I need some help with an AA quiz

btnben's picture
Submitted by btnben on Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:49

I have to give a little talk to a group of people who know nothing about AA except what the general public tend to believe. These people all work in the area of social housing from various organisations over 3 counties. They all have long term experience of substance abuse as it is probably one of the major causes of homelessness.

A 20 minute talk is limited in how much you can get over and how much people really take in, so I thought I'd devise a quiz for them to take away and complete at their leisure. If you find something out yourself it is many more time liable to stick in your mind than if someone tells you something.

I've done this little quiz as 12 question (I wonder why...lol), each one having a link to a part of the Orange Papers where the answer can be found. On it's own the Orange Papers are a bit daunting, but if you are directed to the right area to answer a specific question, it might make people read them more. I've done 7 questions, but would be interested if anyone else had any input. This will be given to people on a CD that I'm preparing (Along with the Penn & Teller 12 step show and the South Park Bloody Mary episode). Laughter is always a good way to get a point across. Please remember, these questions are aimed at outsiders to AA with the aim of getting the truth out there.

The questions so far :-

!. What was the name of the Fundamental Christian group that was the precursor of AA? Also, what was the name of its Nazi sympathising leader and what did the group change its name to in 1940?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-rroot090.html

2. Everyone’s heard of “The 12 Steps”, many may have seen them written out, but what are they really?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-snake_oil.html

3. Does AA have any secrets that they don’t like getting out?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-secrets.html

4. Does membership of 12 step programs affect the suicide rate of substance abusers?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-statistics.html

5. Does AA always tell the truth about itself?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-aalies.html

6. How does someone like Bill Wilson (AA co-founder), who never worked for more than a few months in his whole life, leave an estate worth millions of dollars?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-aacoa.html

7. The AA steps rely on members having a relationship with a "Higher Power", which they call God in their steps. However, AA say your Higher Power can be anything (a bedpan, a teacup, a doorknob, a stone, a teddy bear, a mountain, a motorcycle). How does this sit with standard religious teaching?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-heresy.html

8. Can you spot a Cult? Try this test - one of the most comprehensive available. Try it with the cult of your choice and see how AA fares in comparison.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html

9.
10.
11.
12. What alternative methods of support in recovery do you know about?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-alt_list.html

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Sorry about the formatting - copied from a Word document.

Comments

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:19

It teaches quite a lot about the history of AA.

ACROSS
1. Bill W died because of this and pneumonia.
3. Corporation formed in New York to govern AA world wide that has no accountability.
4. The co-founder of AA did this all of the time.
6. Bill was the original _____ Stepper.
9. Bill and Lois lived here in New York and it has become a pilgrimage shrine called ____ Stones.
12. What Bill W. struggled with all of his life.
13. AA usually gives you one of these on your anniversary
14. Step 7 asks for these to be removed.
18. AA is Spiritual, not ____.
21. Where Bill W. and Dr. Bob met.
22. Bill was a member of this group before he helped found AA.
23. What Bill W demanded to have the last days of his life.
24. Last name of Bill’s mistress.
25. Bill used this to talk to Spirits.
26. Bill and Lois did this in the spook room.
27. Deleriant used where Wilson demanded to see God.
DOWN
2. What AA members are supposed to be always looking for.
3. Bill claimed he didn’t do this.
5. What AA members aren’t supposed to have for the first year of sobriety.
7. Name of center that houses the three AA corporations.
8. Bill W. was suspended from Norwich University because of this.
9. Name of the room at Stepping Stones where Bill and Lois tried to talk to spirits.
10. You do this on your knees.
11. Corporation formed to govern AA that has no accountability in what AA does.
15. Bill usually had one of these in his hand.
16. Name of the 15th century monk that Bill Wilson said was helping him.
17. Bill gave 10% of this in his will to his mistress.
19. Chemical way Bill W. tried to find Spirituality.
20. Bill demanded to see this person just before he quit drinking.
23. Lois’s married last name.
24. The color of Bill’s light experience.

