket said "that's harsh, man"

Yes, reality is sometimes harsh. even for insane 12 steppers who come off their head meds. : )

aren't all aa/12 steppers insane? isn't that what bill w said? "alcoholics" are insane, so by aa/12 step thinkspeak by default you are insane becket-marrrietta-old man

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:03

"They turn it into an AA funeral, like it or not." ~ causeandeffect

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:23

No, Becket, not the ENTIRE responsibility. I don't expect you to understand after your comment, however, and see no need to discuss it with you.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:01

We go around and around on this topic. If a woman sees her beloved eyeing another skirt, she doesn't slit her wrists. Say she becomes a wife who catches chlamydia from her husband and she knows he has been unfaithful, but she doesn't slit her wrists. If that husband dumps his wife, leaves her with all the bills and two children under the age of four, and the wife carefully plans to end her life, then slits her wrists, you're saying the man is to blame for indoctrinating her into thinking he would be tethered to her forever? Her perception that she married a liar, an adulterer, an irresponsible boy of a man is what killed her? His lying and cheating ways killed her? I say she simply had enough and decided not to live any longer and took all the steps to ensure that she would not live any longer. It was her choice. She wasn't railroaded into suicide.

Again: if what you claim is true, that we can stop drinking or using any time we want to, then the same applies to living. It is a choice. We alone are responsible for every selfless and selfish act we engage in, and everything in between. You're the ones making a martyr out of the dead, not the chanting goofballs at the funeral.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:05

You mean like Bill Wilson? Are you defending the slime balls actions and blaming the victim?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:25

There is no blame involved. This hypothetical woman made a decision to end her life. Her actions were the result of her thoughts and feelings. A person cannot be forced to adopt thoughts or feelings contrary to his or her nature (unless in a situation of torture, perhaps). Are you going there? Do you believe marriage is torture and leads to suicide?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:19

You are one sicko, I haven't been to an AA meeting in 22 years becket (aka Marietta Davis).

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:26

Not furthering AA in the least. Frankly don't give a shit about AA in this sequence of events.

Just looking at personal responsibility. And she is 100% responsible for her own death. No one slit her wrists for her.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:28

You are very adamant about this. Have you ever known anyone who committed suicide?

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live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 08:35

he (becket speaking as MArrrietta) let that slip earlier on.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 08:37

Listen to more of that shit or die. Common sense won out in the end...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 10:00

LFOD, I figured it was something like that. I was more betting on a sponsee though. Sure explains the knee jerk reaction.

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live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sun, 05/06/2012 - 10:37

yep. Found it over on e-SS. saved it.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 22:18

Wow Becket, sounds like a story you know quite well there. Anything you'd like to share?

Just to be clear, I have never claimed that people can simply stop using certain substances without some form of help. And while I wasn't going to discuss this with anyone here openly on the forum, the person in question here had rather amazingly stopped using both heroin AND alcohol with very little help, which was quite an achievement. He had not stopped smoking weed, which he was doing to alleviate the severe anxiety associated with PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome, just in case you're not familiar). This is one of the most serious problems that many people addicted to opiates face. While some claim that stopping opiates, even cold turkey, is no more severe than a "bad case of the flu", that as a general claim is extremely misleading. One of the biggest problems with trying to get off of opiates going the traditional 12 step rehab way is that they simply don't believe that people should be given many medications to relieve these symptoms. The meds they DO approve can also cause severe depression and disorientation in people (my friend had been put on seroquel, for example). They're NOT psychiatrists, they have no business contracting a doc who barely even sees patients (and also isn't a shrink) writing these meds. I realize that example is specific to this particular place, but it's not as if that doesn't happen in other facilities and with great regularity.

So anyway, what were you saying? That someone who is agreeing to go for "treatment" that ends up being abusive while suffering from the extreme mood swings associated with withdrawal from substances and also being placed on potentially disorientating and depression-inducing meds (while having family members told to cut them off and force a further bottom if they don't comply) and in really bad physical pain as well is ENTIRELY responsible for their actions after being subjected to all of this? Insist on your point all you want, but I am not ever going to agree with your "it's all a choice" nonsense.

(Again, I realize that some people who post on this and other anti-xA forums like to insist that it's as simple as putting the substance down, but I am NOT one of them. That is simply NOT true for all people. It's not even true in plenty of cases with alcohol, let alone heroin.)

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 20:04

That's cool, Persephone.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 21:17

He didn't give it to them. He never would have given it to them to use for Christian songs.

Fucking inexcusable. Youve always got to play Devil's Advocate, too. Nothing is ever your fault (in your mind), and that is why you can't ever admit you are wrong or rein in your maliciousness. You're still projecting.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 21:22

It was rude, Ironic.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 21:34

promote Bill Wilson and his scripture like they are writings from God when no one here believes that. Then lying multiple times to further your agenda. Tsk...Tsk...Tsk...

You should talk about being rude!

