Marty Mann, another AA socialite that broke the traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, becoming a solicitor for the cult.

Marty Mann breaks personal anonymity and did so at the level of press. Instead of scorned for her obvious lack of humility and overt infringement of Step 11, she’s historically praised.

----11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.----

Consider the following article where she was photographed as well as named as a member of AA. This is an obvious breech of traditions and yet another example of the foundation of lies AA was built upon. Such an obvious ad campaign driven by herself and other “members” of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Snippits from:

Mrs. Marty Mann. Speaker Next Friday. Alcoholics Anonymous Sponsor Open Meeting.
The Sunday Morning Star, Feb 18, 1945.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Q9AmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mgIGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4...

“Mrs. Marty Mann, first woman member of Alcoholics Anonymous…will be the principle speaker at a public meeting…in the ballroom of the Du Pont hotel Friday evenening.”

“The purpose of this meeting is to acquaint the public with the work and methods of Alcoholics Anonymous and the problem of alcoholism.”

In other words, designed to solicit the public into a cult religion based on false premises.

Comments

Clara's picture

Marty Mann, Pioneer

Marty Mann founded the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence (NCADD) in 1944, a time when few Americans understood alcoholism as a disease, one that was deadlier than all but heart disease and cancer. The first woman to stay sober in Alcoholics Anonymous, Marty wanted to share the joy of her recovery, using knowledge and reason to destroy the stigma that discouraged many people from seeking help. Marty dedicated her life to informing the public that alcoholism was not a weakness of character, but a disease from which every alcoholic could recover.

Marty traveled the United States garnering support for her awareness campaign, earning the support of those in recovery along the way. Brinkley Smithers, one of the founders of the IBM Corporation, took notice of Marty’s efforts and his financial support enabled Marty to expand her travels, providing lectures on alcoholism and organizing NCADD affiliate field offices throughout the country. Marty’s direct educational and organizational contributions to these communities lent credibility to the idea of alcoholism as a disease and cleared the way to treatment options that reflected this new understanding.

NCADD in Alaska

Marty arrived in Alaska during the 1960s and established organizations throughout the state. The Juneau Affiliate, founded in 1965, was the first nonprofit incorporated affiliate in Alaska. For 45 years we have been focused and exacting in our core missions of stigma reduction and intervention in the disease process of those afflicted by chemical addiction. Funded by government grants, private foundations, and fees from services, we have consistently fought chemical addiction for almost as many years as Alaska has held statehood.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Who cares, she broke her anonymity, it wasn't wasn't conference approved, it wasn't Bill Wilson approved and she broke with AA traditions. She was a con woman acting just like Bill Wilson and she solicited money from outside organizations, non-Alcoholics and pretty much just begged for money. How sweet... whats your point? This thread is about Marty Mann breaking with AA traditions. Which she did.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Marty Mann was hugely encouraged in her efforts. She was the one person that was okayed to go public. You don't have to like it, JR. And I am sure that many people contributed to the non-profit, which is fine, too. Why the rancor?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Marty Mann was not OK'd to go public. Quit lying............

Marty Mann relapsed shortly after her LSD trips with Bill Wilson. She was a figure head to grow the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous in the courts and government, nothing more. She was not a good AA member and she was also the first person to "break" the anonymity clause of the 12 Steps. Why are you trying to make her some kind of female saint? She wasn't, get your AA history facts straight before posting.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

btnben's picture

Who by? If someone today wanted to go public, who would they ask? What form would they fill in? I can't find anything in writing that says she was "Okayed"?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

I understood that Bill W. was her sponsor. Not sure of that, but I think so. People go public today all of the time.

