Uncomplicating things...step by step.

Submitted by gigi on Tue, 05/01/2012 - 09:50

Over on Humanspirit\'s blog, Causeandeffect commented that every step and every aspect of the program should be scrutinized. I agree and thought the obvious place to start would be with the first step.

Step One: We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable.

Powerlessness. That one word is what I find the most disturbing and detrimental about the whole program of AA. I have no power. I have no control. I have no say. I am at the mercy of everyone and everything. I am nothing. I must be taken care of. I must be told what to do. I am not capable. I am not smart. I am not worthy. I can\'t do it!!! I am powerless.
What does it mean to admit powerlessness? Is it really as soul crushing and self defeating as I see it? Or is it simply a way to open the door to a new way of thinking? And what does that new way of thinking entail?

Below is a list of questions pertaining to step one. I answered and asked these once a week, every week, for a year, in an AA group.
*Dear God, please set aside everything that I think I know, so that I may have an open mind.*

My way of living gets me scared, alone, drunk and suicidal.
Do I have the desperation of a drowning man tonight?
(Physical problem)
When I start drinking do I have little control over the amount I take? When drinking, do I crave another drink, then another...?
(mental problem)
Have I ever tried to quit entirely and found that I started again, no matter how many promises I made, willpower I tried to summon...DUI\'s, jails,rehabs, meetings, family conflict etc...
(unmanageability)
Am I having trouble with: family? friends? jobs? mood swings? depression? anger? loneliness? fear/anxiety? uselessness?
Based on everything I\'ve considered here, can I now say that I am powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable?
Am I an alcoholc?

So, there\'s the step one that I experienced. And boy oh boy did I feel powerless. Scrutinize away!

Comments

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 13:44

Thank you, PIE. I appreciate this very much, and I am sorry that your exeriences were so poor. Rehabs sound horrible, and I have disclosed that I never went to one. You and Avo tell very compelling stories, and I believe them. I surely do.

This is confusing to me. I have understood that some things are so addictive that it can be formed from the first hit. If that is true, why wouldn't someone believe your history? I used to think that it was a scare tactic, but I have come thing think that it is really true. Everyone's physical constitution is different, so why would it be impossible? I'm sorry that the medical community was not more helpful.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 13:50

Common tactic of the AA faithful.

Calling every slime ball tactic of the AA faithful, one pitiful attempt at a time.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:22

Well, to be clear, I think that is a scare tactic. If those drugs were so addictive that one dose instantly addicted everyone (or anyone, really, who knows?) they wouldn't be even controlled substances. I was placed on them for several months, it didn't happen overnight.

But do you see what I am saying? This is how I was treated, how others. This is how doctors and nurses from offices to ERs treat you if you get tagged as an addict. It's how society in general views addiction and alcoholism. We weren't believed about anything (I say "we" loosely as I'm speaking for people who aren't even on this forum and others who are but may feel differently). Some were alcoholics, also, not on drugs.

But my point is that it's not just the rehabs. It's the hospitals. It's the population in general, and it's because of the stereotypes perpetuated by xA dogma/texts that have backfired in this way to make the stigma of addiction/alcoholism even WORSE than it possibly was when they first wrote about it that way. I understand that by saying it's a disease and not a moral failure that it elevated it somewhat in the climate of the 1930s, perhaps, but with the way medical science has progressed and also stagnated it has simply created this dual dangerous idea. This idea that due to brain chemistry, it IS a biological illness combined with the AA stereotype (Wilson's) of what constitutes the personality of people with said illness.

You have no problem, at least I assume from what you've written, being labeled an alcoholic. Having that as part of your identity. Not everyone wants to be identified as having character traits that are a STEREOTYPE. They were manufactured and propagated by AA and NA and have slipped into conventional wisdom in ways that are very, very damaging to people. You can be upset, and rightfully so, at being stereotyped here by people on this forum. Now magnify that unwillingness of people to believe anything you say or your motives for saying them on the scale of your entire life. Because I guarantee you, if you end up with (heaven forbid) a painful condition or injury and try to get medical help for it while admitting to being an alcoholic, your chances of facing exactly what happened to those of us here are pretty high. Not 100%, plenty of people manage to still get care. But get one wrong nurse on the staff with an addicted sister, an alcoholic father, some bizarre alanon-ish grudge and you'll be accused of things you've never even dreamed of.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 20:35

thanks pie , you are so right, i very much appreciate the time you spend writing about what happens to people like us who are labeled . I am much more then an drug addict an alcoholic , but once you say you have a problem you are in for a world of hurt. You and AVO are speaking the truth and it so helpful to know others have gone through being stereotyped and I am not alone. thanks again

