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Sat, 04/21/2012 - 16:44
Thank you for that. Your story eloquently depicts the way the program sets us up then the "friends" let us down when we need them the most. Absolute abandonment. Much easier to stay away from drugs and alcohol without that.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 17:05
Thanks both. Ya know, before I beat it out of there (actually, it took two more relapses and then down right refusal of going), I found that what really frightened me about it was that I thought "this is what sobriety is like?". Always down, feeling sorry for myself, thinking/talking about how awful my using days were, always struggling to feel "normal". Outside the rooms life didn't revolve around the problems people had and if they would survive to see tomorrow....I enjoy laughing now and no need to run off to a meeting if I get that urge or a problem. I switch what I'm doing and focus on other things, not my "disease" and certainly don't think about using or listen to people talk about it. It's so strange, now when I see it on tv it doesn't affect me near as much.
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 18:55
i want what you have, thanks for sharing avogadno. experience strength and hope goes both ways..
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:21
That's really nice to hear dorak, I appreciate it. :=) I'm not always confident and happy now, but I am often times. I continually work on it. Like I said, I don't think I'm diseased but I do think that I'm an addict. I don't constantly remind myself of this though. Only enough so that I don't lose focus. I've learned to take notice of when I start reverting back to old thought and behaviors. I consciously change when I do.
However, I believe that I will recover from my addiction, I'm just not there yet. I spent some time trying to figure out when this would be (for me). I came to the conclusion that it will most likely happen when I don't have cravings (at all), and also when I can be in the room with drugs and not get a thought/urge to use them. Not that I'll put myself in that position ya know, I don't want to be around that stuff at all. I just think I'll know when that it's possible for me to do that. My counselor suggests that I start hating it again. I'm not there yet.
Persephone In Exile
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:27
Don't know if this happened for you, but my memories got all but wiped out for a lot of it....they're weird, it's as if I was on one track my whole life, then while on meds that seems to form a different mental track in my head. I can look back and see it, but it's not as if I experienced it somehow. More like taking out a book and thumbing through it, the memories I have. Somehow my thoughts, my patterns of thinking in general went right back to the exact same tracks I had been on prior to ever being put on the SSRI that preceded the opiates.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:34
Perse, you mean it's hard to remember the months/years that you were using or all of your past?
I honestly can't remember most of my using days. Once in a while I'll see a picture and I'll get something from it but yeah, it's like they were wiped out and replaced with how I remember being a very little girl. Small bits. I also had those shocks, so I think that was part of it. My husband will recall times from our dating years and I get sad because I can't remember it. I really wish I had kept a journal and took lots of pictures.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:47
Well, '09 and almost all of 10 are pretty much just gone. Barely there, just the times I was withdrawing. But no, my memories are just as if I'm looking back at someone else's life and not my own for the entire time I was on SSRIs. Even moreso than opiates, for some reason. But the times on opiates are just this obliterated mass of goo in my brain it seems, especially the last year or so....except that I can look in on the memories and access them if I want to, they just in no way form any emotional/experiential overall memory that is cohesive with the rest of my memories.
I know, it sounds weird. I wanted entirely different things, had different motivations, just acted completely differently on that damned SSRI. Once off it, all of those things reverted back to how I was prior to taking it, so it's hard for me to even relate to the person I was on it. I'm really into gratification delay and long term goals, for example, but on that med I was dulled out and wanted anything that promised instant gratification.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:57
Well, perhaps it's a mass of goo and void of emotional awareness because opiates help you not to feel. Physically but probably emotionally too.
Before moreso but occasionally now I have a hard time feeling very happy. It's almost uncomfortable, like I don't know how to handle it. Unfortunately the drugs shut out all emotions for me, good and bad.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 09:32
The SSRI was not a good medication for you. That is why having close monitoring by your doctor is strongly advised. I had a similar experience when it came to disassociation or "tracked thinking" that only got worse when I felt anxious or depressed. It was not caused by the medication, it was driven by the illness.
The art of medicating takes time, and it took time to finally get the combo tuned to just right. Taking medication gets tedious, but it is a hell of a lot better than suffering from an illness. Self medicating with alcohol eventually destroys you. Most who are sick don't realize how sick they really are.
