Good news about speaking @ Hospitals and Institutions

avogadno's picture
Submitted by avogadno on Thu, 03/08/2012 - 13:01

I have good news.

Since the only requirement alcoholics anonymous is a desire to stop drinking (and the only requirement for narcotics anonymous is a desire to stop using drugs), I've decided to do H&I service work and speak at these institutions to share my experience strength and hope as a recovering person with substantial clean time.

My first speak will be next Thursday evening :=)

There is a women's sober living home in my area and they host daily meetings AA meetings. I've been attending the open meeting for 4 weeks now, mainly to support a friend. Although she has "problems" with the program she does find some of the support helpful. She knows exactly how I feel it and it doesn't pose a problem for either in our friendship. Although I've shared only once at this meeting, I realized that I had sufficient clean time to give a lead at a nearby hospital that has a rehab program. I explained my willingness to the GSR and this got the ball rolling.

I thought that this would be the perfect time to respectively share my feelings about the 12 step model of recovery and explain in detail what works for me. My focus will not be what doesn't work (besides a brief explanation about how I wasted 5 years in XA) but other options that I have found useful.

I'm a bit nervous because I thought I'd be "lying", and I don't want to fuck with people's heads. We all know that AA/NA doesn't give a crap but I didn't find that a good reason to do it myself. I've discussed this with my sober buddy and my husband and found that as long as I speak the truth - "all will be well".
I'm just going to speak my mind and hope that if there are people listening that have the same issues with the program as I do then my speak will be helpful to them.

Comments

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:52

Do you honestly want to invite typographical and grammatical scrutiny upon your posts, btnben? You are headed in this direction and looking not only foolish but just plain stupid.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:47

Yes or no. And remember - Marietta always said she didn't tell lies.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:47

"You are headed in this direction and looking not only foolish but just plain stupid."

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:52

You've got a friend. I told you it would happen one day...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:07

Avo, that is a good point. Why haven't you STARTED a SMART group in your area? You don't even have to have used the program to get sober or even be an addict. It stands to reason that all of these peope that think this is such a good program would be doing that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:44

Your objection is based upon assumptions on what the group thinks and what the GSR thinks. You don't know what I've shared and what my relationship is with the members of that meeting.

They know how long I have attended the group and if they were listening they know how I feel. The program specifically says that the steps are suggestions. I do not take those suggestions and I will express that.

Your opinion doesn't matter to me. You aren't involved in this decision.

My intentions have been made clear. I am going to speak about my experience and tell them about my personal strength and how I recovered - without the steps.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 18:49

I'm glad that I am not involved in the decision, or you would be making a different one, Avo. You agree that you are taking on service in a group that you are not a member of, in a fellowship you don't agree with. They may assume that you are a member. You didn't take any steps, but you think it is advisable to go into a treatment place and say that. I think you are playing with fire - for them. You are already sober. They are working on it. Think it over. Ben has told me if I showed up to do what you want to do, it wouldn't be permitted. That is why I don't understand why anyone thinks this is correct behavior.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 18:52

I didn't say that. You are a liar. Everyone has seen you do it constantly. You will not explain what you are doing here. You are only here to cause trouble. You have been shows several times that you have lied on this thread but you just will not accept it. Your credebility is zero Clara (not that you had much anyway). I ask again - why are you here?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:28

Didn't you tell me if I came to your charity and wanted to speak of my AA success, it wouldn't be permitted? I wouldn't be let in the door? Address your typos, too, Ben, since you are always focused on those of others. I certainly understood that from your posts.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:30

The way you twisted the words round is there for all to read. You do it constantly. Everyone's noticed. I really can't be bothered with you any more. You won't answer questions and you lie and twist other's words around. Enjoy yourself...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 12:45

You cannot speak for "everyone", btnben. You can only speak for yourself.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:08

Your bitchiness unfrocks you, meddlesome priest...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:44

Who among us has been bitchy today, btnben?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Sat, 03/10/2012 - 13:58

"btnben, do you usually have frothy yellow bile for breakfast? Sheep dung for brunch? Sheep are popular in your country, are they not?

Aesthetics."