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:21

I agree Avo, I think is was terribly, terribly disrespectful to the deceased as well as the family. Unfortunately it's part of the CULTure to feel it's their right and their privilege to do such things. They see nothing wrong with hijacking a funeral. As they see it, the funeral is more for acquaintances and even strangers, as they consider themselves to be more family than biological family of the deceased. They turn it into an AA funeral, like it or not.

When my sponsor died unexpectedly, I respectfully asked her sponsor to not announce it. I explained that my sponsor's mother was quite elderly and had a hard time getting around, and that her daughter was only 20 and didn't need to be confronted with a bunch of total strangers. She agreed to tell only 2 people, one of whom my sponsor had no love for, but she felt was somehow owed because my sponsor had frequented her meditation center. I was absolutely horrified when I found her sponsor had announced the death at the biggest speaker meeting in the area. The place was so packed that there wasn't room for any of the later arriving family or friends. Just a bunch of gawkers: mostly strangers there to speculate on whether or not she had drank herself to death or committed suicide. And I still wonder about that myself sometimes. There was no autopsy but I know she was feeling quite a bit of despair in the program, yet she believed the program was supposed to lift that despair. It's a damn shame that nobody respected her families wishes. Damn crying shame.

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avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:09

It really is Cause. A damn shame. How thoughtless of her sponsor. Spreading the awful news was more important to her than being dignified and loyal.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:20

If she didn't know people there and have much of a base as Cause has now indicated, that is one thing. It could have been announced after the service or something like that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:04

Actually, it was more the entire treatment center, not as much meeting people. Everyone was invited though, and it was a mix of people who did the singing. I think that was for his family, and more by members of his family's church, everyone else was just singing along. It was just kind of sick as he had been complaining about BOTH groups being cults and insisting on being an atheist. Everyone had kept trying to insist he do everything their way, and it continued against his beliefs even that day.

I'd really rather not discuss that, if it's OK, anywhere where any troll can get at it, though. There were enough people there at the time insisting that "everything was done that could be done....he just couldn't beat his disease", etc.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:20

There was a little twist in the discussion Perse, two situations were integrated.
Yes I understand and I'm sorry. I'll keep it zipped.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 18:42

It's OK, really.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 10:57

http://www.aaspeakers.org/Ed_M-from-Davenport_IA-at-the_Founders_Day_Cel...

Principals before personalities?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:44

funeral? With all due respect, if this woman had time in the program, wouldn't it be safe to think that she had friends in that would care to know that she had passed away? I was on another thread where people were making fun of going to the graves of Bill and Lois. There is a weekly motorcyle ride to Dr. Bob's resting place.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:38

Weekly? That must really annoy the neighbors.

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Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:45

I am sure they cannot hear much! In any case, people from all over the country hit that meeting and make the ride. It's out of respect and gratitude.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 15:57

She had moved and didn't have many AA friends in the area. Most of her real friends were from other groups and from out of state. You know clara, I understand it's hard for you to comprehend, but funerals are for family and friends, not gawkers.

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Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:18

Why would you think I wouldn't know that, Cause It was a simple question, not something that has to turn into something it wasn't intended to be. Does everything have to turn into an insult?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:25

You constantly try and defend the indefensible. Are you saying that being a member of AA overides the wishes of the family? For a non-alcoholic, you've got a very strange outlook. Why are you here anyway? 6 GMs - was that everyday? That's not enough for a doctor to even warn you that you might develop a problem in the future.

Admit it Clara. You're reasons for going to AA were anything but a drink problem. Why not make everyone happy and go to a pro AA site? Nobody seems to want you here.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:33

Ben, I don't think she drank 6 GMs. I can't remember how much she said, but it wasn't 6.

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Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:51

6 of anything, Cause. I changed my drink out from time to time.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 16:54

It would also depend on what her own wishes might have been. I personaly have a lot of friends in AA. It wouldn't an "AA funeral." It would be a funeral for a woman that had a lot of friends in AA. If you had a lot of Methodist friends, would it necessarily be a Methodist funeral? Or would it be a funeral for a woman that happened to be Methodist and also an AA? Remember too that just because you announce that someone died, it doesn't mean that is an invitation to a funeral.

I went to AA because I did develop problems due to drink. Just because others were falling down drunks doesn't mean that everyone had to be.

What makes you think I don't go to an AA site?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:11

Announcing the funeral, when and where it was held, at the biggest speaker meeting in the area, was in defiance of the wishes of the family. Those wishes were made clear to her. When she chose to defy the family's wishes, that made it an AA funeral, and the family could all go screw themselves. She was given permission to tell a couple of people, not a whole crowd.

If you announced a death at a Methodist church, you could at least have a reasonable expectation that people wouldn't crowd the funeral, that the other church members would be respectful towards the family. Not so with AA.

Please do go to an AA site.

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Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 05/05/2012 - 17:10

That was inappropriate.

Cause, I do go to an AA site. I can do both.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

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