Depression and God

Submitted by humanspirit on Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:59

Not quite as off-topic as it seems. There's an interesting debate going on over at the Guardian at the moment - apparently some evangelical christian has said that depression is caused by ego, resentments, self-pity, etc. and that finding God is the answer (now where have we all heard something like that before?):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/26/god-cure-depr...

Substitute 'addiction' for 'depression' and you'll get what I mean by this not being off-topic.

Comments

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 20:42

Yes it does - thanks.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 13:06

http://youtu.be/ZxEJHO8KIXY

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 13:09

You wont find this guy in an AA mtg!
http://youtu.be/UUN9FNywMVk

Brett

Fri, 04/27/2012 - 17:28

would be depressed if all he could handel was a 6 beer binge, 6 bloody beer binge lol.

Brett

genejoe's picture

genejoe

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 06:30

jonnijoy: Peter Popoff makes atheists wish there was a hell so people like him could suffer for eternity.

There is an incredible similarity between Peter Popoff and AA. It takes a lot of blind faith to be a part of either. You have to give up, or never have had, the ability to reason and use logic. You have to ignore blatant contradictions - hence the need for faith. And, there are a few folks who benefit from it. Those who are harmed by it, well, it\'s there fault for not having more faith.

genejoe

The Invitation, by Oriah Mountain Dreamer

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:48

Genejoe I agree with you 100%. I left AA for many reasons but I have maintained my position that AA is not a dangerous place to go. We can call it a cult or whatever. We can say it sucks, doesnt work, has a 95% drop out rate. Its probably all true but I do know from experience that it is not dangerous. Church is more dangerous. If Jr. Harris would like I could google church scams, killings, child molestations or just copy and paste scripture from the real big book. If you are a believer the bible must be taken literally. And if a christian does not agree, the argument \"not in my congregation\" or \"thats not the Christianity that I practice\" will not work here on this forum.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:57

AA can be dangerous. I never sought out to prove that it was more or less dangerous than other religions. That isn\'t the objective.

As a recovery group that invites people that are sick, many of which are vulnerable women and young people, to integrate with others that have a high % of felonious priors - including those solicited from prisons. The structure allows for abusive situations because there are is no authoritative guidance to ensure that the integration of these unbalanced personalities, while offering dominant roles to ANYONE, doesn\'t result in victimization.

I will go on record as saying that some groups seem quite safe, but it is only because the positions of hierarchy were thankfully achieved by decent people. Other groups become dominated by abusive and manipulated people, or allow for those types to act out in such ways because there is no over-site. The lack of any authoritative presence allows for this to happen. There is no valid reasoning as to why this should be allowed to occur.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:25

Thank you, AVo, for recognizing that groups CAN be different. It has been my experience that they are.

I am not sure how or why AA became the catch all place for mandated people, especially for people whose problems are not related to booze. The original episode of being at a hearing for someone is depicted in the BB. The guy was going to jail for failure to pay child support. To me, a civil wrong differs from a criminal one. I don\\\'t really even mind if people come to meetings from prison if it is a choice. I do know people that work with those imprisoned alcoholics, but that differs from someone that is being mandated to meetings as a condition or in lieu of jail.

The way it is set up is that no dominate personality has any bigger role than anyone else. We are just to be trusted servants, but the way it generally happens is that people leave but a few to do all the work. It creates an imbalance.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:24

Does your current coven of Bill WIlson chanters know that you deem them less appropriate than your Myrtle beach coven?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:37

Curious:

When did courts first begin mandating AA attendance?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:46

Becket, I don\'t have the documentation handy, but I remember a news article from no later than the early 40\'s when the judge released drunken offenders to members of the program. This I think instead of an asylum, something that I would definitely find preferable myself.

I think it was along the lines of the drunk contacting his minister, who in turn contacted the fellowship to help the man.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 12:14

I think the information is how sponsorship got started.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:00

Did I mention that most AA meetings take place in churches? Go for it, I would like to have another debate on if AA is Safer than McDonalds again like on this thread were it is proved that that is not the case - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/719

Dispute at Baldwin Park AA meeting ends with woman shot in the head
By Frank Girardot on November 11, 2011 7:27 AM

BALDWIN PARK - An argument between two men during an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting led to a woman being shot in the head Thursday night.

Officers are looking for the shooter.

Baldwin Park police Lt. Joe Bartolotti said the woman is the wife of one of the men.

