Uncomplicating things...step by step.

Submitted by gigi on Tue, 05/01/2012 - 09:50

Over on Humanspirit\'s blog, Causeandeffect commented that every step and every aspect of the program should be scrutinized. I agree and thought the obvious place to start would be with the first step.

Step One: We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanageable.

Powerlessness. That one word is what I find the most disturbing and detrimental about the whole program of AA. I have no power. I have no control. I have no say. I am at the mercy of everyone and everything. I am nothing. I must be taken care of. I must be told what to do. I am not capable. I am not smart. I am not worthy. I can\'t do it!!! I am powerless.
What does it mean to admit powerlessness? Is it really as soul crushing and self defeating as I see it? Or is it simply a way to open the door to a new way of thinking? And what does that new way of thinking entail?

Below is a list of questions pertaining to step one. I answered and asked these once a week, every week, for a year, in an AA group.
*Dear God, please set aside everything that I think I know, so that I may have an open mind.*

My way of living gets me scared, alone, drunk and suicidal.
Do I have the desperation of a drowning man tonight?
(Physical problem)
When I start drinking do I have little control over the amount I take? When drinking, do I crave another drink, then another...?
(mental problem)
Have I ever tried to quit entirely and found that I started again, no matter how many promises I made, willpower I tried to summon...DUI\'s, jails,rehabs, meetings, family conflict etc...
(unmanageability)
Am I having trouble with: family? friends? jobs? mood swings? depression? anger? loneliness? fear/anxiety? uselessness?
Based on everything I\'ve considered here, can I now say that I am powerless over alcohol and my life is unmanageable?
Am I an alcoholc?

So, there\'s the step one that I experienced. And boy oh boy did I feel powerless. Scrutinize away!

Comments

gigi

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:39

This post made me smile. And so did yours, Avo. I get it 100% and feel much the same.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

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causeandeffect

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:41

: ) right back atcha!

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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 11:02

Who accused someone of child abuse?

Be ready to back this up. Check your dictionary first: a*c*c*u*s*e*d.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

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avogadno

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 12:54

It appears that you did understand my post. My lucky day.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:01

I said you are difficult to decipher 40% of the time. That doesn't mean 40% of every post is indecipherable. Yeah, you got lucky.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 12:27

You have highlighted the definition of megalomania once again

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:02

Why would you say such a thing??

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:01

Did someone call you that becket? I'm sure no-one has ever used that word of you. Now, if you go up and "search" you will find that used quite a few times for Marietta - BUT NEVER FOR BECKET.

There's a load more proof, but that one was from the Mare's mouth...lol. That "Again" on the end gives it all away.

becket 05/03/2012 10:17

"If I disagree with you I won't sit on those differences of opinion, but I will attempt to maintain some measure of courtesy. You call me a cunt and I'll come out swinging. Again."

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:05

Do you need to have Red Adair come to your charming flat and drill it into you that I read much of the Orange Papers Forum before I logged on?

Goddamn it, btnben. What a cretin.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:08

In the words of a 12 step Sympathizer that doesn't go to meeting no less.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 15:24

Your argument is specious. And funny.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:10

Means it's happened before Marietta. No-one has ever called becket that. Your cover is blown - not that anyone believed you anyway...lol. Once a liar, always a liar. You are not at fault. You seem to be constitutionally incapable of being honest with yourself or anyone else.

Was fuer ein Clown...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 15:25

WTF?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 15:30

"You call me a cunt and I'll come out swinging. Again."

Who would say that if no-one had called them that? Doesn't make sense.

Marietta was called that. You've slipped up there M...lol. Not for the first time.

First ever post to billybud "I love you billybud, when's your book coming out" or words to that effect. Hardly a first post...lol

I had a quick look in on e-AA earlier M - not looking good - hardly anyone left there to bully. Is that why you're here all the time - for now...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 16:32

btnben, btnben, btnben, . . .

I'm always being chastised here on the Orange Papers Forum for militancy, for aggression, for hitting below the belt. That's what "Again" refers to. I'll come out swinging just like I do every time an imbecile makes a shithead remark. (That's usually you, isn't it?) Makes perfect sense if you carefully remove the ice pick from your eye.

You've gone completely off the dock with the billybudd stuff. I do love billybudd. His posts are thoughtful and funny and refreshing - what's not to love? What do you mean, hardly a first post? Have you never experienced love at first post?

Goddamn it, go get your own fuckin whiskey. Get two - they're small.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 16:37

The sound of backpedaling is almost deafening.

