I have been mostly studying for my finals this week (one week till graduation. TERRIFIED HERE), but I\'ve also been lurking.
I noticed that Clara amuses the men here at OPF but has totally pissed off all the women (most of whom would rather see her banned, I think).
Anyone else noticed this is divided along gender lines, somewhat? I think the men have a higher tolerance for marietta/becket as well.
Comments
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 17:11
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Why make it about me, Ironic?
Why make it about me, Ironic? It\\\'s interesting to have someone say you are derailing a thread simply by posting, but then create a forum topic about me. Then, they do the same thing they did to Marietta. Complained about her but missed her. Slammed me when I got there, thinking I was the hapless soul.
This isn\\\'t about an issue. It\\\'s about a personality. I think Bill was right about that.
You will do fine with your finals! To be in school again...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Ironic
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 17:32
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You definitely derail threads by posting
But since this thread is in fact, about you, you can\'t really derail it as easily.
:)
Thanks for the well-wishes on my finals. Hopefully I will come back to you all in a couple weeks as a holder of a 4 year degree.
Ed
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 17:27
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Clara what are your views? I
Clara what are your views? I have been a very short time and haven\'t clarified your position.
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:50
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I am an recovered alcoholic
I am an recovered alcoholic that has been involved for 5 years. My husband has 22 and we met in the fellowship. There isn\'t too much to tell other than I was getting into legal trouble and decided I needed to put down the drink. I had wrecked my car and got a dui in Maryland. Went to Myrtle Beach, SC, to chill and decided to check out AA. I liked it. When I came back for my hearing, I was given unsupervised probation for three years. My attorney, who became my sponsor, invited me to go back to the beach, and stay there because he didn\'t think I would be able to keep sober otherwise. So off I went. I had a great time in AA there. It wasn\'t anything as described here on OPF, but that\'s okay, too. I enjoyed it, did a lot of service work. My husband and I transfered to the southwest where the meetings are completely different. In fact, Ed, I imagine if I had gone to AA here first, I wouldn\'t have stayed.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:04
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Unsupervised probation for three years on a first DUI?
Source: http://www.ehow.com/facts_5143287_penalty-dui-south-carolina.html
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Brett
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 22:46
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recovered from a 6 beer binge
6 beer binge lol
Brett
DeConstructor
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:17
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I actually sypathize with Clara
She and her other personalities obviously have severe mental problems. It is too bad that this site is all she has, when she probably would be better taken care of in some type of mental hospital or institution.
She is somewhat amusing to toy with, yet as a man, I mostly ignore her, as her viewpoint is truly irrelevant.
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:27
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Maybe Clara will get the help she needs
It is obvious that Alcoholics Anonymous is not giving her the help she needs. Maybe she will seek help from real professionals and she will not give bad ideas to newcomers.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:51
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I am not mentally ill and I
I am not mentally ill and I hardly feel toyed with, DeCon. And it is okay to ignore me. You and I feel about the same about each other.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Brett
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:23
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I sympathize with clara\'s
barman, 6 bloody beer binge, poor buggers probably starved to death. 6 bloody beer binge lol
Brett
becket
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:26
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You went to med school where,
You went to med school where, DeConstructor? It is anything but obvious that mental problems are present here. Very strong opinions, different experiences, different ways of interpreting things, yes; mental problems, hardly.
You deem Clara\'s viewpoint as truly irrelevant because you\'re a man?! Jesus Christ, that is one of the most primitive, redneck shitclaims ever to appear on this forum. Congratulations! Hope your ol\' lady doesn\'t mind being dragged around by her hair and screwed in the middle of childbirth simply because that\'s what YOU want.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:30
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I do not think that DeConstrutor will allow Danny B near
One of our other trolls, Danny B is the one that drags people. I do not think any of us here would let an AA psycho like that anywhere near our families.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
becket
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:32
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How would you even know if he
How would you even know if he were near your family? Oh, sorry I forgot: you don\'t have a family. Another moot point.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
DeConstructor
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 18:41
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I stated as a man
because that was the subject of the thread.
Regarding the med school thing...
AA prides itself, and markets itself as an arresting \'cure\' for an alleged medical \'disease\' We should not forget that newcomers are authoritaively counseled to stop taking prescribed medication such as high blood pressure meds, birth control pills, and insulin, as counseled by persons with NO medical training whatsoever. I am guessing that people have counseled Clara Marietta Becket to stop taking medication that was probably prescribed to allow he/she/it to function in society, yet AA nearly always to counsels these people to stop these meds in preference to being cured by the AA god.
