The Daily Bitch 13th March 2012

Humanspirit suggested that we have "What are the principles mentioned in step 12 and tradition 12" as a daily topic. I thought that this would bring a deafening silence from the pro- group (it usually does), but Clara, in her innocence, walked straight in declaring that the steps and the traditions are the principles...lol (another reason why I don't think Clara is Marietta. M would never have fallen for that one...lol)

The truth is that the steps have no principles in them. Plenty of cult practices, but no principles. The traditions are rather irrelevant as far as the steps are concerned. They weren't in existence when the steps were "passed down from on high"...lol.

I'm no expert on the 12&12 (weak stomach...lol). Does anyone know if it throws any more light on the principles in the 12 steps?

Just for a bit of fun - someone's first share when they are forced to go to AA but don't have a drinking problem. The punch line at the end is just so true....lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCPUDjBO0KU

Comments

I think it is important that the message that it is possible to turn your life around if you are prepared to work at it and although there will be some struggles you can find support in many places other than a bottle or an old book is put out.The spiritual awakening part has no relevance to me but others may feel that God has helped them and if that is the case then they should point out that they have used a religeous or spiritual solution rather than a medical or modern method and be upfront about it so that the individual suffering can decide whether they will find support that is appropriate for them from a given solution.

The traditions were obviously written with a bit more thought! Most of the trolls on here break them regularly by getting involved it outside issues etc. this is just the same as the meetings where the crazy old steps are generally discussed far more than the traditions. I assumed members would take the traditions seriously but many do not and annonimity is often broken when they feel like it. People are not chucked out for serious breaches of the traditions. For instance, the person who broke the annonimity of a british comedian in the press about 10 years ago is still in the rooms giving out advice and yet many old timers know what he did- he ended up in the papers too. I was at the meeting when News of the World photographers burst in to photograph the main person. Imagine the effect that would have had on a newcomer at their first meeting who really needed some help. AA members spend so much time talking about recovery that annonimity goes out the window. They are obsessed by who is working the programme properly and who is relapsing. Try sitting in the coffee bars in the Kings road at the weekend where so many meet if you want to hear a load of gossip. Picassos or Mona Lisa were the main ones. No tradition 12 there!

Clara's picture

The 12/12 was written a number of years after the BB and reflect growth within the organization and how they sought to deal with the changing that a growing movement inevitably face.

I don't like that people break anonymity, but isn't News of the World that cheesy British paper that claims Hillary Clinton had an alien baby? Consider the source. You can't imagine that they would have any respect, but remember, too that these apply to AA members, not the world at large. If I am sitting at a table with friends and we are talking about some AA thing, that is our business and our OWN anonymity. Nothing says that we cannot do it. And if a person is breaking his own anonymity in the press, then he is fair game for discussion if anyone wants to use him as an example.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Necromancy (channeling with the dead) and expands on the original cult manual normally referred to as the "Big Book." Both manuals are nothing more than a "Book of Shadows" containing the spells of the covens that perform weird rituals in residential church basements under the veil of "Anonymity." I can see why you would want to remain anonymous Clara, it allows you to move around and become friends with non-cult members in the hopes of getting them to join the cult.

"A Book of Shadows is a book containing religious texts and instructions for magical rituals found within the Neopagan religion of Wicca. Originating within the Gardnerian tradition of the Craft, the first Book of Shadows was created by the pioneering Wiccan Gerald Gardner sometime in the late 1940s or early 1950s, and which he utilised first in his Bricket Wood coven and then in other covens which he founded in following decades. The concept of the Book of Shadows was then adopted by other Wiccan traditions, such as Alexandrianism and Mohsianism, and with the rise of books teaching people how to begin following Wicca in the 1970s onward, the idea of the Book of Shadows was then further propagated amongst solitary practitioners unconnected to earlier traditions."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_shadows

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

btnben's picture

Wrong again Clara - it was the Weekly World News - American publication. News of the World doesn't exist any more. And how can you diss the Weekly World News. One of their lead stories this week is "How to sell your soul to the devil" & "Newt Gingrich falls into wormhole"...lol

http://weeklyworldnews.com/

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Then you should go back to the post I was quoting. It doesn't say Weekly World News.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

What post you were quoting? There's only what you wrote stating it was the News of the World.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

Again. Standard stepper trick. Can you please answer the original question? What's the problem?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Great to see the former editor of the news of the world was arrested for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice a couple of hours after I posted this. It was a very unpleasant right wing paper that was published on a Sunday by Rupert Murdoch. Most of its content in later years was dragging up dirt on celebs etc. There is a sister publication called the Sun which is equally sleazy and further arrests may follow which will be of interest to the readers of this blog. It is not my place or wish to break somebody's annonimity and sink to the level of these papers and the AA members who provided the info,but I suspect somebody I remember from the rooms may be wishing for divine intervention this evening.

