---This is a continuation of a topic I brought up the other day. Orange discussed the Chapter To Wives, giving examples of Bill W.'s Lying by Omission.
--Below is more of Orange's examples of 'Lying by Omissions and Half-truths' propagating techniuques as they relate to Bill Wilson and AA. Orange is quoted with the bold text and quotes from the AA text are italicised. ---Thoughts and arguments?
Bill Wilson gave us many more examples of that Lie By Omission technique. Here, he is talking about doing Step Five, where we confess all of our sins and moral shortcomings to someone else:
'This is perhaps difficult, especially discussing our defects with another person. We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves. There is doubt about that. In actual practice, we usually find a solitary self-appraisal insufficient. Many of us thought it necessary to go much further. We will be more reconciled to discussing ourselves with another person when we see good reasons why we should do so. The best reason first: If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking. Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably they got drunk. Having persevered with the rest of the program, they wondered why they fell. We think the reason is that they never completed their housecleaning. They took inventory all right, but hung on to some of the worst items in stock. They only thought they had lost their egoism and fear; they only thought they had humbled themselves. But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness and honesty, in the sense we find it necessary, until they told someone else all their life story.'
A.A. Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, Chapter 6, Into Action, pages 72-73.
Wow. That's really impressive. I guess we had better get down on our knees right now, and start confessing everything, holding nothing back!
Right?
Wrong.
Notice that the rest of the logic is missing. That is, where do we see the report on the other people, who did confess everything, and then successfully abstained from drinking? There is no such report, because they all relapsed too. The early New York group that Bill Wilson was writing about had a very high relapse rate. Fully fifty percent of the original Big Book authors relapsed and returned to a life of drinking. In Akron, Bill Wilson and Doctor Bob calculated that they had only a 5% success rate in sobering up alcoholics (which is the same as the success rate of people who quit on their own). Bill Wilson couldn't keep 'em sober not for nuthin'. The cult religion routine didn't work at all.
But Bill didn't want to talk about that, because he was a faithful Buchmanite who believed that you must confess your sins to everyone else in your group if you are to be holy. So Bill was doing everything in his power to make everyone holy, even if it didn't make them sober.
And note how Bill also gave us illustrations of a few other propaganda techniques:
The Straw Man Tactic:
"We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves."
"They only thought they had lost their egoism and fear; they only thought they had humbled themselves. But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness and honesty..."
Those people who think that they don't really need to do all of Bill Wilson's wonderful 12 Steps are really stupid egotistical dishonest cowards, aren't they?
Hiding Behind Others:
The use of "We" to create the false impression that it was more than just the opinion of Bill Wilson — that many people had done a whole lot of research on the subject, and had gained a lot of valuable experience in what really works to keep people sober: "We think... We usually find..." The truth is, when Bill wrote that paragraph in December of 1938 and January of 1939, there were only 60 or 70 sober A.A. members in the whole world, and they didn't all agree with him. Their major experience was in watching Bill Wilson's religious program fail to keep them sober, with most of the early A.A. members relapsing and leaving. Here, Bill Wilson was really just pushing his own strange Buchmanite religious beliefs, and trying to convince others that his ideas were the only things that work.
Lying by Omission (some more):
Half of those few sober A.A. members didn't like or do Bill Wilson's Twelve Steps. They were the members who demanded that Bill's 12 religious steps be called "suggestions", not requirements, because they saw clearly that Bill's dogmatic religiosity would drive away many of the alcoholics whom the program was supposed to help. See page 59 of the Big Book — the steps are only "suggested as a program of recovery". But here, Bill wants to fool you into thinking that all of the sober members did Step Five thoroughly, holding nothing back, and that's why they were sober.
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc: "It happened after 'X', so it was caused by 'X'."
"Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives. ... Almost invariably they got drunk."
Bill Wilson doesn't really give us any evidence that withholding embarrassing personal secrets makes people drink alcohol, just like he doesn't give us any evidence that confessing sins to other A.A. members makes people get sober. He just wants to fool us into thinking it. I can with equal validity argue that they all relapsed because they wore clothes to the meetings:
Time after time, we have seen newcomers make the stupid mistake of wearing clothes to A.A. meetings. Almost all of the newcomers who relapsed wore clothes. (What sins were they trying to hide?) Almost invariably, they got drunk. And almost all of the people who wore clothes to A.A. meetings eventually dropped out.
Conclusion: Obviously, wearing clothes to A.A. meetings causes people to drink alcohol.
Comments
alkieanon
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 18:12
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Going naked to A.A. meetings causes people to stay sober
Obviously, going naked to A.A. meetings causes people to stay sober.