I am trying to be nice, because you obviously have some mental problems.
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:53
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Sorry, DeCon, I don\'t know
Sorry, DeCon, I don\'t know anyone in our fellowship that was counselled not to take perscriptions. We\'ve been down that street.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
becket
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:11
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I\'ve never been counseled to
I\'ve never been counseled to start or stop taking medications by anyone in AA or by anyone who ever attended AA but quit or by anyone who was thinking of going to AA or by anyone who could be considered to have even the slightest connection to AA. You are guessing wrong, manly man.
The fact that your post is saturated with contempt expropriates your lame claim that you\'re trying to be nice.
So, back to the question: where\'d you get YOUR medical degree? In the spirit of AA haters everywhere, I exclaim \"Don\'t deflect!\" Just answer the question. If you can. Manly man.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:14
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You have not been to a meeting in 22 years
Of course you have not ever been told to stop taking medication by AA members, unless you are LYING like Clara keeps getting caught up in. Remember, the more you LIE, the more LIES you have to make up to cover up the first LIE. If you can not find help for lying in AA, please find help somewhere.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
btnben
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 05:08
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How in God\'s name
can you know what is going on in AA if you haven\'t been for 22 years? You say no-one told you to stop taking meds? Are the the bi-polar meds you Grammy holder you?...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
DeConstructor
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:18
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Yep
that never happens in your group. nor 13th stepping, nor rape, nor financial predation. Nor gaslighting, victim blaming, religious intolerance, or racism. Yep just a group of humble exdrunks trying to lend a helping hand.
I am being nice by the way. I have not verbally bitch slapped you, as yet, even as much as you have been asking for it.
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:15
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Yes, DeCon, that is just what
Yes, DeCon, that is just what they were.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
gigi
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:26
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I don\'t know why it\'s so
I don\'t know why it\'s so hard to believe what Becket is saying. For every person I met in AA who was anti-medication, there were 5 who encouraged folks to saty on their meds. It certainly happens that people are advised that they should not take any medications, but it is not an across the board problem. Characterizing it as such is just as bad as denying that it happens at all.
"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:57
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Thank you, Gigi. I
Thank you, Gigi. I appreciate your input because that is how I remember it. I know a woman that took herself off of meds after ten years in the fellowship when she considered that her drunken crazies probably did look lik mania, and I know others that as they progressed in their sobriety, they found less of a need for meds for depression. But these were personal decisions.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 05:18
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1 in 6
That is EXACTLY the same odds as Russian roulette!!!!!
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
genejoe
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 19:27
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Ironic, would it be better
Ironic,
Would it be better for me to wish you luck on your finals or to tell you to stop surfing the web and get back to studying?
You are making assumptions, and probably incorrect assumptions in some cases, as to the gender of those who derail threads.
I am new and I have noticed that there is a small group of folks who will derail threads that tend to have meaningful and interesting content. They use the same banter. I wonder if it is one or two people, probably AA members, who are trying to prevent any meaningful exchange of ideas.
LOL. I wonder if it is AA folks who have had a few too many beers. LOL
genejoe
The Invitation, by Oriah Mountain Dreamer
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:07
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Yeah, but then a whole forum
Yeah, but then a whole forum is dedicated to them - go figure.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:09
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Gen, I wish it were that
Gen, I wish it were that simple. I\'ll come to a forum and there will be several posts already, and they will be mentioning me! I don\'t think it is an AA member that derails...
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:16
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Clara, you come here spouting slogans and pushing literature
This entire site is set up and has always been set up, explaining that what you are doing is gaslighting and a con by AA members. All of the tactics you are using were detailed years ago on http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-propaganda.html . When you first came here, all you could say was read the Big Book or other garbage. This forum is an addon to the main site which is http://www.orange-papers.org .
What makes you think that anyone here wants to hear your slogans and propaganda that has already been debunked years ago.?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
btnben
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 05:11
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And if they\'re not mentioning you....
.... you will very quickly make sure they are...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Clara
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 07:38
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I don\'t think so. I am not
I don\'t think so. I am not the one starting threads about me. It doesn\'t have to become about me, either. But it does because someone tosses in something about a typo or some detail designed to make it personl. Surely you can see your role in this, eh, Ben?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 07:45
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What was your Blood Alcohol Content(BAC) on your DUI?