Just a question for all the other ladies on here. Would you ever use that word about yourself without someone else having said it first?

So busted Marietta...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 16:59

You just can't read, btnben. It's shocking the state of adult education in the UK. I'm so sorry your family or your wife couldn't afford to put you through school. You could have amounted to . . . well, something.

I was not using the word "cunt" in any remote application to myself. The word has come up on this forum in quite disgraceful ways, always generated by "men". So now that it's on your mind every seven seconds, btnben, why not relieve yourself and come back a better "man"?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:11

I can read perfectly well, and I can assure you that my education is far superior to yours...lol. And as far as making something of yourself is concerned, care to share the highlights of your life?...lol. Not as an earner, that's for sure - $22K wasn't it?...lol. Got any awards? Grammy or something?...lol.

May I quote - "You call me a cunt and I'll come out swinging." First time I've ever heard a woman anticipate such an insult. And as far as being on my mind...lol You're the one who keeps using it...lol.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you have seen many therapists in your lifetime. Have you ever considered that this is because you are Bat Shit Crazy?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:21

Are you going to try to deny that when Marietta was posting on this forum she was called a cunt? My post says "[If] You call me a cunt I'll come out swinging." The precedent was set with Marietta. I can read. I've read nearly all the posts on this forum. It's easy to see there's a great deal of hostility being tended for Marietta. I am steadfast: If you call me - or any woman on this forum - a cunt, not matter what difference she and I may have between us, I will defend her. There is no reason to stoop unless you've chosen to defecate on your ankles.

If this is the first time you've ever heard a woman anticipate an insult, where the fuck have you been? Have you not heard that women don't take kindly to that sort of thing? We don't deserve it, we don't have to tolerate it.

Now, as for the money and the education angle, no remark need be made. It's clear what you're made of, btnben. A slight breeze would blow your stodgy shit into the river.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:29

I ask all the ladies on here again - would any ONE of you anticipate THAT insult and say what Marietta has just said. It's there for all to see. I can understand someone saying AFTER they had been called that, but to warn a group NOT to say it, well, doesn't ring true to me. Why do you have to get so abusive? I'm just pointing out that you are a fraud - and a rather stupid one at that.

And that last paragraph...lol. So, what you're saying is measured by education, or income, or achievement, you just don't come up to scratch. Keep aspiring for that mediocrity Marietta - you'll get there one day...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:00

You have ably illustrated how little you know about women. Your ignorance is staggering.

Abusive? No, I'm just pointing out your failure to understand what a good portion of one's life spent abused can do to a woman.

So: you'll never get it. Just pack it in.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:04

You spent a good portion of your life being abused? Where's your "blame the victim" diatribe now?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:09

Again, your compassion is less than underwhelming. Would you have every woman who has been abused recount every single detail of beatings, chokings, rapes? Do you get off to that, btnben?

There's no diatribe necessary. If I told you you lived in the United Kingdom you would come after me with a baseball bat. We're done, right?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:24

Ben, I usually anticipate "arrogant bitch", but that's just me. Does that help at all? Or should I stop?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:51

"I've read nearly all the posts on this forum." That seems a bit obsessive to me. Let me know if you ever run out of reading material. I have another site I'd like to recommend.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:58

I'm obsessive? Oh, yeah. In comparison to you, causeandeffect, I'm in a hammock on a Bahamian beach.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:58

I don't remember one way or another, but if she was called that she deserved it. If anyone ever deserved to be called (and I'm not nearly as offended by that word as certain others) a cunt it was that horrible woman. I can get along with just about anyone. Not Marietta Davis, though, she was just a cunt.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:02

"Not Marietta Davis, though, she was just a cunt." Thank you, Persephone. Seriously.

I rest my yesterday, today and tomorrow case.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:17

Well, some people do lose their sense of humor or irony when certain words are used. It's OK, I don't blame you personally for it, it's a widespread phenomenon.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 07:03

If people don't like the language used toward themselves, they shouldn't use it toward anyone else. You just brought this up on another thread about the term of alcoholic and why it is all right by some, along the lines of N word. I tend to find having to resort to that language as some sort of linguistic failing. Surely everyone is better than that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:05

No, I don't use that word about myself. I hate that word. I find it demeaning. Of course that has nothing to do with the simple fact that we all know becket is marietta. Her writing is as signature as danny's, but for different reasons, of course.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:14

Yes, and Marietta is Clara. Different reason, but it's the same deceit.

