The Big Plan

Submitted by Soberman on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 16:29

I will never attend another AA meeting; I will never change my mind.

Think!

You will never get to walk into another AA club again.
You will never get to go to the Friday morning AA meeting again.
You will never get to brag about how long you have been sober again.
You will never get to rescue another alcoholic again.
You will never get another call from people you know in AA again.
You will never get to read the Big Book again.
You will never get to feel the power you have over the many who fail in AA again.
You will never get to pontificate at the meetings again.
You will never be the big Guru again.
You will never have the attention that you get at AA meeting again.
You will never be asked for your advice again.
You will never get to forgive those who fail again.
You will never get to go to meeting with other alcoholics again.
You will never get to go to the AA conventions again.
You will never get to start another AA group again.
You will never get to greet the members as they come in the door again.
You will never get to feel that they will be glad they knew you again.
You will never get to go to the Christmas eve or New Years eve all night meetings again.
You will never get to think they will say what a good AA you were when you die.
You will never get to go to the 7 am meeting again.
You will never get to start over in AA again.
You will never be asked to give an open talk again.
You will never be the chairperson at the group again.
You will never be the coffee maker at the meeting again.
You will never be a sponsor to the new person again.

Why don’t you do this for several months and then go. Just think how glad they will be to see you again.

You don’t really want to stop going to {AA} now do you?

I think that about covers it.
Sober-man

Comments

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:09

I must have missed that show. I don't know Keeper or anything about her, but she lost her son? I think Monica might've mentioned this to me at some point, but not in detail. Tell me that Clara didn't just blame this woman for not checking up enough on someone who caused her son's death. I'm asking, because I don't know, and really hope that didn't just happen.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:18

PIE, Keeper's son started drinking when he was a teenager. He went to AA and got a sponsor. Keeper asked around as to the reputation of this guy because they were new in town. People knew he was a child molester but refused to disclose that information. Her son was raped and murdered by this guy. For a long time it was unknown who the murderer was. The way he was caught was he went to rehab and showed some of his personal child pornography and the person reported it. It was discovered he was part of a child pornography ring that was preying on people in AA. That's what clara's defending.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:23

OMG....that's just one of the most awful things I've ever heard. He was murdered? Good lord. How horrible. No one disclosed this guy's crimes? How sick. So, if people don't do a full background check on someone who ends up....murdering them or their family members it somehow makes them culpable? Seriously? Sorry, that's a bit too just world fallacy for me.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:41

It was horrible. Just a very sad story. Actually, Keeper had signs along the way. A woman she had asked about the guy told her that she wouldn't do it, but she didn't disclose what she knew about him. That would have been enough for me. Another AA left her son property work 700K. I would have wondered a great deal why someone would do that. It was just bad, awful, egregious... all the way around. Forntunately, the man took photos of his atrocities and a woman in rehab stole them and took them to the police when she was released. Another man ended up killing the perp before he could be tried.

I am hardly defending it, Cause. You are simply trying to make it about me when it isn't.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:54

But nothing about the AA group that vouched for this sick fucks credibility???? I suppose you want Keeper to look at her part in it. No, that's OK, you do it for her:

"Keeper had signs along the way"

"She didn't disclose what she knew about him. That would have been enoufh for me"

"Another AA left her son property work (worth" 70k. I would have wondered".

You know just the right things to make a woman that had the worst possible thing that could ever happen to her, feel guilty on top of it. Typical AA. Sickening.

Check out below. Clearly a reminder how insensitive you are:

"I thought something should have been asked of Keeper, and my question would have been to ask her why she never thought it was weird that her son had been given a 700k inheritance by someone he didn't really know for long and wasn't related to... I can't tell you how much on my radar those people would have been. I also don't know why Keeper wouldn't run her own check on the man. There have been online capabilities for a long time, used primarily for employment"

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:58

Clara won't see anything wrong with that and say so in the same sentence she says she has not been brainwashed. I really don't think she understands what she's saying. It's a sort of "protect the hive" mentality where nothing else matters. Don't be too hard on her. "She is not at fault. She was probably born that way"

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:10

Well, Keeper is the one that mentioned asking the woman about the sponsor because she thought she knew him from a previous state and that the woman was mysterious. Why am I to dispute what Keeper herself said? Why had her son been gifted so extravagantly?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:26

Jesus. No one should've let this man sponsor anyone, if even allowing him to be in the group at all! What was wrong with these people? Too busy keeping "their side of the street clean" to bother with a bloody child molester sponsoring someone? What the hell?!?!?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:32

I am not sure what the woman knew or had heard or how reliable she thought the info might be, but Keeper indicated that she asked her because the woman and the guy had lived in the same place in Florida. The woman didn't recommend it but wasn't forthcoming with any specific details. I don't know who else in the group might have known about it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:38

Which particular show was this? Does anyone have the date?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:40

Lets see how far you can dig yourself with this one. What group and clubhouse did they go too?