In South Carolina on a first DUI, three years probation is unheard of unless you were involved in an accident, have a high BAC level or both. You are not being honest with us Clara, tell us how you were indoctrinated into the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous and please do not LIE about it. It is bad for your Spirituality and sobriety. You do not want to be a dry drunk, do you? Remember, you are only as sick as your secrets!
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
dandammit
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:40
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Ironic
Good luck on the tests, everything will go fine.
Clara is diplomatically vicious.
I should not judge her though, I\\\'m an idiot.
causeandeffect
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:48
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Awww, but dandammit, you\'re
Awww, but dandammit, you\'re such a cute idiot. LOL! Diplomatically vicious. I like that. It\'s another way of saying \"gaslighting.\"
Ironic, my lack of tolerance for clara mostly stems from her claiming that AA doesn\'t claim to be the only way to get sober. We have all heard many versions of the \"work the steps or die\" mantra that she\'s trying to deny. Every time she does it, it\'s like Chinese water torture.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Clara
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:54
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Maybe for some it was that
Maybe for some it was that way. If that was their story, are they lying? I wasn\'t told that, and it is sprinkled throughout the literature about AA not being the only way. Having said that, I do know many old timers that had tried other things and found that AA was it for them. I don\'t care how anyone gets sober...just that they do if that is what they want. I\'ve shown you why I believe AA does say this, and if you don\'t want to believe it, that\'s fine.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:58
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Oh what a tangled web we weave....
When first we practice to deceive....
Clara, AA claims it is the only way. Clancy claims that AA is the only way. Quit the pretense, you have been exposed for what you are.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
avogadno
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 21:35
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In comparison to the amount
In comparison to the amount the literature sprinkles the idea that AA is not the only way, it pours out the the implication that to not work AA is to die. Ya know, you said that you liked AA from the start, that you wanted to go. It seems likely that you didn\'t bother to read into the literature that threatens insanity, etc. if you didn\'t work it. Also, you likely didn\'t question members of the group or your sponsor and therefore didn\'t hear such threats.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
avogadno
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 21:45
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And I shall never forget the
And I shall never forget the AA, two hat counselors at the detox that disallowed me visitation with my children unless I went to the on site AA meetings. Can you imagine that? I was also denied the \"privilege\" of wearing my clothes if I didn\'t go to the meeting. I had to wear the hospital gown. True story Clara. They interpret all reluctance to attend AA as denial or a lack of willingness to do something about our problem.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 07:12
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Avo, I think those things are
Avo, I think those things are terrible. Do you mind saying where you went to rehab?
Can I also ask if you could have just left? It sound like jail!
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 07:22
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Comments like that make me wonder
if someone ever had a drinking problem? Marietta\'s full of them too. \"you could have just left\", \"why not leave if it\'s not for you\" and M\'s favorite of always blaming the victim.
If you\'ve really got a drink problem you are on your knees before you seek out these places. You are beaten. Often rehab or AA is the only place left to go. The fact that people who run both organisations know this and exploit it is the main reason this forum exists.
I really believe that you don\'t have the first idea what it means to be an alcoholic Clara. Not one single idea. You\'ve found a social club that you can achieve some kind of status in. The fact that you won\'t go to meetings in EP proves it. A true AA would go to meetings anywhere - ask Bill W...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
Clara
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 08:09
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My reason for asking is that
My reason for asking is that if someone is vountarily commited, you can leave. I don\'t know the circumstances of her admission to rehab.
I do go to meetings here, and I\'ve posted that. The probem with this forum is people pick and choose what they want to out of your posts. I have also told you of my issue with the general format used here. When most of the hour is used to discuss 420 (something I had to ask my husband about...) what can I get out of it? There is not a lot of singlness of purpose here, and I don\'t relate. But you are right in one respect. AA in MB is much more social. You literally could build a life with no one else but AA people in it if you chose that. My husband worked so he had more outlets to meet people than I did, so most of the people I knew were in fact fellowship people. I didn\'t have a problem with that, either. It showed me that life without drinking was possible and they had good FUN sobrieties.
