Goodday All. What a lovely "Ignore Danny Monday"...lol
Just something I've had a little think about. Is 13th stepping all one way?
I remember my missus buying me a little fridge magnet kind of thing - the kind of thing that has funny sayings on it. It was a definition. It said "MAN - A rather simple machine that converts beer into piss". She loved it...lol. And as far as dealing with women is concerned, the "simple machine" bit is true of a lot of men I should imagine (it is of me...lol).
Now - On the 13th stepping front, men are pretty transparent when it comes to intentions. I'm just wondering if women are a bit more subtle? One thing I've noticed, both personally and around the rooms, is that when you give up drinking and sort out your debts, your bank balance improves remarkably quickly. This is not so for all, for a variety of reason, mainly health, but it is certainly true of many.
Now, a financially secure non-drinker, the majority of whom are approaching middle age, would make a pretty appealing prospect for a lot of women. Especially, I should imagine, the 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) time around club. I wonder if the rooms of AA have started to be a hunting ground for predatory women.
I'm not sure whether to post this or not. Definitely potential for flak coming my way...lol. As a sort of disclaimer, may I say I abhor 13th stepping in AA and have actively stepped in on 2 occasions where a particularly offensive culprit was concerned (same person both times - he doesn't like me...lol). It's just that I can remember a couple of occasions - both in the past, nothing current - where women with no particularly obvious drinking problem and rather vague stories, have quickly latched onto very "eligible" men in the roomz. Just wondering if anyone else had noticed it. An AA dating club - sound horrendous...lol
Comments
dandammit
Fri, 05/25/2012 - 06:27
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avogadno
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:41
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Female Counselor accused of having sex with teen patient
HOUSTON (KTRK) -- A substance abuse counselor is accused of having sex with one of her patients -- a 16-year-old boy -- and police say it happened more than once.
According to police, the counselor and her patient had attended an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting on a July night after which they went 'parking.' When police arrived, the whole alleged relationship began to unravel.
Until Tuesday, Amanda Leann Kueht was a drug and alcohol recovery counselor. Now she's a defendant, arrested Tuesday night by West University Place police. Now Kueht, 28, is charged with sexual assault of a child under 17.
"Had inappropriate contact with a victim that is underage," said prosecutor Amanda Skillen.
On July 27 in a church parking lot, a West U. patrol officer is said to have spotted a car. It didn't seem right and then he observed a partially dressed male teenager and Keuht in the back seat.
"The female subject in the back seat was 28 years of age and the male subject in the back seat -- our victim -- was 16 years of age," said Patrick Phil Clark of the West U. Place Police Department.
The couple's clothes were disheveled. Later, the teen told investigators while no sex took place that night, it had before.
"It had been going on for a few weeks with numerous encounters," said Clark.
According to court documents, the teen told the officer that Kueht was his substance abuse counselor for about a year and that they had been engaged in a sexual relationship for about two weeks. The teen also said he and Kueht had a sexual encounter in the parking lot of his apartment complex in Houston.
Court documents state the teen also told police that he had other sexual relations with Kueht during a retreat with his recovery group in Idaho.
Kueht was a counselor at Cornerstone Recovery in Houston where the teenage boy was a client.
Based on the boy's statements, Kueht was arrested and was in court Thursday morning. She is free on $30,000 bond. She left the courthouse with her family
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 16:03
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He's a patient at her rehab
He's a patient at her rehab but it merits a spot on an anti-AA board? This is wrong on so many levels, but I don't think AA had anything to do with it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
avogadno
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 16:11
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AA and rehab
They were busted screwing in the parking lot of an AA meeting.
If they were in a regular parking lot I'd still post the story though.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 16:16
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Yes, as I said, it is wrong
Yes, as I said, it is wrong on so many levels, but so what if they were in an AA parking lot? It really has nothing to do with it. They had sex in his apartment complex parking lot, too.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 16:27
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It proves that opposite sex Sponsor/Sponcee relationships
should not exist. This was a licensed medical professional and SHE succumbed to the temptation that theses relations cause. Unless people want to "blame the victim" like most Spiritual degenerate AA members will try. It was ILLEGAL due to his age and there is no excuse.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
avogadno
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:11
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It's clearly related to AA.
It's clearly related to AA. They met in a 12 step facility and went to AA meetings together. She was a rehab counselor which is equivelant to being a temporary sponsor. It looks to me like she was applying for a full time job.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
btnben
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:00
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I'm not trying to start a war here
It's just that there are often mixed standards. For example, men sleeping around are not looked upon in the same light as women sleeping around.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
avogadno
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 11:02
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Starting a war.
It's a war!! :=) LOL.