In Sunrise Park Holly Hill Florida, there are NA Meetings that read the steps/traditions every time stating that they will not be involved in controversy. Yet they are creating controversy by having meetings in the park knowing the citizens have been complaining and there have been numerous incidents involving both Daytona AA and Daytona NA that are very controversial. The hypocrisy is incredible.

These groups do not have total support from the other groups though that actually want to follow the steps and traditions. Yet even though it has had a negative impact on both Daytona AA and Daytona NA Groups and has impacted AA and NA as a whole, they just do not care at all.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

It's public use land and they have as much of a right to be there as anyone else, Anti. You are bringing it to their door. Inviting controversy differs from groveling, and no one has to do that, including AAs. Where in the traditions does it say that you cannot defend yourself or your own rights? They have the right to assemble there via the Constitution, and if any other group were doing it, you probably wouldn't object. They also don't have to have total support from other groups.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

They do not pay for or "reserve" the pavilion they have taken over, even though they have been told to do so. They smoke cigarettes in the parks, even though there are ordinances against it. They have bullied and harassed the actual TAX PAYING members of the community when this is brought up.

It's almost as ridiculous as a female AA member having a male Sponsor and trying to "pretend" that there is nothing wrong with that and making up some fairy tale Sponsorship story where anything of a sexual nature is taken up with the Sponsors wife.

What does the Guru Clancy state on these actions? How much does it cost you to call him per minute to ask?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

I never said I ever said anything of a sexual nature with anyone, JR. Your wife divorced the right guy. Why not just move on?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

4.) Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5.) Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Could you please go back to your coven and send someone that knows about AA? You obviously don't. Maybe you should go to "Rehab' to learn the ritual chanting and praying better. So how many times did Clancy go to "Rehab" and how much did it cost him to learn the "free" program of AA?

(Careful prospect hunter, you may want to use better camouflage, you are spooking your prey.)

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

We've been through this, JR. Your obsession with the sexual habits of others isn't necessary, but it also isn't necessary in AA. Read the step.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Clara, you are missing the point. I believe that the works of Bill Wilson and especially the scripture of the "Big Book" and the "12&12" are the devils work. While I do believe that many of the people caught up in the cult do not realize the heresy of the adulterous con man Bill Wilson and are just following the path of least resistance, you have been on this site long enough to know better. Quit prospect hunting and trying to push that filth on people.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

avogadno's picture

That's a hit below the belt if I ever saw one. Nice work Clara. I suppose that your getting hot under the collar for having to go that low.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

btnben's picture

Not got your serenity bra on today Clara?...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Ironic's picture

Who expected anything less from Clarietta??

Remember guys, their job is to take OUR inventories.

becket's picture

"serenity bra" is an oxymoron.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

It absolutely is not. You are not keeping up with his posts about me, Avo, and his almost sexual obsession with me and that my sponsor is male. Or his accuations that I have secret online activities that I keep from my husband. Or posting on the board that I have accounts I don't have or posting what he says in my "real name." I am also not hot under the collar. I am glad that she felt she could leave. Apparently his personality isn't limited to an online one. Some of these people you would never think were like this if you knew them personally until something major happens to disclose it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

Clara, you are probably right. I think you can likely say that about anyone's posts. I don't think anyone can claim that they haven't missed anything.

If I miss a comment directed to me, it isn't intentional. Well, from you and most of the others anyway. Some peoples posts I don't bother reading because of the nature. Trisha for example.

Like right now you said "it absolutely is not". But I don't know what you mean. Sorry. And I don't know who "his sexual obsession with me" refers to. Not exactly. I certainly don't know what it has to do with me. I haven't made a comment about your sexuality or your sponsor or your husband. Just to be clear.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

avogadno's picture

I posted about a comment that you made to Ben. One that I thought was a "low blow". Yes, I stand by that statement. In the end, you are right though. I mean about my not knowing all of the conversation between the two of you (not that his wife divorcing him was "right").

It's the same thing that you do though, I hope you can see that now. Our dealings with Trish/Danny/Cuggles/Quagmire/Perplexity/Calinda, etc. have been going for a long time and have a lot of history. You made some comments as to how we were wrong about treating him without knowing the nature behind the history of what he has said and done in the past. Even current, because I'm sure you have missed some posts too. He says shit to me that is uncalled for even now. Making stuff up, etc.