By the way call up the Knoxville, Tennessee Intergroup while your at it, and tell them they have judge Richard Baumgartner mandated to AA and he's a pill popper, not an Alcoholic.

http://www.step12.com/tennessee.html

http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1232

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:43

Keeper didn't say.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:49

Right PIE. Horrific isn't it? Of course it was the mother's fault, not the AA's who knew he was a child molester and didn't tell WHEN ASKED!!! Shocking but not surprising. I shudder to think the way Keeper would feel if she looked in on this thread and found herself being blamed. The woman's still terribly, terribly brainwashed, and it would absolutely crush her. Speaking of just world fallacy, I sincerely hope there's a bit of karma for those who hold victims in contempt. I've seen what seems like karma in action. It isn't swift, but it sure packs a punch.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:37

Yes, well, I think above all other peeves I may have, I rather hate just world thinking the most of any human behavior. I certainly do hope they get what's coming to them somehow. Speaking of Massive and her blog, it seems, if I remember correctly, that that's what the "dissenting" commenter was doing there as well. A whole pile of victim blaming. These types can't stop themselves, it seems, with their obsessive thinking that drives them to find constant fault (in hindsight, especially) with others. It's like they're being compelled by something they cannot control....rather like addictive behavior, don't you think? Certainly a "character defect" of sorts. Perhaps these resentful stepping types best do another 4th & 5th step. I don't really see how one could be actually "working the program" while still living such a contradictory message.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:42

I don't think the dissenter was blaming the victims as much as she was pointing out that all you can do is tell someone but that people will still do what they want and they are the ones that answer for that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:55

Clara, I don't really remember what all that person said, only that it was so offensive and awful to me that I had to fire off a response immediately. I'll look it back up.

Ah, here it is. "That means that if YOU were thirteenth stepped and you bought into it, YOU screwed up." Yes, blame the vulnerable people who get taken advantage of for not being on top of their game....while in the midst of trying to end their addictions. This woman shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anyone trying to recover from addiction. She's a great example of the problems I experienced myself, the people who don't only NOT help but are all to happy to sit there telling you your faults and problems. If I could get a general restraining order against any such people who hold these beliefs and attitudes, trust me, I would. How utterly vile.

I found the show with "Keeper", it's here:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/saferecovery/2011/04/20/tragic-death-of-aa-...

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:24

Jesus. I have no clue what this is referencing, but that sounds very, very messed up.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:40

When Causy doesn't like the conversation or the direction it is moving she attacks the person she feels is responsible. Most times this will be a pro-AA'er.
This story is no less tragic then all the other child abductions, rapes, child trafficking ect....that goes on in this country everyday (of every minute).
What is so sad is the disgusting immoral behavior by Monica, Ben, JR, Causy and all the others here on this site (that came here from Stinkin Thinkin) that perpetuate their filthy motives and call it advocacy. These people are not advocates, they are people who were cast aside by AA and got their feelings hurt and now want to use whatever news, person or situation/circumstance to get back at AA. They are vindictive.
Causy, is an idiot who should not be taken seriously at all. "It is on, bitch" Nice, Causy, real nice. Your answer Causy, is to abuse others, that say things you don't like.
You guys are not fooling anyone with your disingenuous motives. I don't care who Monica has on her show or who you are representing. It doesn't change who you people are and what you stand for.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:42

Abuse, rape and murder and up pops Danny. It's like chum in the water.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:01

Chum, yes it is. I thought he was re-banned too. I think I'm gonna puke.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:58

Wait, this idiot hasn't been re-banned? Pity.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 20:05

Yeah Clara, this reincarnation of Danny B is female, with a policeman for a husband. You two should meet up, since he claims to be female, he can be your Sponsor and you won't be going against the "suggestions" of roughly 99% of the AA groups in the world on having an opposite sex partner. You might ask him to shave first.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:46

I wasn't able to hear all of it as it blipped out. While I am not blaming the woman for anything, I would surely have listened to what I was being told about the guy. When a woman told her she wouldn't recommend the guy as a sponsor, it didn't register to Keeper. I WOULD have done a check. To say that you can't get any information on someone because you were getting married, had gotten sick, etc., were moving away seems really sad.