The shooting broke out about 7:30 p.m. in a church parking lot at Stewart Avenue and Los Angeles Street.

Bartolotti said the men got into a fight during an AA meeting held at the church. He didn\'t know what the dispute was about.

The fight spilled into the parking lot. Bartolotti said one of the men pulled out a gun and fired once.

The round didn\'t hit the other man who police said was the intended target. The man\'s wife who was sitting in a car was shot instead.

Police weren\'t sure if the husband was also inside the car at the time of the shooting.

The vehicle rolled across the street and came to rest at the curb.

Bartolotti said the woman was taken to Los Angeles County USC Medical Center where she was listed in stable condition.

The suspect fled the scene. He was only described as a Latino about 20 wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and jeans.

Source: http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/2011/11/dispute-at-baldwin-park-aa-m...

PS - The scumbag has still not been found. Do you think the concept of anonymity might be causing the coven of AA member this happened in to not be giving the truth, the whole truth and nothing bu the truth?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

flannigan

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 10:19

According to Roman Catholic theology, the \"Immaculate Conception\" refers to the belief that Mary, the mother of Christ, was born without original sin. It does not have anything to do with the birth of Jesus.

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 11:43

flannigan is correct. Catholics believe Mary was the first, last and only human being born without Original Sin other than Adam and Eve. They could not have Jesus being born of a woman who was tainted in any way, so this was the solution.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

jonnijoy's picture

jonnijoy

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 12:04

As a recovery group that invites people that are sick, many of which are vulnerable women and young people, to integrate with others that have a ((((high % of felonious priors))))) - including those solicited from prisons. The structure allows for abusive situations because there are is no authoritative guidance to ensure that the integration of these unbalanced personalities, while offering dominant roles to ANYONE, doesn\\\'t result in victimization.

Has it ever occurred to you Avo that You have commited many felonies while maintaining your opiate habit?? You are a person that was obviously never caught but nevertheless im sure you commited felonies while illegally using dope. Are you telling me you never lied to Dr. to get early prescription filled or went to a different Dr.? You never copped of the street? How many should be felons are on this forum?? Possibly everyone! I know I am but how many others have driven under the influence of alcohol or drugs multiple times? If you they were caught they would have a felony and maybe been in AA too! Do you consider yourself dangerous Avo?/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sun, 04/29/2012 - 14:18

JJ, this bridge as been crossed in the past, her in the OPF. Too bad I do not have the link handy.

Anyway, to answer your questions. I did not doctor shop, however I did buy on the street. We determined before that this is considered a felony, considering that I was regularly holding large quantities of opiate based drugs (for personal use). I didn\'t deal, and I have never stolen from anyone for any reason. I\'ve never committed a violent or sexual crime, let alone been arrested or convicted of one. There was absolutely never a time that I was involved in an abusive situation as a perpetrator and I\'ve never participated in any kind of violence. No, I absolutely do not consider myself dangerous.

Supposing I did though, what is your point? Could it possibly be that nearly all AA/NA members are potential felonious participants and that XA groups are in need of safety measures? This is what it sounds like to me.

My guess is that most AA\'s are not violent or sexual criminals. I like believing in the overall good of mankind, but I am also a realist. If all AA\'s were of that sort it would likely be the bloodbath that you claim it is not. I actually agree that it isn’t, and this is only because there are decent people in the program that take it upon themselves to watch out for those that are most vulnerable. Unfortunately because of the structure and lack of authority, perps have the opportunity to involve themselves with vulnerable and trusting souls because there is no oversight in sponsorship or leadership roles. They can easily slip into the lives of others under the guise of being helpful. For the predator this opportunity is disgustingly beneficial.

My argument is that the structure allows for this behavior to occur, violent and criminal behavior is prevalent in SOME GROUPS, and AA has the means to make change and reduce the victimization that does happen. No one should endure abuse when it is reasonably preventable. Especially when it is a known occurrence, claimants have been recognized and ignored. It is sad, but the truth is that dangerous criminals are involved in these groups and ALL of them have the high potential to be become predatory grounds. This is due to the dynamics of meetings, lack of any safety guidelines, the “keep coming back” police (no one is kicked out and everyone is invited back), and the absolute disgusting AA.org stance of ignorance.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 13:09

Quite sad, really.

And if she feels OPF is helping her in her sobriety, fuck everyone else. That is the AA way.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 04/28/2012 - 13:26

Who could be lonely with all of you wonderful, cheery folks around?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

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