Download PDF's Here;

Puzzle: http://stinkin-thinkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BW-Spirituality-Tr...
Answer Sheet: http://stinkin-thinkin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/BW-Spirituality-An...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:25

Good stuff, JR. No AA quiz could be complete without paying homage to Boniface. Another question might be "what classic child's toy did dr. Bob modify to beat his kids?"

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:31

They do make nice flyers to leave at Alano clubhouses and AA meeting places. Don't forget Al-Anon also!

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 07:31

But I'm trying to keep it as relevant as possible. Dr Bob's weird little ways are being saved for round two of the quiz...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

msafrany

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:16

My question would be: How many diseases do the 12 steps treat?
Can you name 10 diseases? Can you name 20?

mfc66uk

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:58

Which of the following are suitable higher powers for the recovering alcoholic?
A bedpan, a teacup, a doorknob, a stone, a teddy bear, a mountain, a motorcycle, or "Good Orderly Direction"
Because you are powerless you need a higher power to pray to otherwise other members of AA will accuse you of not taking your recovery seriously .

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-heresy.html

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:03

The majority of the people there will be from C of E Housing Associations. Won't do any harm highlighting a bit of heresy...lol. Thanks for the link too. That's no & sorted.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:13

door knob

The common example used in Alcoholic Anonymous meetings to describe what you can pick to be your Higher Power.

"Alcoholics Anonymous is spiritual, not religious. You can pick anything you want to be your higher power, even a door knob."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=door+knob

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

flannigan

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:27

btnbn-
Rather than rediculing AA (which is easy to do), why not tell these people who have little knowledge of it, that the bottom line is that AA does not work; AA is no more effective than no treatment at all and very often has harmful side effects. Faith-healing and superstition is not an appropriate means to overcome addiction. This is 2012, not the Middle Ages. Alcoholism (however one defines that term) should be treated by medical professionals, not a G.roup O.f D.runks.

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:29

are authoritatively counseled to stop taking all medication including insulin, birth control pills, and high blood pressure meds, as counseled by persons with NO medical training whatsoever.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:44

I don't think any, De. Those wouldn't be the type of medications anyone in recovery would care about. SMART and AA's position on meds are very clear.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:53

First off, SMART has never had any reports of members telling other members to go off prescribed medication and AA has multiple reports of it. De facto is what actually happens, De jure is what is written or said. In AA everything is a "suggestion" and you can take what you want and leave the rest, so it doesn't mater what AA propaganda says. SMART does not put the members in the group in charge of each other like AA does, so that won't happen. You can't compare SMART with AA, SMART isn't a cult that performs weird rituals in church basements and AA is.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

gigi

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:42

This is an important point to make, I think. What actually happens during AA meetings and between sponsors and sponcees often has nothing to do with AA's official stance on anything. People need to be made aware that there is no standard of care or accountability.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 14:51

It doesn't matter. The position is the position, and anything else is a personal opinion.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 09:56

" (Incidentally - and perhaps not totally surprisingly – the ex-ring leader of this group Mike Q(uinones)(now deceased) was a sponsee of Clancy I as is Wayne P of the Road to Recovery (Plymouth). Now it would be unreasonable to blame the sponsor for the misdeeds of their sponsees but one does have to ask what kind of “guidance” was (is) being offered in these cases; let's hope it's not “direction” and, moreover, doesn't involve 'meds'; Clancy is an exponent of the anti-prescribed medication perspective!)."

