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PLease feel free to come over and let her have it.
It is woman like her who keep AA in the DARK AGES of the 1950's
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:23
You should be proud!
Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymouswww.nadaytona.org
Persephone In Exile
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:40
Yes, that pressure is very, very strong.
Good for you, though!
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:42
It may not be "AA in its essential form", but I always hear it coming from members of AA/NA. Heard it, I should say. And boy, have I heard it a LOT.
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 15:04
Interesting that you would say that because I DID go to the grocer with people because they didn't trust themselves. I have already posted that.
Of course you have to learn to live sober. That was Clancy's whole thing. He couldn't deal with himself emotionally and he always relapsed. Who says that you have to give up all of those thing? I did all of that in recovery. And if you aren't already in a relationship when you start, why rush to get into one? There are newcomers that are still looking to be "rescued." Again, it isn't carved in stone and not even in any of the AA literature. But it isn't an unsound bit of advice. And of course you can have holiday parties and family events. It's all about emotional fitness.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 15:18
Ugga Bugga Boo.... Clara, I'm asking you please not to tell me what Clancy does or doesn't do and use it as an example of right or wrong. I don't care to hear it, so I'm asking nice :=) Just for when you post directly to me. Deal?
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 15:56
That's a deal, Avo. I refrain from discussing him at first until I saw those same behaviors popping out here in these "sober" people. He also doesn't believe in God but has used this program for 53 years to stay sober.
A deal is a deal, Avo.
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 18:16
Thanks Clara. I'm not asking because I want to minimize your relationship with him. I would just rather hear what you are personally thinking or feeling.
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 13:11
30 years from now AA will still be there for people who like it. Nothing you guys are doing here is gonna change that. All your time and energy is being wasted. 10 people bitching on the OP will not accomplish anything.
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 13:22
30 years from now AA will most likely exist. But it will be different from what it is today. There will be safeguards put into place and there will be no mandating exclusively to 12 step meetings. Hardly a waste of time to speed up. For the minors the change cant come soon enough!
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 14:45
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 14:33
Ten bloggers would not generate 2.5 million hits. Many people are watching and seeing the tactics of the prospect hunters with the help of the serene, honest, humble trolls of Alcoholics Anonymous.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
And......ditto JR Harris.
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:40
The Shadow knows!
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:56
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 14:44
Well jonn, you could be wrong about there being only 10 anti-AA's and all of us only posting here at the OPF. Lol. From what I've noiticed, you have a tendency only to grasp what is right in front of you. You aren't looking at the big picture. Just my observation.
I actually think that that unless AA makes some radical changes, then it will be microscopic in comparison to what it is today. People aren't going to keep tolerating the bill-shit. It just doesn't produce enough of the positive results that are possible.
You mentioned my time and energy. Believe it or not it's not all about exposing the awful AA religion. I've also personally gained quite a bit from blogging here and other websites:
Educating myself about the history. Learning other ways to maintain sobriety. Meeting new people. Getting deprogrammed. Helping others do the seem.
Actually, all that I've learned has helped me save my life. At least the life I wanted to live. I'm happier and healthier. My self-esteem and confidence is growing and I'm maintaining a drug free life.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 09:06
@JonniJoy--No, but it's a great place to vent. I find it, personally, pointless at this point to do much online with this matter, not that I don't like to. I'd rather that people who are in the position I was in be able to get some actual help. Real help that doesn't include traumatizing and/or killing people. Help that doesn't include demoralizing them and castigating them for wrongs they perhaps haven't done. I don't think that's so very much to ask, do you?
Actually, the sort of things I want to happen would leave AA pretty much alone.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:49
Christians worried about harms done in AA? I guess you have never read the bible. Heres a good question 'Why does god massacre millions of people? http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god16.htm Does anyone really want to debate what has been worse for humanity God or AA?? lol Im also positive that there have been more rapes, fraud, embezzlement, murder, bigamy, child molestations all behind the doors of Christian congregations than anywhere else in the USA. Shit Christian churches even allow AA just so they can make a couple extra bucks.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:03
2.5million hits but only 10 bloggers, that alone should tell you something. Jr. Harris you need to get off your fat lazy ass and look for a new mate. Get over it for gods sake. Your behavior and obsessive postings paint a pretty clear picture of what a complete self centered jerk you are. Its no wonder your old lady bailed on you for a stepper. Any body to her would have been an improvement over you, even the pizza guy.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:26
Another asshole, here to attack the character of someone else. As if that makes any of your points relevant.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 09:49
We all use you for ours...lol!!!