The science of medicating is advancing forward. Medications will become more effective, with less side effects. The decision to medicate, or not medicate should not be taken lightly, or made alone.
I once heard an old timer in the "program" declare that medications interfered with spiritual growth. He told his many sponcees that mental illness was a spiritual matter. If you didn't believe in the human soul, then you should just medicate until you did so. If you believed in the realm of the spirit, you shouldn't medicate at all. This moron was a janitor, not a medical doctor.
Stay far away from the nazi inspired death worship cult known as aa. They will fuck you up.
Go ahead, enjoy yourselves - it's getting late, much later than you think.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 09:48
Well, that was the thing, Dolson. The SSRI wasn't a good med for me mentally, but it worked really, really well to erase a pain syndrome I had/have. And I mean it just erased it. Wasn't even there anymore, and I was terrified to go off of it. Then it stopped working for that, and I was switched around on lots of others. I ended up on none finally, after rehab, then went back on the one I'd originally been on and within a month I was a blob of goo again, and not just my memory. It was horrible. That's when I realized how different my thinking was on it, too. I also ended up with horrible muscle spasms with no obvious cause, and the docs now think it was a form of tardive dystonia/dyskenesia caused by the paxil. I don't know, in the end that med just made me depressed. Even the last time I was on it for only 2 mos. It changes my thinking enough that I just get depressed, which is funny, as I'm not normally someone who suffers from depression at all. I like to be very up and boppy all the time, and that SSRI just took my drive away completely. I mean, seriously, that last time I tried it I gained 30 lbs in one month (which wasn't entirely bad, I had been at 93, but STILL, that is extreme!), lost my libido and ended up watching all 6 seasons of that show "Lost" on Netflix. I didn't even like that show, dammit, I just lose my willpower utterly on paxil and stop making good decisions. But then, losing any drive to exercise, gaining weight and killing your libido, well, that's a recipe for depression (situational) if I ever heard it.
It is a bit weird, honestly, most people don't react so severely to SSRIs. There's possibly just less press on it here, in the UK there are tons of stories about SSRI related suicide. Particularly Paxil/Seroxat.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 10:12
Paxil is a bad medication for many. I had fellows in a support group describe their skewed thinking and feelings while on that drug. I never considered taking it due to the side effects. I did start on the SSRI Celexa (citalopram) initially. It worked very well in alleviating anxiety and depression, but it made me lethargic as hell, it also removes the libido. Long story short - I changed over to Wellbutrin (Bupropion) which is a SRNI. It was a much better fit. Although the removal of the SSRI made for a unpleasant 2 weeks.
WARNING: Watching 6 seasons of Lost increases the likelihood of spontaneous suicide.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 10:22
"WARNING: Watching 6 seasons of Lost increases the likelihood of spontaneous suicide."
Is it "Lost" itself that increases the likelihood, or is it the watching of it? There is a difference. Are you blaming the show and what it portrays, or are you blaming the viewer for allowing himself to get totally sucked in to the experience?
What is "spontaneous suicide"?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 10:28
While I do not pin suicides on AA, wouldn't you agree that 1) many people who enter the rooms are in weakened and susceptible mental states and 2) AA generally does everything it can to totally suck those people into the experience?
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 12:18
Weakened? Yes. Susceptible? Yes. Stupid? Not necessarily. And in any case the door swings both ways, always.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 10:34
ROFL....I have no idea what made me sit on the sofa watching that damned show endlessly. That's how little was going on in my brain. I didn't even enjoy it much while I was watching it, just a few of the actors. Of all the things I could've picked on Netflix....honestly. What was I thinking?
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:13
It's always been important to me to have a fun sobriety and not to feel as if I "work" at it every day.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 19:16
Oh hell. A friend started a thread on a social media site, involving muscle spasms and pain she's having, asking what's best for it. The discussion went nuts, and it wasn't long before a stepper showed up. Accusing someone else of "denial". This is going to get interesting.
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 09:30
How do you relapse from a behavior? Core beliefs about disease taught in AA cause deadly relapses.