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btnben's picture

None of your normal common or garden farmyard droppings, this offering is true, #1, top-grade horseshit...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

It is my understanding that Bill DID want to do it, but that Dr. Bob et al said no. There is no AA published bio on Marty. The one that is available was done outside of the fellowship.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

AA has no leaders and the Books published by AAWS are not approved by a "conference?. In fact "conference approved" did not come about until May 21, 1993 when AAWS (not the fellowship) failed in lawsuits for the circle and triangle logo. At that time they replaced the circle and triangle with "conference approved" without going through any conferences.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/aaconferenceapproved.html

You should go back to the old standby of "it doesn't happen in my group" Clara. The people here know AA history much better than you.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

I don't question that many people know far more about AA's history than I do. I didn't care about it. It still doesn't change that the bio out there wasn't done by AA. You were the one that brought it up.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

She broke AA traditions and therefore was not a good AA member and should not be looked up to by any AA members as a role model of good sobriety. By the way, did you know that Marty Mann relapsed after experimenting with LSD with Bill Wilson?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Yes. I think it was long after that. Those experiments were in 1956 or 1958. I am not certain but I think her relapse was 10 years later.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Your best thinking got you here, I know you have gone through a Spiritual lobotomy with AA but don't make statements that you don't know about, it;s bad for newcomers. Next thing you know, you'll be telling newcomers to get opposite sex sponsors following in the footsteps of Clancy, Midtown and the Pacific Group. I certainly hope you don't tell newcomers stuff pretending to know, you're putting them in grave danger.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

btnben's picture

a "Repeat Relapser" or did she have permission to relapse?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

JR Harris's picture

be able to steal the copyright of the first "Big Book and get $320 a month from the Alcoholics Foundation (which was about 8 times the normal wage at the time). They had to know who to write the checks out too.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

DeConstructor's picture

if Bill W sponsored her so he could line up threesomes.

JR Harris's picture

Al-Anon was founded in 1951, it certainly didn't do his marriage any good.

Francis Hartigan: "In the mid-1950s, when Bill was in his early sixties, he began an affair that was different than any he had before. The Woman's name was Helen Wynn, and she was in her early forties when Bill met her. Helen and Bill were together some fifteen years. They saw each other regularly in New York and later in Pleasantville, a town fifteen minutes south of Bedford Hills, where Helen bought a home."
Source: Francis Hartigan. Bill W.: A Biography of Alcoholics Anonymous Cofounder Bill Wilson. 2000. pg. 190.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

alkieanon's picture

The cat was already out of the bag.
1944 - NCAE founded
1946 - Twelve Traditions published
1950 - Twelve Traditions adopted

massive's picture

good point!

Massive

massive's picture

The truth!!!! ahhh ...it will set us free, and keep us honest!

Massive

Clara's picture

Sooo... why was everyone beating up on Marty Mann today? She didn't break any traditions and she had Bill W's support. What the heck?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

AA speaks for the collective ideas of AA via conference, it doesn't matter if YOU think that she had Bill W's support, she didn't have the support of AA in breaking with tradition. She is a disgrace to the AA movement and YOU don't speak for the AA movement. I really hope that you don't have any access to AA newcomers. Your ideas and fabrications are very dangerous to Alcoholics Anonymous. Repent and chant the 12&12 and chapter 5 20 times as your penance AA.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

You are right in that I don't represent AA, which is why I can speak my opinion. I'm speaking as a private citizen on this board, and I think most people know that. Marty Mann didn't do anything that was a secret and my best understanding is that she had Bill W's support to do what she did with founding the NCA and publicly speaking about AA. HE wanted that type of role but it was shot down by Dr. Bob and others. But because of Bill W's "own strong tendancies toward the pursuit of prestige, wealth and power, all of AA's traditions have borne down on me with great force. You will remember that episode back in our living room on Clinton Street. That was the time when my group told me that I could never become an AA Professional. With nearly every Tradition, much the same thing has happened. At first, I obeyed because I had to; I would have lost my standing in AA if I had not. After a while I go obey because I saw that the Traditions were wise and right. While I conformed because it was right to do so, I still resisted inwardly." Bill W.

I'll wait to get the book and read it again. It matters more than what you think, JR.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

In my group, all of the Sponsors are lawyers and of the opposite sex. I lived in DC during the Midtown scandal with AA and drank with Marc Fisher the writer who broke the story in the Washington Post, but I have never heard about Midtown or Clancy I being involved. I know Clancy personally and can email and call him whenever I want. Its OK that I have an opposite sex sponsor because I did my 4th and 5th step with a professional and never did a sexual inventory in AA, it just isn't done........................

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

See what I mean, Cause? JR rewrites my information to suit his purpose and you buy into it. Thank you for not letting me down, JR. I knew you'd quickly give her another sample.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Keeping in Step (no, not 12)with Clara's method of reporting sources......