If you don't mind me saying so. Maybe you shouldn't bring up anything personal about yourself if you don't want someone commenting on it. Also, maybe you and Ben should stop conversing all together. It appears that the dialougue will never stop and noboby but yourselves will know how deep the insults go. You both make claim of it and I'm not going to read every word to make deteminations about my opinion on the matter. No one cares what I think anyway, lol....Just my opinion anyway.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

I think you are correct about that, but I never suspected that someone would take the information as this person did and behave as he has. Some people are just sick, and I forgot that. As for Ben, I think he just revels in being some variation of Simon Cowell. It's harmless, and I don't really care that someone picks out my typos. But it does point out that what one accepts out of others freely is dumped on ad nauseam for someone else, and that is wrong.

I don't know who these people are or their histories, but I see behavior out of regulars that tends to support sport more than this man was ever any real nut. Otherwise, why the "Danny? Danny" Where are you?' types of posts? "Let's tell Danny jokes." I mean, just let it go. If there isn't a topic for day, it reverts back to Danny and what he's doing or something he said. Even Ben admitted that he missed Marietta and then she showed up in some reincarnation. It's just a game the regulars play.

In order to consolidate, I'll post this here. I just got off the phone with AA in Holly Hill, Florida, and there is one AA meeting that takes place in the park at 9:00 on Sundays. It's been there for years and is a registered AA meeting. It is on their website. He couldn't answer as to if they make a donation to the park or if they use a pavillion (I guess there are a few) and took my name and number to call me back with GSR information, if he can find it. He agreed that there had been issues with NA meetings that take place, and that AA got lumped in there. I have noticed that the site cited is NAdaytona, and I think NA is a different ball of wax altogehter. I don't know this for a fact yet, but he understood the problem meetings took place at later times. Perhaps an inclusion to policy changes could be no group events after a certain time. And, too, this takes enforcement. Our parks in Surfside had to do this, too, but it had to do with kids congregating to ride skateboards, to smoke and to drink (all of which are now against ordinances) But that also means that some older couple with a picnic basket can bring a bottle of wine. There will be trades and compromises.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara, you are correct that Sunrise Group AA meetings are on Sunday morning. It is quite common that the local AA office will say it really is an NA problem, and they just got dragged into it. I assure you Clara with 100% certainty, that AA Sunrise Group has been a big problem on Sunday mornings. In fact they are the ones that try and tell people they need to leave a pavilion that they prefer. They even created problems and harassed locals on Christmas Day! AAWS has spoke to the GSR's of the area to share their experiences with this situation.

At first AA left and had there Sunday morning meeting elsewhere. The community was quite appreciative. A long time AA member stated that is was not uncommon that people wore out their welcome and they politely say thank you and move on. I had a lot of respect for that myself. The person seem to be true to the traditions of AA, and really is a wonderful guy from what I can tell.

But then some hardcore, stubborn members decided to come back to the park, and still refuse to pay rent. They tried to take over the main pavilion again ! Their arrogance is unbelievable. They have cussed out locals, been very hostile etc. So AA is very much part of the problem. Even though the group has been reduced to an extent because of the controversy, there remains enough to give locals grief.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

I'm on it, Anti. It is the first time that I have heard of someone saying that it is not "uncommon" to wear out their welcome, but I didn't belong to groups like that. We were welcome tenants in our clubs and the churches where we held meetings.

Now, if they paid for the pavillion, is there an objection to that? Does this particular group use the space for hours to justify paying 25.00 for three hours use? If they put out blankets beachstyle and had their meeting, would there be oppoisiton to that?

This man did say that the groups responsible for mayhem were NA groups that had meetings at later times, some even in the evenings. I am solely interested in the one AA meeting.

Also, per the site you often cite, it seems there there are other issues - gay cruising in bathrooms and the locations is on a pick up site, much like the woods outside DC were. What kind of area is this? Aren't the police interested in that? Why is this area attractive for that?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara, I am sure you are aware that meetings are asked to leave churches and others places for different reasons. Sometimes it is because of behavior, insurance issues, litter etc. It is my understanding that when this comes up that, AA says thanks, and moves on, avoiding ill feelings or controversy. I think this has actually worked out quite well for both AA and NA in the past, and is why problems people have had with groups stays under the radar. AA/NA moves on quietly not wanting to bring negative attention to themselves.

But it seems there are a growing number of 12 steppers who are not following the traditions, thus dragging tha AA and NA name into public controversy. Holly Hill AA/NA is a perfect example. Had they honored their traditions, and honored the wishes of the community, it would of ended there, period.