Friend of yours Clara?

http://www.aacultwatch.co.uk/2012/01/minority-report-continued3.html

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

mfc66uk

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:13

I just read that link and it brought a lot back. Some people are accepting that many of those meetings were way over the top. They have influenced many and most of the old timers in my area would have gone through those groups which is why they have such crazy values. The meds thing was a real dangerous issue here and I saw the results.The sponsors demanded you phoned early in the morning etc. I don't think much of AA in general but I did go to some friendly small meetings outside cities in which people were supporting each other. I don't think they went to that many meetings and so their life did not revolve around AA in the way that many city members do.I guess they lived less stressful lives.
I have never met such a group of self obsessed, judgmental, ignorant idiots as joys. AA always has some crank sharing, but that lot were nuts yet they considered themselves to be elite. The neighbours of St Lukes church and the vicar were less impressed by this weekly assembly of crap heads lowering the tone of the area and banned them.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:21

We've got a major infiltration of them down here in Plymouth going under the name of Roads to Recovery. Wayne the impregnator (goes one step further and gets his sponcees pregnant) is a 1st generation sponcee of Clancy. How that works I just don't know.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

mfc66uk

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:58

I saw that bit as well. these meetings often seem to have links to others. There are some in the South east that are similar. i suppose some of the more fanatical members move at set up wherever they are.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:22

Perhaps not that you have experienced Clara. Until after I started researching AA I had never seen any literature about AA's stance on meds. I didn't get memo as a newcomer on AA's policy either. It is not made very clear in every area or in every meeting.

On the flipside, I've been to meetings when the topic was specifically about medications and shares were related to what kind of meds were OK and were not OK to take. These were all comments by non professionals. If it was clear and a precise rule was in place it would not to be allowed discussed. Not one person said, "Outside Issue" either.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 14:57

My sponsor gave me a BB and a copy of Living Sober. In LS, on page 88, is AA's position on meds. We've discussed them, too, as people often will shop a doctor for meds, especially if you have an NA coming in to AA. If you are taking Valium to detox, people understand that. If you are taking it a year later, that's substituting and you might want to look at that. I think it was you, but I could be wrong, that asked if you saved up your meds for a feel good time later, that wouldn't be appropriate in any recovery progam. Perhaps that is what you were discussing in the meeting and it absolutely would have been appropriate.

I am sorry you didn't know. LS was published in 1975. These materials have all been here.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:04

The problem is that sponsors (Clancy is top dog in this) are telling people to stop taking medication for mental illnesses like depression and schizophrenia. This is causing major problems, including many documented cases of suicide. Because AA has no monitoring and automatically defaults to denial when queried, nothing is being done to change the situation. Saying "It doesn't happen in my group" or "Well, I've never seen that" is meaningless. It is happening - to say it isn't is denial.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:05

Who has to deny a published policy from over 30 years ago?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:09

There is a survey somewhere which shows one in six AA sponsors advise people not to take meds. Same odds a Russian roulette. AA's position in LS is irrelevant if it's not policed. Everyone simply ignores it and does their own thing.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 12:42

There appears to be a double standard here on OPF. On the one hand you find it reprehensible that someone in AA would recommend to vulnerable members of the fellowship that they quit taking prescription medications, and on the other hand you don't hesitate for a second to ridicule someone for "missing their meds" or being on "head meds".

High road, meet low road.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

flannigan

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:02

Clara-
What exactly is AA's position on MD prescribed medications? And how would one know this if "nobody speaks for AA"?

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 14:59

Because AA itself took the position. It isn't Clara telling you her opinion. In Living Sober, on page 88, is the AA position of prescribed meds.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:06

It was conference approved in 1975 and is published by AAWS It also isn't main stream AA literature.

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Sober-Anonymous/dp/0916856046/ref=sr_1_1?ie...

Paperback: 87 pages
Publisher: AA World Services; 1 edition (February 10, 2002)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0916856046
ISBN-13: 978-0916856045

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:59

It certainly isn't main stream literature. I never heard it spoken about in meetings, etc.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:20

Yes, page 88. In an appendix on the very last page of the book. Probably most people get bored before they reach that page. But it does at least admit to the anti-med stance and it's disastrous results. That reminds me that i have something on the Living Sober Book that is hilarious. I'll post it sometime just for you, Clara. BTW, what does the Midtown group say about meds these days, Clara?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:34

88 page is a large book to you? Please.... that is just an excuse. I was to read a chapter of it everyday, which ended up being a 2 pages each. It also addresses that you don't have to go to meetings for the rest of your life unless you want to...