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:06

Why do we have to repeatedly tell you that AA has been shown to be ineffective? Did you not hear that self-identifying as an alcoholic is detrimental to recovery. Did you miss that the disease concept preached at AA leads to relapse? And how about the confrontational approach that AA uses? That's been proven to make people actually drink more. AA is wrong in it's approach in so many ways and has been proven in study after study after study. It's AA that is playing with fire, not Avo. I'm sorry that you've been duped, but you have. AA doesn't even improve on spontaneous remission. It's approach is soooo wrong, it doesn't even have a placebo effect. In a long list of modalities that work, 12 step facilitation that rehabs use, and AA rank 37 and 38 out of 48. Way at the bottom of the list. It's worse than useless.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:09

The comparison of the studies? A link would be great. I was looking for it for someone yesterday.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:15

Of course I do. Jeebus Ben, I have hundreds of links on this stuff and studies. So many I can't keep up with knowing what's there,

http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:17

That's the one. I know where to come to now...lol. I'm really quite a beginner at all this compared to many of you...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:36

If you need a link just ask. I have all kinds. I have loads on motivational interviewing. Great stuff. Really works and Miller validates soooo much of what orange's said, especially the stupid drunk conspiracy.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:37

Not every day I get an offer like that!!!...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

AntiDenial

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:39

Fresh off the presses people. Veterans in AA that are suicidal not getting the help they need in AA.
Even after 7 years of being sober and in AA, this veteran wants to commit suicide. AA has no business in the mental health field. It is costing lives.

http://nadaytona.org/2012/03/08/suicidal-alcoholics-anonymous-member-cal...

Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 22:56

Original Title:
Veterans Crisis Line Seeks To Help Those Struggling With Civilian Life, Unemployment, Post-Combat Stress

Original Source:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/veterans-crisis-line_n_1322423....

Excerpts:
The free and confidential Veterans Crisis Line, operated by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), is intended to bridge the gap between the vast number of veterans who need help, and the broad array of veterans services offered by the VA.

"The truth is,'' Fenton said, "we fell short and death won out."

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:33

Because it isn't. I have seen many people over my own time get sober, and I know people with plenty of years of sobriety that paved the way for me. Just because it didn't work for YOU doesn't mean it doesn't work for others. Some of us have never relapsed. That someone would want to walk into a facility based on that modality is just wrong. I can't quibble with personal success. If it hadn't worked, I'd be right here agreeing with you and taking in your poison.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:44

Clara, you are the exception to the rule. AA didn't work for you, not drinking did. AA doesn't work-period. I realize that studies mean nothing to you, nor does the fate of the majority it doesn't work for, but to me, to be as unconcerned about others as you are is ultimately selfish. You may want to be self-righteous here, but really it doesn't fly with those of us who know you have access to this information but you choose to ignore it and you don't care who it harms because you are sober. You cannot claim any moral high ground here because you only care about yourself. We on the other hand care about that vast majority you choose to dismiss.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:54

Which other professionals don't agree with either. Your information is not the be all know all. You have collected a lot of data that is slanted in the direction you want it to go.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 20:01

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

dolson's picture

dolson

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 13:25

I'm glad that I am not involved in the decision, or you would be making a different one, Avo.

Yeah, nothing like threats from a fabricated online character.

Go ahead, enjoy yourselves - it's getting late, much later than you think.

gigi

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:12

I would think that simply telling the truth about your experience and telling people that there are options and resources out there would be sufficient. I know that I would have definitely appreciated being told that AA was not the only way.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:02

But if it is an AA meeting she is inquiring about then it is an AA meeting they want. Just like if it was a SMART meeting they were looking for then they want a SMART meeting.
Dishonesty serves no one.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:27

If Pagans, Witches, Thieves, Murderers and Rapists are allowed to speak at AA meetings, why aren't the Alternatives allowed to speak. Afraid it might hurt the membership of the cult?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:36

It's just a wrong approach, although I think we all are laudable in our recovery efforts and wanting it for others. I just find it interesting that someone would be 12 stepping SMART in an AA meeting. I also love what I saw in SMARTs version of the Grapevine. SMART Ideas with a lit lightbulb! I wonder if they absconded with that pesky doorknob thing that you all think is so serious.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:32

She's being dishonest, and I am sure that since she spoke to the GSR about it, he/she thinks she is going as part of service. That would be wrong no matter the program. One of the premises of AA that I like is doing no harm. This woman doesn't want to screw with people's heads, but that is just what she wants to do whether she can admit it or not. No honor at all.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:36