Now it has literally become a worldwide story that is an ongoing problem, that has been in the newspapers, radio stations and blogs. They still do not care even when it is impacting both NA and AA as a whole.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

JR Harris's picture

The same thing happened in Nutley, NJ. The apologetic "fake" (i.e. Plastic) AA members were quick to try and point out that it wasn't their cult that was causing the problems. I see the same thing happening with the Holly Hill fiasco.

AA and NA are the same, being spawned from the same stock so to speak. Just Like the Midtown Fiasco with Mike Q was spawned from the Sponsorship group of Clancy I and the majority of the Sponsorship groups that Clancy has ties with are the same way and are being reported with even more frequency.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

That was the remark came off to me in your post. Yes, we have moved meetings because the churches were sold, because of changes within the group, because the rental arrangement changed, not everything was onesided on poor performance of AA.

For one reason or another, this groups chooses to stay. I can't answer for that. But if they pay as ANY group hosting any event there should, where does everything stand then? Again, this one group. I am not interested in NA, and I don't lump them together. I know nothing about their fellowship.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Let's say that would be a good start, by paying there way, and not asking people to leave any pavilion when they do not have it rented. There still are litter and behavior issues with AA/NA, and I think you can tell by reading the site that the sole problem is not about money, but adds to the overall multitude of issues.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Then we will work on getting them to pay. 1300. a year. I don't know if this group takes three hours to have a meeting. Ours didn't, and that might give rise to the feeling that the time should be utilized as it is paid for, so I wouldn't be surprised if another group piggybacks.

Do you know if reserved pavillions have RESERVED posted on them anywhere?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Well that is monopolizing the main pavilion every Sunday which prevents others that like to have birthday parties.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

It is a 9:00 meeting, though, on a Sunday. And if parents are having parties, shouldn't they be reserving it and paying the fee, too? I might not be right, but I know we wouldn't be having a party on a Sunday morning. They would simply have to have their party later if the pavillion is rented by ANYone or lease another one. If they pay, they get that space for three hours. They aren't monopolizing. They've paid for the time.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

True, but some people do have parties without renting. This has caused problems too, when another group comes in and has rented it! But when it is first come first serve, it is sad that for so many years no one could use the main pavilion to enjoy on any Sunday morning-going into the afternoon. Because AA invited NA, they used to be back to back going into the afternoon. So you would have families and children being excluded completely, and exposed to hearing the language and the adult stories.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

becket's picture

AntiDenial, first you defend those who would have a Sunday birthday party, and then you turn around and chastise those who would have a Sunday birthday party.

?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Just stating that when people do not rent it can be a problem if they are having a birthday party.
It is still not fair to monopolize the pavilion so no one else can use it.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

I don't know if this is not response to me or not, but if anyone pays to use it, then they get it for three hours. That's just the deal. As long as the same deal applies to everyone, I don't have further opinion on it. I know there isn't a one size fits all solution, but this is the most basic of everything. If AA has to pay for their thee hours, joey's mom and dad do, too. That is how it always should have been, but the policies don't appear to have been written that way.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Agreed.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

Today is today and we are looking for change. But nothing can be put on one that isn't on everyone else. Those parents should have been paying all along, too. In MB, there are notices and times on the pavillions that show when it has been rented. And there have been occasional mistakes where a rented one didn't get the notice. It happened at our workshop final picnic.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

It is hard to separate AA/NA completely as many seem to go to both AA and NA meetings. There has been a lot anger over how both groups have behaved, and continue to. Once locals realized that courts were mandating violent felons to meetings, the concern for children and others at the park became a concern. The meetings take place in earshot and view of the playground and and the walking trails.

Now that AA/NA has become a branch of the judicial system, it has changed the demographic. I do believe children and families should not be put in harms way because of this.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

You have not, Avo. JR's remarks have been creepy to the point of notice of some others, so it isn't just my interpretation. A poster put on the board about his wife, but a pm was mailed to me from a different party why he hones in on AAs, women in particular.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

LOL (not laughing at the content), I don't know what you mean again though. Maybe my fault, just saying.

"You have not, Avo". I have not what?

As to your comment about JR. Just because someone pm'd you that JR does "that", doesn't make it true. Unless it was JR's private therapist or something. I've seen JR speak to AA woman without honing in on them, (as whomever put it) too. I think JR calls it like he sees it, regardless of gender.

Please don't assume that because of a situation you may have heard about his wife, gives a reasoning behind his behavior. It's online psychobabble. I've noticed that JR hones in on men from AA too on occasion. Anyone that trys fucking with him (talking in slogans, quoting the big book). Some of us get more sensitive about it than others. I understand where he is coming from. I understand you too, but it's different. I think that you don't see things that you do as possibly being offensive. But from his pov or others, it can be.