I have no opinions on the Midtown group, Cause. I had never heard of it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:44

Avatar? Thank you, it was making me sick. So at what point are the newcomers given "Living Sober" and read it? Does AA "require" that the book be read before Sponsoring anyone? I know, AA doesn't "require" anything, so when does AA "suggest" that Sponsors read "Sober Living." Oh it doesn't? Don't tell me I know, they do it in YOUR group.

Your Stories are unraveling...............

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:52

It's a memorial to my dog. We had spent a great day at the beach a block from the house when that was taken.

Well, JR, I would imagine that most people read LS as newcomers, so by the time they get around to sponoring, yes, they've read it. My sponsor gave me the materials as a gift. When I got to MB, our group gave them out to newcomers. I don't think I know anyone that hasn't read it.

An excellent source on sponsorship is 12 Step Sponsorship - How it works by Hamilton B. It's through Hazelden Press.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:51

I never said it was large, Clara. I said it was boring. There's a difference you know. BTW, thanks for changing your avatar. Your dog's much prettier than Clancy. RIP, Spike. Dogs are great.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:53

He was a doll. Thank you.

I found it nice to read at night. I guess hat bores one can inspire another.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:51

None of my sponsors ever gave me a copy of Living Sober. I didn't hear about the book the entire time I attended meetings.

There are people that are getting sick and dying regardless of AA's "policy". That's because it's hidden in copies of Living Sober and the policy is not enforced. There aren't even attempst at enforcing it, and it is being denied.

There are still old-timer members, gurus, speaking on behalf of AA (whether they are supposed to or not), and that is a big problem. If AA was any kind of reputable company they would stop this from happening and actually forbid members from speaking about it. Instead they sit back and deny it happens and only claim they aren't responsible. As a result, people still lecture about it and others get sick and die.......I'm appalled that people stick up for this kind of crap.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:57

I think the phrase was "mood altering" as I have heard certain oldtimers say... But I think there is a context to keep it in. I know people that think they are sober because they don't drink, yet they traded off for pot. That isn't really sobriety, IMO. The person facing readdiction by substituting benzos could be an issue, too, if they are abusing them. But I have never heard anyone being told to get off birth control, insulin, heart meds, blood pressure meds... That's just sillly talk.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:06

It's really not silly--it's dangerous. And many steppers consider meds for depression, anxiety, bi-polar to be mood altering drugs.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:14

Well, what can I say other than we didn't. Those were for medical conditions, not saving up the benzos for a rainy day to use recreationay. Even the pamphlet that was offered up (which I also cannot print) had but one story were group members were critical. Most of the stories were supportive.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:22

(Is that a photo of Spike?)

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:28

yes, it is!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:32

I believe that LSD which Bill W was experimenting with is considered "mood altering."

Man, your cult of preference sure has some weird problems.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:34

I prefer "mood improving"...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 13:20

The only reason LSD is acceptable in AA is because Bill Wilson would have lost his sober time if it wasn't. If Bill had not tripped, I guarantee LSD would not be OK in AA. Anyone should be able to see through that loophole.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 13:32

If you found out Bill Wilson smoked weed and popped Valium, you would accordingly change your opinion about good sobriety, correct?

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

flannigan

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:09

I am familiar with AAWS, GSB, Grapevine magazine, groups, intergroups, districts, etc but where does this "AA position" come from? Who or what speaks for AA?

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:35

Clancy. While not directly affiliated with AANY, Clancy pretty much sets policy. Not much goes on in AA without Clancy's approval. He has placed lieutenants in the major groups of almost every large city. He dictates policy through them.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 11:10

and start promoting male/female sponsor/sponcee relations do you?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:00

I think people give him more credit than he deserves. I tend to doubt this highly.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

flannigan

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:51

Some guy named Clancy actually dictates "AA policy"? If true, this is stunning.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 13:20

It is pretty crazy. The major financial decisions come from AANY. But unofficial, informal mandates such as what medications one can take usually come from Clancy and are relayed throughout he fellowship down the sponsorship chain.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

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