Source: You can find it on the Orange Papers blog, just go and read it for yourself.

P.S. You have a guilty conscience? I never mentioned any names in my post until now...... good going.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

What's "good going" about something when I had posted a photo? Gosh, you act as if you have a breaking story.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

She continually broke the traditions throughout the 50's and 60's. She spoke at over 2000 "meetings" disclosing her status as an AA member to promote the disease theory of alcoholism.

Of course she had Bill W's support. He loved the free promotion that AA was getting, despite that it was a program of attraction.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
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Clara's picture

When I get her bio from Amazon, I will read it and see what they say. The best information I have is that she did not continue to disclose memberships at her talks unless they were AA related events. I think her additional work in the field could be easily discussed without that disclosure in additional venues. I have a Clancy cd where he spoke at a medical convention and he didn't disclose, either. In the Traditions pamphlet, even though Bill consented to Marty's earlier disclosures, he came to view it as a mistake and there is an acknowlegdgement of that in that literature. You can also read about it in Pass It On.

I think there is a certain amount of promotion that just goes along with it. How were people to know AA existed? It isn't as if they had the internet fro the few decades to look up options. People were told about it and invited to come have a look. If there was something that attracted them, they stayed.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Is it "conference approved" by any chance.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

I don't know what the medical conference thought of it, but it disproves the thought that one cannot discuss the concept of disease or allergy without disclosing status in AA.

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JR Harris's picture

"I have a Clancy cd where he spoke at a medical convention and he didn't disclose, either."

What didn't he disclose? If you have the CD and he was at a Medical Convention, he disclosed that he was 1.) At that medical convention, 2.) Used it as a promotion to sell his CD to Steptards stupid enough to buy it, 3.) Went to a Medical Convention where he was being taped talking about something and Iam sure that it wasn't ingrown toenails (Alcoholics Anonymous maybe?).

Be real, this isn't a bunch of newcomers you are talking too and I will call you every time you make silly statements like that. You are a danger to newcomers to Alcoholics Anonymous, please start being honest.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Just as I said. He didn't disclose that he was a member of AA. Just because you don't keep up with a thread has nothing to do with me. Besides, you'd respond to anything I posted, anyway.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Right, just like Bill Wilson maintained anonymity by allowing Time (or whatever news agency it was) to photograph him only from behind (after he had appeared on the front page of newspapers many times before). Everyone knows who Clancy is.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

avogadno's picture

Then why LIE and say it's a program of attraction and not promotion?

That's a case of saying that the end justifies the means. You can read about that in the OP.

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Clara's picture

I don't think it is a lie, Avo. Often when I hear people say that they were "stuck" in AA for whatever reason, they become offended when I ask them why they didn't look for options to the program. They seem to feel that SOMEone, SOMEplace should have HANDED the information to them because they just didn't know... despite the fact that SOS has been around for 27 years, SMART since 1992 and a host of others... We've talked on this board about how it was AA's obligation to provide information for althernatives. Otherwise they were just being selvish. I say, why? Why isn't it up to someone to do his or her own research? I don't expect someone to chase me down the street and ask me my secret for happiness. I don't have any problem with a certain amount of information being available to someone. The attraction comes from coming to a meeting and seeing if you hear something you like.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

I've said before that it's not that their aren't a bunch of choices (although I wish there were), it's that AA says you will die without it. That AA is the only way. It's a lie, and this is the lie I am talking about! It's repetetive in meetings, the literature, and by two-hat counselors/doctors. I've heard it myself.

I quit without using a different program to take AA's place. It's not needed.

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Clara's picture

Well, Avo, as I have said, I can only use my own experience. I don't recall people being told that they would die without AA. They might die if they kept drinking as they had been, but they had been told that by so many others that I don't know if that sprang up from meetings or what. I know that our literature is written for worst case scenarios, and that not everyone was going to die if they took a drink. Some might, though. AA might not be needed by all, but there are some that find it to have been a real lifesaver.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Out of that 5% that stay, the lies and stupid rituals take its toll and many end up committing suicide where the scum of the earth AA cockroach members make martyrs out of them to try and get newcomers to join the cult.