The collective obsessional behavior of OPF members is to lie.
JR Harris
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 08:24
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The collective obsessional behavior of AA members is to lie
For some reason, they believe they are protecting some sacred "life saving" institution by continually lying about things. They forget about the many martyrs the cult has made in an effort to grow the fellowship and talk more people into becoming life long alcoholics.
The commonality of these lies are very prevalent. Take the case of an AA troll coming to the Orange Papers Forum and claiming to have just realized that they had a problem with alcohol and found AA and was saved and that everyone should read the "Big Book" and "Living Sober" and everything will be revealed. Said troll even goes to the point of saying that people should not be mandated to AA, they should be put in prison. The lies by omission then start to come out and it is found out that the troll actually had multiple DUI's and was on probation for three years due to it, anyone with any legal experience realizes that three years probation was INSTEAD of jail time and said troll used AA as a get out of jail card. Of course we won't even go into the lie of said troll claiming to have a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
becket
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 08:27
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If they believe it, JR Harris
If they believe it, JR Harris, then they are not lying. As far as they're concerned they're telling the truth.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
JR Harris
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 08:34
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You mean if they believe their lie?
No, a lie is made on purpose to deceive. A lie by omission is made on purpose. It shows a severe mental problem of lying that AA members have a greater than normal propensity to engage in that is called collective or group hysteria caused by the Stockholm Syndrome of continually repeating the scripture of the con man Bill Wilson.
Quit trying to minimize (which is another propaganda technique of the AA faith), a lie is a lie, no matter how altruistic the members of AA try to make it.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
disclosure
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 08:42
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conversational terrorism
ad hominem
disclosure
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 08:44
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THINK VS. FEEL:
A person will likely be off center of the ANALYTICAL/EMOTIVE SPECTRUM (an alternate name for this technique) in any heated exchange. By pointing out which side the other person is on, (either side will do) he/she is obliged to defend his/her temperament instead of the case at hand.
"Your cold, analytical approach to this issue doesn't take into account the human element."
avogadno
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 11:18
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A pathological liar often
A pathological liar often believes in their lies. They are still liars by definition.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 20:25
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What is a lie by omission? I
What is a lie by omission? I know the technical definition, but what if someone is claiming another is lying by not fully disclosing something? For example, it's at my discretion what I say about myself. Am I lying if I choose simply to generalize? Why would someone feel entitled to know everything? I was always told in that in sharing to speak generally and in more detail if the situation warranted it. That would be true about legal difficulties brought about by drinking.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
dandammit
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 20:32
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I lied.
I lied.
because sometimes I just had to.
JR Harris
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:00
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Omission or outright lie?
There is a difference. Someone claiming to have knowledge from a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice, when they know nothing about the field, is a lie, not an omission.
Claiming to have found the fellowship of AA by their own while outwardly stating that they were not coerced, mandated or using an "AA get out of jail card" and then admitting 2 months later that they were on probation from South Carolina for three years for a DUI, is a lie by omission during the 2 months that they were not telling this fact.
Claiming to only have one DUI for two months on a blog, then admitting to having multiple is a combination lie/omission.
When you put these three incidents together they have a synergistic effect (the sum is much stronger than the total of all incidents) which shows devious deception. If a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice were true, they would have known that 3 years probation is substituted for jail or prison time. They would have also known that in South Carolina it is mandatory that a Substance abuse treatment program be given on even a first DUI. They would have also have known that 3 years probation is much more than just one accident unless death or injury was involved. These facts were omitted numerous times for 2 months of blogging, claiming an unbelievable fairytale like scenario which is a lie and an omission.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
avogadno
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 05:23
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Not all lies are determined
Not all lies are determined by omission, some are just blatantly false comments.
Lying by omission, as I understand it, occurs when a person makes a statement but leaves out pertinent information meant to deceive the listener.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
avogadno
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 05:46
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Supposing there was a thread
Supposing there was a thread titled, "How many of you were told by the court to go to AA?".
You decided to offer your story and said, "I made a choice to go to AA. I realized that I had a problem drinking and went to AA to get sober". That might be the truth. The truth might also include facts that you didn’t want to share because you didn’t want people to think that AA wasn’t only your choice. It may be that you got arrested for DUI and your judge told you to go to AA. You may have thought this was good advice and agreed, deciding that the judge was right.
The above scenario is an example of lying by omission. Having neglected to leave out pertinent information regarding your decision, one which included the judge telling you that you had to go to AA, you deceived people.
This is only an example, given to help you understand. I don’t know facts pertaining to your particular situation and I’m not trying to suggest to anyone that you were leaving out important facts on purpose and “lying by omission”.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/