Hearing people quote the bb and listening to being applied to everyone as if it has validity is quite annoying. I've heard it often. AA's often use what is written as gospel and talk as if we are all believers. To me it's just bad literature.

Side note:
As I see it, one big problem is that AA's AND anti AA's make generalizations. I think we are all guilty of it honestly, so please know I'm not picking at you in particular at saying this. Some are more guilty than others. There may be a couple of people that get harsh and the next thing I know I get picked on for it. Something like: "Avo, you people" or even getting singled out when it isn't true. Here's a good example. "Why do all of you on in this forum hate AA members". I've gotten that thrown in my face repeatedly. Sometimes by the same individual. Even after I make a point of saying that I don't hate AA members (at least all), that I have friends that are AA. Even wonderful and sweet people. I still get the same shit though.

I try very hard not to say all of you do that. And I don't hold a grudge against you for something marietta did or that Trisha does. Sometimes I make a generalization about AA's but it is not to single you out or anyone else on this blog. I'm foccussed more on the AA guru's.

I ask you and anyone else that reads this that wants to be considerate. Please don't generalize and don't assume that you know. You would be surprised how much turns out innaccurate.

I'll really try to do the same. I do realize that not all AA's are cut from the same cloth.

BTW, I'm curious Clara. Are you friends with Calinda?

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Avo, you haven't said anything about my sponsor being a male, I meant. You aren't in any of that behavior. I wouldn't have given the PM any credence but for my personal experience with this man. One day, all his posts were directed at me in a personal manner. How someone treats ME is my primary shot. I don't know ANYone on this board, Avo.

Remember too that for me some of the BB does have validity. I think people that like AA and have found value in it are going to feel that was to an extent. You have a different pov, so you don't. And that is fine. I just don't understand faulting someone for not having the same experience. When people tell me I just don't know AA... They are right in a fashion. I don't know AA as they did. But the same can be said of them. If they knew the AA I did, they might have even liked it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Sunrise Park Holly Hill Fl AA/NA meetings. It is controversial because of the poor behavior of the group. People have a right to peaceful assembly. They are not peaceful, refuse to pay rent and run people off. They are not supposed to make waves and create controversy. They are breaking their traditions left and right.

They do not care about the children or the people, only about themselves. They have exhibited narcissistic behavior and certainly have helped give AA and NA a bad name with their selfishness.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

Clara's picture

They don't have to pay rent for an hour, and they don't even have to reserve it as park reservations aren't required for a small group. If you know a meeting takes place there at a regular time, go to the park earlier or later. Why does anyone have to cater to you or anyone else? Talk about being selfish. According the article you regularly post, there are no non-smoking laws regarding open air spaces. It is "hoped" that playgrounds can be designated non-smoking areas, not that they are. If that changes, I am sure this group will go along with it, too.

Are there any updates to this article?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Actually you are wrong Clara. If you want a pavilion at a certain time solely for a meeting or another gathering you are to rent the pavilion. What AA and NA does is tell people they have to leave the pavilion because they are going to have a meeting, when they have no right to ask anyone to leave unless it is rented. They collect money so they can pay for rent yet they are accepting freebies instead of being self supporting and paying there way.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

avogadno's picture

For exposing the lying and self righteous group that occupies the parks in Florida.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

AVO- thank you. Even though I disagree with the philosophy of AA and NA, I have to say that I am shocked at how they act in Sunrise Park Holly Hill around children and other patrons. It is like nobody ever taught them any manners.You will see older people walking there little dog along the pathway near the meetings, and very young children playing on the nearby swings, and you have these clowns yelling about there drug use,there violence, there drug dealing and using foul language without any consideration whatsoever for those around them and are in earshot.

This is in part where the narcissistic behavior really reveals itself. Even though people continue to complain all the was up to AAWS and NAWS, they ignore all advice and thumb there nose at there own
peers and local citizens.

Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

JR Harris's picture

your house? Traditions 10, 11and 12 strictly forbid the actions that AA members are doing in Holly Hill Florida. How would you feel if it was Wicans or Scientology members doing this?

10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.
12 Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

I would disagree with this. AA has no opinion on if that group should be meeting in the park or not. They aren't bringing their name into controversy. Some citizens group is doing it for them. Is this meeting being filmed? No, in fact it is the citizen group that wants people to "sign in" so they are the ones trying to break people's anonymity. I think they are putting principles before personalities. Someone got her panties in a wad because she could hear someone talking about God in a public place.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

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