Shouldn't you be with your newlywed husband instead of on the computer all day?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

You know that my husband works, JR. Is being on the computer why your wife left you or did she decide that sobriety was a better bedfellow?

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JR Harris's picture

You're here 24/7, besides doesn't your husband go to meetings without you? Better watch out, spending all of this time on the computer instead of your newlywed husband who dumped one AA marriage for another one real quick isn't very smart. You better put spyware on his phone.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Don't worry about us. You know I go to meetings with him, and I go to a ladies meeting on Mondays at 10:30. No need for spyware. If my husband wanted out, he would tell me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

I did do research. I then paid quite a bit of money for a 4 day anesthesia assisted detox. Well, that doesn't handle PAWS (not to mention that that detox believed on treating us unnecessarily with meds that in my case made PAWS far worse) or any continued pain problems. That was, what 1500 miles from where I live? So trying to get help locally for that, well, getting help for PAWS is pretty hit and miss depending on what doc you find, so I ended up not only not getting good help, but thrown back to two hatters. While also trying to get help for the remaining pain from a not-yet-healed injury, and long story short, it was such poor help I just ended up relapsing. I don't deny that it was a relapse, though it was also an attempt to end both the pain and the PAWS (or is that what most early relapses in opiate addicts actually is? Because for almost everyone I've talked to, it was really just that and not nearly as much the chasing of a high.)

It was insisted on at that point that I go the "traditional" route. So despite all of my research, and despite the notion in the local recovery industry that you find "exactly what is right for you", and if you're not willing to mortgage your home to pay for it you're not "going to whatever lengths it takes for your sobriety", I just tried to let it wash over me, put up with it while creating my own program in my head, and ultimately succeeded.

It'd be all in the past had it not been the post-rehab insistence that my family "force a true bottom" to get me to "submit" and the other fact that they all but murdered a friend of mine from that rehab. If not for that added trauma, hell, I'd have this firmly behind me. But I find forgiveness to be highly overrated, especially if it furthers the same abuses on more innocent people. Sorry, I know it's not "abuse", it's "help".

Clara's picture

I don't understand the notion that if you aren't willing to mortgage your home, you aren't willing to do what it takes. It doesn't sound as if you were chasing a high.

PIE, do you think that in their hearts, they thought they were doing the right thing? Your family loves and cares about you.

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Persephone In Exile's picture

Clara, I don't understand that either, and while I perhaps had the means, telling that to someone who doesn't is beyond the pale. I wasn't told to mortgage my home, but I sure heard that aimed at a lot of other people. It was all the more humorous that this was suggested to those of us who didn't want a 12 step rehab, as if we could all find a non-12 step one, fly thousands of miles to it and pay the exorbitant rates. There aren't any others here.

The matter isn't so much what my family did (I was already clean and had no plans to use after that rehab), it was that the center was advising families of those of us who weren't willing to 12 step it to do so to their loved ones. A.) tough love is almost NEVER actually love, at least when I've seen it done, if for no other reason that the people it's practiced on sometimes feel SO abandoned that they kill themselves. No one's "bottom" should be a grave. B.) the members of my family who love me unconditionally get to stay. As for the rest of them, and I won't go into the whole story ever online here, but no. They fully deserve to never see me or their grandchildren ever, ever again. And I'm far happier standing on my own two feet completely cut off in turn by them. Freedom cannot be overrated;)

You are aware that Bill Wilson wrote the 12 traditions?

Clara's picture

Yes. And....?

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causeandeffect's picture

Flan, that's exactly what I was thinking when I read this quote.

"After a while I go obey because I saw that the Traditions were wise and right. While I conformed because it was right to do so, I still resisted inwardly." Bill W.

He wrote them, didn't want to conform to them, and still inwardly resisted, but thought they were wise and right. But he wrote them. Let me it again. He wrote them. What a confused narcissist he was. LOL!

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Clara's picture

Sounds to be as if Bill knew his own failings but also knew what was right. I inwardly resist a lot of things but I do what is right. I'm human.

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avogadno's picture

Bill just knew that he didn't want to be restricted or told what to do. However he thought that we stupid drunks should follow and abide by his word.

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