How can this person live with himself?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:16

I live with myself great - have a ball. I can understand you having problems living with such venom 24/7.

You've been very vocal and unusually vicious today - run out of meds?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:22

You have a ball all right. Most men get two.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:30

Lennie Bruce...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 17:43

I have never said that clara was marietta. The difference is obvious.

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:03

No, but you have seen the name "Clarietta" making the rounds, have you not?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:06

She's gone into full victim mode now...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:11

You are so saturated with hate you can't even tell how ugly you are to all women here. Dying would have been easier than living with you.

Done.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:20

You'll explode...lol

I don't hate anyone - not even you Marietta. Who hates their toys?...lol

And so kind of you to speak up for all the women here. Where would they be without you?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 08:16

Hi causeandeffect, Just want to say thanks for being a nice person and being nice to me on this forum.
Well, I hate that word too. For some reason if I say twat, it's funny but the other one isn't.
I am trying to get my friend Jamie to join this forum but right now she is being a giant whore about it.

She will give in at some point I hope. We both are still a little nutty from our brainwashedness with AA.
My significant other may join too. I hope.

O.k. I'll shut up now. I never know what to say, I'm such a fool.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Fri, 05/04/2012 - 08:29

you're not a fool. Hope your friends join us soon. : )

Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 10:12

I know this is to Beckett, but i was just reading the posts by Orange when he started this site. All opinions are welcome, and he was responding to Soberman when he said that it would be hard to be knock of off here. While that is not permission to just run riot with abuse, it seems to me that anyone with a contrary view to AA sucks is just ridiculed to the max. When I tried to give some background, every thing was scrutinized and made fun of and immediately dismissed an untruth, even that I retired at a relatively young age, sinply because I am not anti-AA. If I would have said I was disabled due to alcoholism, that would have been met with a completely different reaction verses that some in an area of sales that fell flat just didn't go back. I've yet to use colorful language on the board, yet it is often displayed with people that then believe others are being rude or unmannerly.

The rules are different at e-AA. It's about as simple as that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 10:59

cuz you know if this board was run like e-AA you wouldn't be here.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 11:06

"Kindly wind that little bit down please, Clara . . . "

What does that mean? Do you think Clara is being profane, loud, what?

"Wind that little bit down". I've never heard that expression anywhere, not even in Florida. Hm.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 11:30

Maybe my grandmother uses it? Maybe a British person here? I didn't invent it.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 12:07

What needs to be toned down, Ironic? Are you perhaps offended because it was you that didn't believe I had retired in my forties?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 12:26

Praise of e-AA needs to be toned down.

You can claim that your life is however you want it to be. It doesn't bother me, even if I think you're being untruthful.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 13:50

Who was praising e-AA?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 12:27

Clara, not to put too blunt a point on it or turn your post around on you, because I do understand why you feel the way you do (I attacked you a bit at first believing you to be the infamous Marietta Davis). But if it helps you understand the way some of us here feel about our experiences in treatment, you have just described it rather perfectly. Which is exactly why I don't attack you or dispute what you post about your background and motives (at least, I'm not aware of doing so, I try to stick to actual differences in opinion) because that's EXACTLY what was done to me for being ANTI-12 STEP.

Everything I said or did was scrutinized, mocked, torn down and ridiculed (to the max) not just because I wasn't receptive to "the program", but because of a prevailing stereotype that is perpetuated by AA/NA and its dogma that anyone addicted to a substance is a "liar". Is a "manipulator". Is trying to "create drama". I was denied treatment for actual medical problems because "addicts in treatment are still drug and attention seeking". I was told that my history was wrong, that I was lying about my almost nonexistent amount of substance use prior to my addiction because it didn't fit the narrative. When it was grudgingly conceded that I did have legitimate medical issues, it was with the back-handed phrase, "Well, you're just terminally unique. You should look that up, by the way." This is how we are all treated when we try to seek treatment for our addictions and alcoholism in the medical community at large, not merely in one rehab or one detox.

This is what is perpetuated by this system of dogma that insists that we are biologically different based on some garbled misunderstanding of brain chemistry, we become people who are believed to be incapable of telling the truth or being listened to.

So while I am saddened that you are ridiculed for personal details that you share here (again, I don't judge you for your marriage, your car, your 6 beers, etc.) I hope that if it can illuminate anything about being singled out for your beliefs about your own recovery it can show how little chance so many of us faced while seeking treatment for OUR problems, which is the reason many of us are here. Due to YEARS of people telling us that we are diseased, lying character defect-ridden powerless lesser beings.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

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