Counter Speech

Is the fact that you are a consistent presence here. Dropping in to share your opinion is different than blatantly trolling, which is what you do.

"Fine if you want to go there. You are as welcome as anyone else." To e-AA? Are you kidding? Questioning the program on e-AA leads to a permanent ban, no matter how respectful you are. I've never joined but I've looked (I've got respect like that, not to go where I am not wanted) and seen it happen a few times, a surprising amount of times for the few seconds I've spent looking there.

I don't care if AA worked for you. There are plenty of places you can go to share about how fantastic your cult is with like minded individuals. This is not one of them. You are here to upset people and upset their process of deprogramming. You say that people have a choice? Well, people that choose to get the fuck out of AA choose to come here, maybe to look at research, maybe for some support.

You are here to try and shame people and because you obviously can't stand anyone expressing their opinion about AA having the last word.

And you are right about one thing. I do not understand the mental dysfunction involved in choosing to spend so many hours a day on a website that opposes your beliefs. It is just kind of pathetic.

I have learned a great deal about AA on this very site, Ironic, things I never would ahve thought to question or research. How I choose to spend my time is my business, and I note that you don't say the same about others that spend certainly a larger quantity of time than I do. Why the prejudice?

Orange has welcomed others into what is an open forum. You don't have to like it, but it is a fact.

ARE ANTI-AA. AS IN, THEY SHARE THE BELIEFS FROM WHICH THE ORANGE PAPERS WERE CREATED.

Orange keeps this an open forum so that the whole world may see the trolls defense of AA. Which is not based in scientific fact, as are our beliefs. A creative way to display who has got the facts on their side.

Not you, that is for sure.

What exactly about Bill Wilson's description of alcoholism "has been born out by science"? And who were the "many people" you refer to?

Clara, your personal opinion does not equate to anything being "born out by science." We see through your little word games. We are not pigeons that can be so easily deceived by AA's bait and switch tactics.

Actually Pennywise, Stanton Peele addressed that theory here

http://www.peele.net/faq/indians.html

and here.

http://www.peele.net/lib/atlcgene.html

It very well could have more to do with cultural expectations than anything else. I know early in my drinking years before I developed a problem, my mood and surroundings effected whether I would get sick or not more than anything.

because they became irresponsible every time they drank. They had/have friends who drink but they don't respond the same way as Penny, ben and Ironic do. Yet these three will argue this until their last breath. Guys you can't drink like other people and never will. We are all the same.
Keep it simple......:)

I can drink just fine. I don't know about Penny or Ben, but I am a cheap date. 3 beers and im already a puke risk. So I don't drink much, but when I do I stop and start just fine and appropriately.

I did a lot of drugs for a lot of years recreationally. My problem was heroin/oxy, not alcohol. I don't understand the appeal of alcohol, its yucky. Possibly since I am so small (5' 98 lbs) I just don't hold it well. Never have. I always get sick before I even feel "good" from alcohol lol I just get the spins.

If alcoholics metabolized ethol alcohol "differently" than non-alcoholics, it would be an easy experiment to prove or disprove. Has any study been done to measure this theory?

This post is somewhat self-aggrandizing. Does opposing AA, exposing the myriad flaws and nonsenses in the 12-step programme, and objecting to it being allowed to masquerade as any kind of legitimate treatment for addiction, really amount to “hate speech” in the real world? I think the term is more about attacks on and abuse of individuals and groups based solely on their race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Therefore, TraceLin threatening to rape me and calling me a “little whore” on these pages because I'm female might well count as “hate speech”, and he was subsequently banned . However, arguing with the ideas of the 12-step faithful really is not the same thing, however noble you might consider your “counter-speech” to be.

I don’t personally hate anyone in AA, btw, or anyone who thinks AA is a good thing. I might personally think they are deluded, but they are entitled to their opinions (and I'm entitled to argue with them). What I do hate is an organization that will continue to promote its own religious program and agenda at the expense of genuine people who need real help with a serious problem, and the fact that it is so hugely dishonest about its effectiveness and success rates. What I hate even more is rehab centres making massive profits out of the misery and desperation of others, and playing with people’s very lives by cynically selling an irrelevant, ineffective, and often hugely counter-productive religious program instead of addressing the issue of addiction in any proper way.

I’m allowed to hate that fact. And it doesn’t count as “hate speech”.