Ben, I got DUIs in just about every place I ever lived. I am not sure why anyone laughs at the six drink deal, but clearly alcohol and Clara equaled problems. Not only for me but others too as I drove drunk all the time. In fact, in MD, if you went to happy hour every night and had three drinks, you were above the drink/drive limit everytime you left the bar (especially when the .10 changed to .08). I am glad that AA teaches you not to measure your stuff to others. That type of thing could get someone thinking, \"I can drink again. These people don\'t seem to think I am an alcoholic...\" To the wrong person, these posts could be really dangerous.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 08:28
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AHhh... the Story changes, now it is multiple DUI
How many DUI have you had? Were you mandated to AA in any of them? By the way, having to take treatment and if part of that treatment is going to a self-help group and there are no other options besides AA, that is being mandated to AA.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Brett
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 11:04
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6 beers lol
these people don\'t seem to think I am an alcoholic/to the wrong people these post could be dangerous.Tell me again,how dangerous is a 6 beer binge. 6 beer binge rolmao
Brett
JR Harris
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 07:37
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Clara, why not tell us about the mandatory treatment 1st DUI?
Clara, in South Carolina for a first DUI you have to take mandatory alcohol treatment. What did that entail? I do not suppose that they said you had to go to a self-help group during treatment and AA and NA were the only ones available?
Please remember that you have already stated that this does not happen and the problem with LYING is that you have to tell more LIES to cover up the first ones.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Ironic
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 20:58
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I hear ya, C&E
Cuz I also heard \"Work the steps or DIE\"
avogadno
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 21:37
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I\'m sure you did Ironic.
I\'m sure you did Ironic. That\'s a common threat and anyone that shows apprehension will likely here a similar slogan.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
causeandeffect
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 21:46
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Another thing that makes it frustrating
is that we\'ve heard these same reports from as far west as California and Oregon, to as far east as the France and Australia, as far north as Canada, and as far south as Texas and Florida. These reports come from everywhere. And it\'s the same everywhere, but clara still tries to deny it.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
JR Harris
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 22:00
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Well it is obvious that Clara is sugar coating her mandating
In South Carolina, with a first DUI, you have to go through an Substance Abuse evaluation. She was brainwashed into believing she had a life long disease and took the bait hook line and sinker. As usual Clara didn\'t prepare her BS story correctly and she is holding back and saying she wasn\'t mandated. Her story falls apart at so many levels it is hilarious.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 07:14
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I have heard people say it in
I have heard people say it in the context that if they hadn\'t worked the step, they wouldn\'t have arrested their alcoholism and it could have ended up in death. I never took that in a literal context. To be fair, there were people that could have drank themselves to death. I know people that did.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
massive
Mon, 04/30/2012 - 14:05
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Ironic- have you ever looked
Ironic- have you ever looked at Donna Cornett books Drink Link Moderation? IM reading it now. She has a book for college students as well.
Massive
Ironic
Mon, 04/30/2012 - 18:18
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Massive
No I haven\'t, though I did listen when she appeared on your show.
I would not be very likely to read her book, I don\'t think. The reason is because I don\'t have any problem turning down alcohol, I very rarely even have one, and that one never ever turns into six or something, idk..and like I said on the phone, something tells me she does not advocate for the responsible use of heroin (and I myself don\'t even know if I believe that is possible).
humanspirit
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 21:10
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Well, I dunno, Ironic.
Well, I dunno, Ironic. Possibly some of the men on here are more into arguments and point-scoring, and the women more into sticking to the important issues, which might mean that women get more pissed off with and have a lower tolerance for the likes of Clara and others who just don’t think this is a serious matter (just an impression).
I’m female and wouldn’t want to see Clara banned, even if she does do her best to avoid any kind of rational discussion and is a narcissistic attention-seeker. From a purely disinterested psychological point of view she illustrates passive-aggressiveness and faux naiveté perfectly.
Anyway, I must admit I’m quite fascinated with the soap opera of her AA marriage, her three-times married husband, the story of his devious AA but non-sober ex-wife, the way he chooses his wives on the basis of the quality of their sobriety, and his tendencies to put bugging equipment into the phones and computers of his various wives to check whether they are drinking or not. If we banned Clara we wouldn’t get to hear what happens next.
So as far as I’m concerned, we should all join in a campaign to Keep Clara! OK, she has nothing of merit to contribute to the serious debate that some of us are trying to have here, but she does provide some tangential amusement.
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