Tom Horvath, Ph.D
Forums:
I think I love this guy. He says everything I have learned since I got to AA five years ago... as well as to OP.
Q: What would you say to people in 12 step programs who critique the method?
A: There are lots of reasons why someone might not resonate with SMART Recovery, just as there are other reasons why someone might not resonate with 12 step, or other approaches. Individuals seeking recovery should be informed about their options, and then make choices based on their own experience. What someone else thinks about a particular recovery approach is irrelevant if the individual has chosen it and it’s working well.
Q: Any last thoughts that you’d like to share with us?
A: I look forward to the day when everyone associated with recovery understands and states that there are as many paths to recovery as there are individuals.
Clara
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 09:25
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He also can't provide success
He also can't provide success rates because tracking isn't part of his program. Seems convenient. But he also likes the Serenity Prayer and suggests people use it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 19:31
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Clara, took the quote completely out of context
Tom Horvath does not suggest the Serenity prayer in any way shape or form. He uses it as an example as how ridiculous Alcoholics Anonymous is.
"This self-empowering approach contrasts with the powerlessness or acceptance approach of the 12-steps. I suggest to people that they consider the Serenity Prayer: “God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.” Of course we all need serenity, and courage, not to mention wisdom! But some individuals, looking forward, imagine they’ll use courage, more than serenity. "
Source: http://blog.smartrecovery.org/?p=1904
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
JR Harris
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 09:35
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"I suggest to people that they CONSIDER the Serenity Prayer"
Just a "little" out of context prospect hunter?
"TOM HORVATH: SMART Recovery has a self-empowering approach to recovery. This approach is ideal for individuals who look at the future and think, “whatever happens, I’m going to do my best to make it work for me.” This self-empowering approach contrasts with the powerlessness or acceptance approach of the 12-steps. I suggest to people that they consider the Serenity Prayer: “God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.” Of course we all need serenity, and courage, not to mention wisdom! But some individuals, looking forward, imagine they’ll use courage, more than serenity. SMART Recovery works best for individuals who emphasize courage."
Source: http://drug.addictionblog.org/self-treatment-for-alcoholism-and-drug-add...
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 12:07
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Not at all out of context. I
Not at all out of context. I am very happy to find this stuff because it could be a great assist for me if I cannot find suitable meetings in El Paso. I am glad that this is on his list of suggestions. Prolly not a big surprise as 60% of those surveyed do have a god or hp. He even likes the AA idea of self-funding and uses it in SMART, much like GSO. I jsut don't think these are as in clonflict as others on the board would suggest. He even admits that no support group knows the true answer of success rate. Just because people leave doesn't mean a relapse. The only thing I have ever based that on are people that return, saying that one thing that added to their relapse was the lack of support through meetings. I wouldn't personally know, never having done it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Trisha K.
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 16:17
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Clara thanks for this post.
I didn't find this out of context either. It is important to have more opportunities available if an AA meeting is not working for you. You are right not every AA meeting is a good one. AA/GSO allows for this.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
causeandeffect
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 12:33
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Mmm, mmm, M! Nothing I love more than exposing stepper lies!
And you, Clara, have given me a whole host of them to expose. It might take me a few days, but I will. Now most steppers have slunk off in shame, except for danny bennison, when exposed, but then danny has no shame. JR's quote by Horvath has already proven you wrong.
What are you going to do when you start a SMART meeting and all those drug addicts show up, Clara?
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Clara
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 15:56
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Cause, you feel free to do
Cause, you feel free to do whatever it is that you want to do. My program tells me that I am responsible for my behavior but whatever you do is your business. You guys aren't happy with the steppers around, but then you go looking for them, tell jokes about them and give them room in your heads that does nothing to support the movement you want to promote or to demean the one you wish would go away.
OIt's just mental masturbation on your part. It only does something for you. That just what that is... I dunno, but I don't need to.
The firs thing I am going to do at the SMART meetings will be just what I do when I come here. Thank God that I am not like these people but that there isn't a situation that I probably cannot learn from. I take way something from this forum evvery single day.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
causeandeffect
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 16:09
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So you are going to set up a
So you are going to set up a SMART meeting so you can thank god you're not like them? Are you going to be as passive-aggressive as you are here as well? And exactly how will you express this superiority to them?
Avo the answer to your question is in the link JR supplied. He never suggested anybody say the serenity prayer, he said consider the words. Clara is twisting and misrepresenting anything and everything she can. They honestly do rely on people not reading when they fabricate this stuff. Sorry clara, we're a group of readers.
Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Trisha K.
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 16:20
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I love how the anticults go on about passive aggressive.
Like they have the higher ground covered.
Clara I appreciate the hard work you have put into your research of the SMART program. Thanks.
“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine
Clara
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 19:01
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Cause, I cannot imagine being
Cause, I cannot imagine being so afraid of something that you cannot just read it for yourself. Considering a prayer at all suggests the value of it and i thought that ws grand of a secular program. You may very well be a group of readers, but you also have an agenda that seems pretty narrow in scope. Hate AA at any cost and our tactcis don't matter.
What did you think if the SR 82-60 information, Cause?
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
avogadno
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 14:33
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Question Clara
I like Tom Horvath. You said that he suggests the Serenety Prayer. How do you know this? I'm real curious but I don't want to get into all the reasons why. Is there a written quote some where? Did you hear him speak this?
You said:
"He says everything I have learned since I got to AA five years ago."
I'm honestly not trying to get into an argument. Anyway, don't you think that your statement is not just a stretch but a long shot? Please give examples.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 15:51
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No, I really like this guy,
No, I really like this guy, and I am saying it from the heart. I think this could be of real use to me in an area where I admittedly do not like the meetings. Avo, I know that we've disagreed... but I can tell you since I had a different experience in MB, where AA was supportive, loving and friendly (and where we talked about ALCOHOL and our experiences with it), I wouldn't have stayed in AA here. It's a completely different experience. And, of course, with the traditions, each group can do it their own way, and they don't want to hear how it happened someplace else.
This is from a questin/answer page on http://blog.smartrecovery.org/?p=1904
He suggests it... but everything in all of these programs are but suggestions. But I've seen in other places, the Baltimore convention, fo example, where he's quoted as saying that 60% of people surveyed have a god or HP, some do include amends in their programs and one other thing I thought was attractive. I'll try to find it. It is in the SMART version of the Grapevine.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
causeandeffect
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 16:25
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What do you plan to do when
What do you plan to do when drug addicts show up at your meeting, clara? You know, the filthy ones that keep you out of your AA meeting there in El Paso?
Troll free AA critical forum
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Clara
Mon, 03/12/2012 - 19:02
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Can you please post where I
Can you please post where I said they were filthy? We are a group of readers, you know.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.