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 20:52

Dorak, wow, thank you. I'm just saying the things that, well, I was told to never say.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:00

I don't think it all started with AA an NA, though. Amgnus Huss started the term in the 1850's. I don't mind being called that because I have changed how I felt about it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:23

Well, you can change how you feel about it, it doesn't much change that you're accepting someone else's definition for yourself. Which, again, is fine if that's what you are comfortable with. It could even be in line with the re-adoption of other derogatory words such as "queer" or the "n word". Somehow I don't think that's what you mean, though. Are you talking submission to it, or re-owning it, or something different?

How did you change how you felt about it? I'm just curious.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 06:54

When I lived in DC, I lived in Dupont Circle, a predominately gay and lesbian neighborhood. It used to amaze me that they could use words to describe themselves that would be unacceptable to them if someone outside their community did... When I moved to Nasvhille, TN, from the largely segregated town of Tulsa, OK, I was very surprised to hear African Americans using words to desribe themselves that wouldn't be acceptable for me to use. I took classes at a historical AA school and it really bothered me to see that. But I realized that among themselves, these were not bad words. It was explained to me that white people mean it negatively when they said it, but not so with them. I am here in El Paso, where there are words used for Anglos and Mexicans that are not considered flattering. Again, what determines that is who is using them...

When my mother would say "alcoholic" to describe my grandfather, she generally said it with anger and frustration. She said it in a way that demonstrated that she thought he was lower than dirt for being one. Despite that she believed that alcoholism was a genetic disposition and that she feared for her children, she was also very angry at how he treated her mother and what this did to all of their lives. I thought alcoholics were bad people, people with moral failings... weaklings. I associated it with bad things. I think this belief kept me from wanting to admit that I was one, too. Despite everyone's chuckles over "six beers," the fact is when I got into trouble, alcohol was involved somehow.

When I went to AA, it was explained to me differently and people FELT differently about it. While I am not one of the "glad alcoholics," I am pleased that there was something to do about it, and I did. I find no shame in being an alcoholic, be that your definition or mine. I spent years feeling defined by another person's definition of an alcoholic - my mother's.

I wish she were here to see that I recovered.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 08:49

OK, the way that all posted it looks like my comment from last night was in reply to this one of yours here, Clara, so I'll add this and see where it posts.

Well, that's what I was wondering about, and I understand that we all take xA differently based on our personal backgrounds. I'm glad you find no shame in it, nor do I think you should. It seems like you grew up with the view that WIlson originally was writing to change, in a way. I just don't want to be defined in that way personally, and my background reflects that as well.

I think there's a reason you don't see many minorities in xA, though, and for different reasons with many different groups. LOL....I remember discussing this with a few other people on that cusp of entering xA, with the whole "you're different, you have a disease", one was white but gay, one was also from a racial minority group. Two of us were women. Some people seemed refreshed to be given the "different" status. But we three kept just joking that it was another level of us being "you people", and we'd already had quite enough of that. I mean, it wasn't weighing to heavily on us either, because we didn't believe we had to be defined that way anyway, but it was a big "thanks, but NO thanks" sort of feeling. Yes, the context is everything.

So, does it feel like an absolution of sorts to you? An explanation of your life that makes sense and you are comfortable with?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:20

I don't know if absoution is the right word. I think I felt that there were other ways to view alcoholics than with the contempt and derision my mother did, and it paved the way to better understanding. She was never empathetic. I aways knew that being an alcholic was a negative thing.

As for minorities, I didn't know many in AA. Most black people in SC live on the outskirts in small towns and go to those meetings. I am sure if I went to a meeting in Orangeburg, I would be the only white woman there.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:48

It isn't Clara...lol - Priceless.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:54

Ah, Ben, I thought open season on typos was over. Where are your critiques of others?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:59

You asked if it was the right word, and I said "No"...lol

PS - Only one "e" in "open"...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 10:12

Hey, I corrected it. You can hep Patti hone her spelling and grammar today, too, Ben.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 11:02

Well, I am glad that you were able to come to terms with all of that. That's a hard family legacy to have.

