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Submitted by msafrany on Mon, 04/23/2012 - 05:43

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Comments

billybudd

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:04

like butter in a foundry

Actually I've reckoned that character trait a boon, the one that keeps creeps, harpies, and shitheads at bay. Doesn't seem to work so well in cyberspace.

msafrany

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:21

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becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:00

Well, you're lost right there pal, because "humility" is nowhere near your vocabulary, let alone your attitude.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 14:07

That is against your beloved scripture. Shame on you! Have some humility and and go to the closet and chant Bill Wilson until you can come back with a Spiritual condition. You're a disgrace to the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:30

Taking other people's inventories is all just about any 12 stepper I ever have ever known does.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:09

Yes. And here we have a swooning princess in the picture, being attended to by staff. The princess is exhausted just from the mental effort of taking the inventories of "just about any 12 stepper I ever have ever known."

Does.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:34

Cute. But that's not a princess being waited on, it's two women shooting up morphine.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 11:04

Two women of leisure shooting up morphine that their working, toiling paramours paid for? They can't work - who's paying for the dope? Or are they earning in by working on their backs?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:02

You're the goofball who goes to meetings, JR. The scripture belongs to you, not me. Does it matter that you find me a disgrace to AA? Negatory.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

billybudd

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 16:08

Stunts like this, ms frany, are why I can't respect you. I call you arrogant and snide because you are arrogant and snide. I know your whole being it rapped up in AA though you despise it and don't want any more to do with it. Mine is not though I attend occasionally and lead once a week. I am working the steps in my slow, deliberate, and cautious way, and when I'm satisfied - to my own standards - that a step is completed I move to the next. I only superficially mingle with AAers, don't forge steadfast friendships with them, don't attend extracurricular AA activities. I use the program to understand the role and abuse of alcohol in my life, not yours, not anyone else's. After two years of sobriety I experimented with use again, and have since decided sober is better - for me. No big thing. Why must you insist it is? Don't you have your own life to live?

What else you want to know: how annoying I find you? Very.

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:21

Looks like billybudd finally put the thesaurus away.

billybudd

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:38

you rely over ponderously on this faltering, declasse, hackneyed, jejune jibe.

msafrany

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:21

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billybudd

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:41

Keep riding that hobbyhorse until there's nothing left but splinters in your ass, mulch in the ground, and the imaginary adversary of your febrile imagination. Meanwhile, I'll keep being me, and quite obviously you'll stay helplessly, obsessively, vexatiously you. Peace.

ps. I know you are, but what am I?

msafrany

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:21

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becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:04

I smell a third choice, msafrany. That would be yo' own damn arrogant self.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 15:47

I managed my life just fine, I just couldn't manage my substance use.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

dorak nob's picture

dorak nob

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:05

hey billybudd the steps are never completed , for any problem you have you will be required to work the steps. A endless hell.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:06

Was substance abuse living in the house up the road, avogadno, with the windows shuttered and the lights off? Or was it a permeating facet of your life that affected your relationships, your "self-esteem", your ability to function?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:09

Mind your own business. This isn't a room full of gullible newcomers.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:12

Who you talkin to, Mr. Harris?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:15

Who else? I don't see any other posts directly above mine at this time.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 17:17

You want to play the name game? Try calling me by my screen name: becket. Don't want to play? Then don't.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 21:06

Huh becket? I don't know what you mean.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 21:10

avogadno, you said: "I managed my life just fine, I just couldn't manage my substance use." It sounds as if your substance abuse was a totally separate entity, sequestered from the rest of your life, which you say was quite manageable. If you were managing fine, what was the impetus to quit using?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 09:53

Certainly not Becket. Using was a big part of my life, and it got out of control. As far as my life being unmanageable, my husband and rest of the family found only out when I decided to quit and told them about my addiction. I had managed keeping up with all the duties “required” in keeping up with a home, taking care of the children and all that is involved in productively doing so, keeping up appearances, etc.

The using and how it affected my body and state of mind was what became unmanageable. The quitting was what actually caused problems in my ability to care for my family, etc. Odd as it sounds, this is the truth. Perhaps I stopped before the substances started to impact my ability to manage my life.

I quit because it was killing me. I was vomiting morning and night, my body was swollen, my intake and tolerance was high and I need more to function but using more was becoming impossible to take in more.

That was round one. Round 2 came three years later when I started to use the dope again, incorporated harder “stuff” into my life, and again becoming quite ill. I often wanted to die, this after developing the PTSD. I was still managing what I needed to and on top of that had gone back to work in those last couple of years. When I quit the last time, I couldn’t keep up with work and kids and the house.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:06

Thank you for describing unmanagability so well. It isn't what it looks like to others. It is how it affects us, regardless of substance. Many people use "appearances" as an indicator, and I did myself. People can be high functioning but still become a wreck inside.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 10:44

I don't see a difference between your "body and state of mind" (unmanageable) and your needing "more to function" (manageable??) To me it is all one integrated system, thoroughly impacted by the dependence on the substance. Manageability isn't determined by whether you get dinner on the table on time. The vomiting, the edema, the mental landscape all indicate to me that your life was unmanageable and that the challenge was to manage it anyway.

This is not a criticism of how you experienced your life. It is merely an objective viewpoint of the information you provided.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 16:31

I guess it just comes to be that the terminology we use is different. I managed my life but not my drug use. I believe that I’m being more specific when I say this. I tend to think that unmanageability in life is when you’re missing work, your relationship is falling apart, having trouble with the law, unable to pay the bills, are undesirable to be around, aren’t taking care of yourself (not eating, sleeping, showering). I was able to do all of those things. When I stopped using I started having problems managing my life.

I do admit though that after looking more closely at the few months before I got clean the last time (about 16 months ago) that my life was less manageable. I think it was due more to a “nervous breakdown” rather than my using though. But I could be wrong because I was fucked up most of the time. I had previously been a maintenance user where at this point I was over-doing it regularly.

Either way it all led to the same thing. I needed to stop and I needed help because I wanted to die. Kind of hard to start quitting when you didn’t care about living anymore.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Mon, 04/23/2012 - 22:30

msafrany asks: "How about you show us how it's done?" One step at a time. Climb out of the hole. Don't get stuck.

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 14:13

Normally I'd feel bad for billybudd (I mean IRL), but..wtf, trolls? He came here to this website to jeer and put us down. And now we are supposed to do what? Shed tears over his relapse? Pretend we like him and don't think he is a huge asshole? What??

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 14:22

I know Ironic. I was feeling a bit of sympathy for him for a minute and was considering making a suggestion, uh, not like AA's "suggestions" but then I saw what he wrote about me. Even though I've pretty much left him alone, he was really nasty. So, Meh.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Ironic's picture

Ironic

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 14:25

I feel like I personally (up until recently, anyway) spend too much time on OPF.

So how empty, pathetic and sad must an AA member's life be to even join, let alone become a known poster?

billybudd

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:16

No occasion to fight; there's plenty of me to go around. Spare the withheld mock sympathy for the needy - I'm much too jaded for that lure to entice. And I'm much too impassive for gossipy malice to scare me off. Truth is: I am curious about opposition to AA as it relates to my experiences; and I've grown fond of this place in an admittedly perverse way, since substance is scarce and pettiness predominates. I pop in, pop out, perhaps leave a comment. That such a pair of darlings care enough to take time and tweak mildly pleases. Thanks bunches! BTW, "relapse" is only the calamity one makes of it, and I don't make mine calamitous; you have my permission to not pretend.

*Gasp*! A "known poster" ... wait, what's the alternative: an "unknown poster"? All the same to me.

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