My nephew is autistic and doesn't have a voice. I know my sister has done numerous checks on people in his world for this very reason.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:51

Do you think that one occurrence should be enough to force AA to check all sponsors Clara? Or do you think 5 such occurrences would warrant checking? Or 10? What is the acceptable abuse rate before mandatory criminal records checks are introduced for AA sponsors?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:00

He was 14 years old. I wouldn't have left that to anyone else. The structure of AA is not one where anyone has a "boss." We didn't have youth members in our clubhouse so I cannot begin to think what should and could be done.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:02

It's a shame none of them relate to the questions I asked. Usual tricks.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:54

I am sure you are still hanging around AA people, ask them? Monica (Massive goes to meetings with her husband) maybe ask her, better yet ask her husband. Often times I have read from many posters here that they have gone to meetings (again) ask them?
You don't ask these questions because you could really give a shit, if you wanted to be honest. Many of you who post here, this is as far as your participation goes in changing the status quo concerning AA.
You folks are so full of shit it doesn't surprise people anymore. So many come away from this forum after reading a bit with the opinion that it is just a bunch of bull. The orange papers stand on their own merit. But these forums have been turned into a circus from the likes of JR, Causy, PIE, IFOD, Ben, Monica (Massive) ect....

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:51

Clara, quit lying. Nobody told her anything.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:01

Listen to the broadcast. You don't have to believe me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:22

I don't have to listen to a broadcast I've already listened to in order to know you are a liar. You lie here just about every day. Is that what you learned in AA, clara? That you can just say one thing then say it's opposite and nobody will call you on it? Sorry, you have picked the wrong audience here, clara.

As far as I'm concerned, everybody in AA who know he was a child molester and didn't report that fact to the mother was guilty of being an accessory to that boy's rape; guilty of being an accessory to that boy's murder. But, then, that's AA for you.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:29

I completely agree, C&E. They're all guilty as hell.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 19:29

I don't know what the woman knew or how she knew it, but if someone suggested it wasn't a good idea, I think I would have given that heed. I don't believe she came right out and said directly that he was a molester. Who knows what she knew or had heard or what might have just been a rumor, but she raised a flag. Keeper wanted a male influence for her son and she had a lot of stuff going on personally. It was just a horrible situation all the way around.

I don't particularly care if you believe me or not, but I never once said I went to meetings in DC. It was ten years before I came to the rooms. You are simply mistaken.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:15

Why is that, Cause? I wish that someone could have told any of the people on the panel that AA isn't for everyone and if they are unhappy with it, to go find something that could work for them. But when you say that here on the board, it is never accepted as a loving sentiment that it can be. Posters act as if someone is being kicked out when that isn't the case. Go get the help that you need! AA isn't going to fall if Clara, Avo, Monica, Soberman, Ben or Beckett aren't coming to meetings for whatever reason. But to spend that long in anything, feeling the way she describes, makes no sense. It isn't as if there haven't been options around for 30 years.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 18:24

The manipulation of AA was done by Bill Wilson so he could make 8 times a month what the average person made at that time, not work, drive a Cadillac, live in a home in the expensive part of New York that he conned out of a widow called Helen Griffith and have his mistress Helen Wynn nicely placed 15 minutes away in Pleasantville for quick access.

Bill Wilson is dead, the main person trying to follow in his footsteps right now is Clancy and his Pacific Group which is know worldwide as a rogue AA group.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

massive's picture

massive

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 00:45

Im so sick of some of this work.

Massive

massive's picture

massive

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 00:52

wtf is wrong with you Clara? Are you not connected to people in any real way? How can you ask me this stupid fucking question. You really don't want an answer.

You are fucking insulting me. It's clear to me and everyone here. What kind of person does that.

AN AA asshole. That's who. Just leave me alone and dont talk to me with your stupid opinions . I have had ENOUGH in my stupid 37 years, 36 in AA and especially the last 2 I was a GSR in LA with the worst idiots in GS I have ever met!!!!

Massive

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 14:10

Good.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 03:45

What would one do with all that free time now that AA meetings were no longer necessary?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 06:40

Post more comments on OPF. :P

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:05

Good idea alkie. The sooner the general public knows that AA was founded on deception, lies, fraud and a hokey cultist religion the sooner we as a society will be able to honestly help those in need.

AA and the 12 step program of religion is a fraud and a sham. Oh, and it kills people.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

massive's picture

massive

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 00:53

Run from the cult members and go to the spa with a friend. Read a book in my backyard. Talk to my sons. Hang with my hubby! I love my family. Have a great coffee with a sugary treat.

Massive

msafrany

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 05:46

Very funny LFOD! For steppers, that really is the only game in town. They are so addicted to meetings, even when they are sick of them, they can only think of switching them up. I have heard everything from less meetings to more meetings, to more spiritual meetings to just do speaker meetings. Then there is the great meeting in the sky after someone passes, which probably means they went to hell but they don't realize that is what they are suggesting.
But you will never hear anybody tell people to move on. Make new friends and find new interests to break the addiction/cult religion cycle.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 18:33

Why do you care? What are you doing here?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Thu, 04/19/2012 - 19:02

AA damages people and kills others.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Sun, 04/22/2012 - 07:43

Not here:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_04.pdf

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