SC, sorry, you have listed a lot of cities and states. Are you from the South originally? I'm just curious, because attitudes there towards drinking are a bit different (IMO), or at least traditionally were with most of the white southern population.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 09:58

I am a daughter and a Jew and a lesbian too. So many things, why add "drug addict" to the repertoire?

But when an IV user calls another IV user a junkie, it's like me calling a local bar that "my people" frequent a "dyke bar." Nobody flinches when I use that term, either, though they might if a heterosexual person did.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 10:13

When I changed my attitude about the word, I no longer cared who used it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 10:42

Ironic, OK, I had seen this IRL but not so much online. Well, a few articles online about AA being "too white", but mainly from the perspective of the black community. It's so refreshing to see someone else feels that way, it was just toooo much for me. Another tag to take on that I just didn't want or need. There's already too much!

Yeah, I tried to own the word early on, too, like I tried with gender and racial epithets, but I just hit some sort of critical mass in terms of feeling "marginalized". Especially where I live now. Ick.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:53

OK, I was going to hold off on saying some of this, but I just have to. What I was told simply made no sense. None at all. I've been asked to "identify" with so many non-majority group identities in my life, and have been an activist for most of my life advocating for rights for so many who face discrimination......then I get sent to people who explain that we're "different" and have a "disease", but refuse, absolutely REFUSE to do anything about it, and take the route that has some pretty bad names in many minority communities. It made no sense to me! I mean, I don't believe either view, we're not actually different, but we also shouldn't accept our "place" in society.

I realize my background is probably a bit different in this regard, but this seemed very, very wrong to me.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 18:10

They take anything they can get one step at a time and do the switcheroo later. That's how they suck people in. Step one can start innocently enough, depending on the person. If you take step 3 into consideration at that time, which I was instructed NOT to do, it becomes more clear what is happening. Too bad that many people are relapse prone and starting over.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 02:18

How can you distinguish a relapse-prone person? Why isn't every alcoholic and every drug addict prone to relapse? Anything is possible.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 10:17

I can't distinguish a relapse prone person until they relapse several times. Many addicts relapse. Not all.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

disclosure

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 14:05

Are you sober or abstinent? If you are sober you may still drink but may not allow yourself to become intoxicated. If you are abstinent you have completely given up drinking so you have lost your ability to drink.
Look it up in a standard dictionary.
Or consider this; at a sobriety check point you are not tested to determine whether or not you have been drinking, you are tested to determine whether or not you are impaired beyond the legal limit.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 14:11

sober: not habitually drinking alcohol
abstinent: voluntary self-denial, usually associated with the non-indulgence of an appetite

I do not need a dictionary to appreciate the difference between sober and abstinent. I am sober and abstinent. I do not drink. I have not lost my ability to drink. That is ridiculous. Look it up.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

disclosure

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 15:46

if you are a happy aa, why are you here on op?

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 15:58

Nobody really knows why the trolls are here. They won\'t give you a straight answer either.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 16:36

I\'m here because of a desire to support a program that gave me assistance when I was looking to get through the day without drinking myself into a stupor. Yes, I am fully aware that this forum is an anti-AA forum. But I do not subscribe to the indiscriminately harsh judgment of the 12 steps that appears here regularly. So I add my two cents\' worth when I find something offensive or misrepresentative or glaringly false in order to lend a little balance or to invite further discussion. I also spend about 65% of my time putting out hate fires.

No, Ironic, I do not have a pie chart for the statistic.

I ask no one to agree with me on any point.

Is that straight enough for you?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 16:40

\"I also spend about 65% of my time putting out hate fires.\"

How do you do that? Do you think you\'ve been successful? Do you think they are extinguished or have you actually been fanning the flames?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 18:05

I wish we could rep on this forum.