Only an AA member could call telling the truth "being dishonest"...what a joke.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:17

Her motives are skewed. I was on board at first, but not when I paid closer attention to the details. She appears to have gone through a GSR. She's just not right.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 18:19

You're the only one on this whole forum who said Avo hadn't gone through the GSR. Where did you get this information from? She is 100%, completely right.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:37

I didn't say that she didn't go through a GSR. Read my post again.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

gigi

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:42

If she goes to the meeting and tells the truth she is absolutely being honorable. The truth is always honorable.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:34

Nope. She's going to AA meetings uner the guise of supporting a friend. She approaches the GSR about this. Unless she has told the GSR her exact position on AA, she's being as dishonest as she can be. I could care less about which program it supports or any program at all. It's just sleazy and, yes, it is dishonest. I have given an honest scenario that she could still do. Call up the director at the facility, make an appointment and give her talk. I am sure the facility thinks she would be coming as part of an AA group.

And perhaps she'll have to do it in order to see what is wrong with it. I remember a guy in the group that was dating a church secretary at St. Andrews Church. When she dumped him, he scheduled a confession. Was it because he was such a good Catholic? No, he wanted to dump on her and embarrass her at her employment because he knew that the priest lived next door to her. Nothing different.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:45

I thought you said overandoverandover that AA doesn't care how people get sober. You are showing yourself and AA to be hypocrites.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:39

AA agrees there are other ways to sobriety, but this sounds as if it is a 12 step facility with AA meetings. I'm sorry, but she has other options than the one she is choosing to take. And why is she interesting in 12 stepping?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 06:33

.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 14:50

Why should it matter? AA apologetic lie all of the time because they believe the ends justifies the means and since they are the 3-5% that get brainwashed that AA is a viable "treatment" and go forth to be fruitful and multiply they lie almost everytime they open their mouths. They just don't know it unless they have been successfully deprogrammed from the cult.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 16:30

How would you know?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 15:52

If they have made their choice then they can leave my speak with me. Many have not. Witness most people on the OPF. For whatever reason they ended up in the rehabs or rooms of AA and they share my opinion. Those are the people that will hear what I have to say.

You think there is no honor in sharing my experience? What helped ME? What might help others. Anyone at AA can say what they want so because I'm different than most AA's my experience doesn't help? So much of what they share I disagree with and so does my friend. Many words the words MUST and WE and HAVE TO. I will not say those things.

You have no clue about what I specifically discussed with the GSR.

As to my intentions. They are to reach anyone that has the same thoughts and beliefs that I do. The others will continue to do what they think is right. For the people that share my beliefs, they will be thankful because, like me and so many others, thought that they were wrong because that was what they are told. They can choose when they hear the truth.

Clara, you are being closeminded and rude.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 16:48

I am not. You are just wrong, dear. If you want to go and have any credibility, do it a different way. First, you aren't an AA, yet you are posing as one at meetings to supposedly help a friend. Tell your GSR your complete story or even the one you tell here, and let him make the call. You can still make arrangements to go back and tell your story, but your method is wrong. You are also pushing that 3rd tradition. At open meetings, you don't have to have any qualifier at all. But that GSR thinks you are an AA trying to do some service work. Why else would someone one to lead a meeting?

I'd rather be closeminded and rude than what you are, Avo.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 16:48

Or have you changed the rules so you can get angry about it, fruitcake?

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 17:38

In this case and I am pretty sure this H&I meeting is closed to AA members only. If you are being honest you know what that means.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Thu, 03/08/2012 - 19:42

She is the one that feels comfortable being in the OPEN meetings because of the third tradition. She does have a desire not to drink but there is no requirement for anything in open meetings. She brought it up, not me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

dolson's picture

dolson

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 14:08

Tradition 3 is an all access back stage pass to any aa death cult meeting. Be them open or closed.

Keep spewing lies and propaganda as you have been programmed to do - Robo troll.

Go ahead, enjoy yourselves - it's getting late, much later than you think.

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 14:12

Here's a thought, dolson: your time might be better spent constructing a thoughtful yet unprejudiced post on how you escaped the throes of substance abuse and how you've developed a lifestyle that neither compromises your own beliefs nor condemns anyone else's.

See you back here in 4,500 years.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

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