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:17
Jeez, Jonnijoy sounds exactly like danny bennison. He says he's JCal from ST, but I don't remember JCal sounding like that. I know he defended AA once saying that in his opinion it wasn't unsafe, but never did he act like danny, even during that disagreement. JCal usually had some really interesting things to say and was a good contributor to the site.
Troll free AA critical forumhttp://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:18
So that's the story? His wife left him for an AA? It is interesting how those we involve ourselves with as drunks might not be who we want when we sober up.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:04
It's also interesting how often AA's try to break up marriages. Dr. Bob was the first to do something like that. With his own daughter! Yes, she was in love with a man that wasn't AA and Dr. Bob forced a break-up between the two and arranged a relationship for her with an AA of his choice. That didn't work out, he went drinking..and she eventually went back to her real love.
I witnessed many sessions when an AA drug counselor actually "forced" the topic of divorce on one of her clients. We were in group therapy together. It was sad/confusing stuff. Ya never know who you are getting as a sponsor or who you are sitting next to in meetings. Ick! At least with the counselor the client knew the name of the counselor and was able to file a complaint. This was inappropriate and she was held accountable. In AA you can't do that. If someone is trying to sway or brainwashing you, control you..yeah, you can fire them if you have your mind back and some back bone to realize what is happening. If not you're shit out of luck and suffer the consequences. And the sponsor can just move on to the next person, and the next, and the next.
It's fascinating to find out the real history about the AA co-founders.
Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:19
It's been my experience in AA that when people sober up, they realize that who they married as a drunk might not be who they want as a sober person. I have also seen where AA has strengthen marriages and that sobriety has saved the marriage. My husband is a case in point. His first marriage might have been saved had he gotten help sooner.
Dr. Bob wouldn't be the first father that thought he knew better about his daughter's choices in beaus. My own father did the same thing.
Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:32
children using a "modified" classic paddle ball toy to inflict the most pain? Good example to use. He was a fraud and child beater.
Children of the Healer: The Story of Dr.Bob's Kids
Paperback: 176 pages
Publisher: Hazelden (March 1994)
Thu, 03/22/2012 - 11:59
I think people used different tactics then than they do now. I got smacked by a board just like that in the 8th grade by a teacher, and I didn't become a prfessional whiner.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 18:36
No, that's not true Clara. It's just another pathetic baseless attack.
Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:23
That isn't the question or the debate. At least not for me. I'm not here to defend Christianity and I don't feel the need to. Who was it that said AA was better or worse then Christianity anyway?
I don't believe God keeps me sober. I do it on my own. I also don't think that God massacred millions of people. It's people that do that to one another. Some do it in the name of God, or at least claim this. Never said I agreed with that either.
God doesn't heal amputees because I don't think that God heals anyone. At least on request.
jonn you said:
"Im also positive that there have been more rapes, fraud, embezzlement, murder, bigamy, child molestations all behind the doors of Christian congregations than anywhere else in the USA."
Christianity is also 10 million times larger then the AA religion and has been around thousands of years longer.
Why are you bothering to compare the two?
What I do know is that AA can be unsafe and it doesn't matter that other religions are worse or better. Right or wrong shouldn't be be determined based upon comparison. Since AA has problems with criminal activity and different abuse issues, they should change and help make it safer. They should also try being honest for once about what the organization is. This discussion and debate is why I'm here. I wanted to get sober and live a substance free lifestyle - not get my beliefs messed with to the point of severe depression.
I'd vote for changes in the Catholic Church too, or any Church that has issues with crime. I don't support any abuse anywhere and would never compare one thing, just to make another negativity seem better. It's a cop out. I'm thankful that issues in the Church is becoming public knowledge and awareness has been made.