If becket spends 65% of "her" time putting out hate fires it's because she spends 99% of her time starting them. My exact thought as I LOLed. Haha AGREED

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 18:30

And she thinks she's the epitome of all rationality and reason here, but call her on her shit and you'll get no reply.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 22:04

Have you called me on shit to which I did not reply, causeandeffect? Please specify. I'd be happy to respond.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 18:47

I remember one day (11th or 12th March) I was away and the next day she said how great it had been and for once the postings were "relevant and important"...lol. I checked back and they were all her BS...lol. I think we should be eternally grateful that we have someone who can post "relevant and important" information on here...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 22:05

I'm asking for relevance and importance, idiot. I'm not doling it out like Dickensian gruel.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 22:01

You know how fires are. You toss a bucket of water on them and take a stick to them, but they think you're stirring them up. So they send embers on missions to burn in new areas. No, I'm not very successful. Hate is a hard thing to kill.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 22:33

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 02:23

Don't you know you're gonna make the children cry with that stupid Bambi picture? Put it where they can't see it! Now go wash up for supper.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

disclosure

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 18:01

thanks

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 20:27

Nobody really knows why the anti AA trolls are here. They won't give you a straight answer either.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 20:24

If you are a happy anti AA, why are here on OPF?

billybudd

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 21:10

Ironic has done you solid courtesy, bro. How would you like it if she crashed your cello recital flopping like a gaffed tuna? Severe repercussions ensue for failure to thoroughly justify existence, you know.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 22:35

What courtesy? What recital? Enquiring minds want to know.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 02:21

"if you are a happy aa, why are you here on op?"

Guard duty.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 07:15

So judge No Balls becket, you are here on the Orange Papers Forum in service to Alcoholics Anonymous as a guard?

What are you guarding? The Secrets of AA?

Are you guarding the Secrets of AA/12 steps such as:

AA was born of an immoral predatory conman that never graduated from high school or college?
This same conman was the original unemployable 12 stepper.
This same conman is responsible for the term 13 steppin.
The AA success rate of "curing" "alcoholics" is around 5%.
AA has been ruled to be a religion by numerous state and federal courts.
AA is actually a religious cult.
This conman actually stole the copyright of the original Big Book published in 1940.
This conman, as a result of stealing the BB copyright,died a multimillionair.
This conman, upon his death, legally transferred 10% of his royalties due him his mistress.
This conman actually was actively involved in taking mind altering drugs with his closest friends and wife.
This conman claimed to have received help writing AA literature from a dead monk that died in the 1600's.
This conman often held seances in his home to speak to the "other side".
This conman actually screamed for and demanded shots of whiskey from his deathbed in Florida.
The conman's claim that AA is a program of attraction not promotion while his name/face were disclosed.
AA actively promotes the religious cult in jails, prisons and institutions.
AA has allowed the rooms of many AA meetings across this planet to become places for sexual and nonsexual predators that will prey upon the vulnerable.
AANY ignores the self-created safety and security problems in the rooms to continue by turning their backs on the very people that AA is supposedly organized to help.
Bill W was a hypocrite and a bigot, not the altruistic individual painted by many AA historians/steppers.
AA teachings that the only way for the "alcoholic" to regain his sobriety and sanity is by wholeheartedly turing their life over to god .
By turning one's life over to god that god will perform a "miracle" for the 12 stepper and cure the "disease".
AA increases the suicide rate among the "alcoholic" AA members by inducing increased shame, guilt and remorse in the weakened, desparate and vulnerable substance abuser.

Are these secrets part of what you are guarding by trolling here on the Orange Papers Forum MArrrietta?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:33

LFOD, the same conman that said he was the reincarnate Jesus Christ?

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:36

is that that information has been in circulation for decades. If you mention it, the silence is deafening...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:59

Not the "deafening silence" again. Can you choose a less tattered cliche?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 05:56

What amazes me is that the proof has been missing for decades. If you ask for it, the silence is deafening. LOL!

btnben's picture

btnben

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 07:13

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Henrietta_Seiberling.html

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 06:01

Opinion, not fact. Would really be interesting to see the proof.

This one should be easy enough:
"This conman actually screamed for and demanded shots of whiskey from his deathbed in Florida."

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 07:07

I don't have a problem with Bill asking for whiskey on this deathbed. My father thought my mother was still alive. Who knows where Bill was mentally when that was happening.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

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