You are right, it is not viewed the same way. Men that get "some" are viewed as cool. Women that screw around are known as "whores". Truthfully, when I hear of men (outside of 13 stepping) that mess around I just think, "well that figures, they are horn dogs afterall." I don't hold judgement. Women though...I tend to critisize, at least in my mind. I'm just being honest, not trying to be a bitch. I think it has a lot to do with me having a Mother that was very strict and straight laced when it came to sex. She thought that women didn't/shouldn't get enjoyment out of it and that it was done to please men. Or to get affection and/or a baby. No wonder I would tend to drink and drug, eh? LOL. Avo = Woman, btw.
Back to the topic, women predators probably use different tactics. Perhaps they try to reverse the roll and try get the man to want them or make the move so that from an onlooker standpoint they think it was the guy's doing. I hear a lot of women use sex to control relationships too. And being a predator isn't always about sex, there's the money angle too.
From what I understand, Gay/Lesbian meetings are awful when it comes to vultures. Men and women (sex and money). I'd really like to take a closer look at this situation but I've never been to any of those meetings.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 16:04
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OMG, it happened. True.
OMG, it happened. True.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:29
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Duplicate
..
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
JR Harris
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:31
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Well we know Male Sponsors and Female Sponcees are trouble
Everyone knows that Male Sponsors with Female Sponcees are a big no-no in AA circles. It also depends on who pursued the arrangement. Someone had to make the first move, even thought the apologetic AA answer will always try to say it was a mutual agreement. That is not true, someone had to make the first move, just like dating it just doesn't happen. Someone had to "want" the other person for one thing or the other and initiate contact.
We also have the flip side, how about Females having Male Sponcees? Then we have the problem of the "love" triangle. What if one of them is married? What if both of them are married? The apologetic AA answer is that if they are both married, it is OK, but it really is not. No matter how you try and say it is OK, you are sharing your deepest darkest secrets with someone who is not your spouse and taking their advice in family matters which they should not be putting their noses in. It doesn't matter which if one is 13th Stepper or a Cougar, your looking for trouble and making a bad example for newcomers to follow.
End Story
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
mfc66uk
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:40
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I live in a very expensive
I live in a very expensive part of London and that does attract people from other areas and certainly some women are interested in pulling a rich man and are on the lookout especially at the big fashionable meetings. I would not have classed it as aggressive 13th stepping in the way that some men do it on young women or in some cases young men but it still goes on a bit. I can think of a couple of women who were in their 50' s who did have a reputation for doing it but they were not as controlling as thoses who did it the other way round. I used to go to some fairly rough meetings outside the area which actually were more useful to me. They brought me into contact with people who had been on the streets and really struggled to recover. I found many of those people to be more grounded and less interested in the spiritual superstitious stuff than those at the posh meetings. They were genuinely interested in helping people recover rather than spouting stepper talk for the sake of it. Of course there were some who did that but the meetings were more balanced and there seemed to be less problems with 13 stepping on both sides. However when it became common knowledge due to gossip that I lived in a different area then I did get a fair bit of attention but I was more worried about my annonimity . I can't see too many women going to a meeting purely to meet men as most regulars are not great relationship material especially if they live in the rooms and go on about higher powers etc all day long but then again there are quite a few people with money in the rooms. The gossip problem in AA is especially a problem for those with a high income etc who have a drinking problem and think AA is as safe as rehab where they have been encouraged to open up in a more controlled environment.You can end up sharing things about your life in front of all kinds of people whom will try to manipulate you. I did have two women who had been the rooms for years who wanted to work with me and this was disastrous although it made me realise quite quickly that just because someone goes to the rooms for years they may not be honest and may not give a shit about the traditions that are supposed to provide some measure of safety for those that attend. In reality they are completely inadequate for modern meetings that are large and have a broad range of members from the the criminal to the rich. The lack of accountability will lead to more and more problems. Some people use the rooms as a pickup joint because so many have been through divorces caused by bad behaviour when drinking or crank behaviour in recovery thanks to useless sponsors sticking their nose in and buggering up marriages. I saw this happen a lot, as many people could not form a relationship anywhere else.I saw a few people have strong relationships in the rooms but most failed which is fairly inevitable when partners share private business in meetings which of course they are encouraged to do. This can have dire consequences for the other partner.
The dangers of predatory behaviour are not often discussed in the rooms as members never like to say anything negative about the programme. You can see that by the response of some of the people here that never give a proper dignified answer to anything but just give an irritating argumentative sentence about anger etc that has no substance. I feel that it is the sort of thing that should be made clear to newcomers and be included the available literature but as with most things in the rooms there is nothing up to date and it would hardly have been in Bill's interest to warn about 13 stepping.
People like myself went to AA purely to recover from drinking not to end up with some kind of mad cultish lifestyle divorced from the real world. It is easy to get sucked in to the madness and takes courage to walk away especially with all the talk about relapse if you don't go to meetings. Leaving was the best thing I ever did and I now have a much better less stressful life. I do not think that long term attendance in AA leads to a particularly stable lifestyle.
Clara
Thu, 09/13/2012 - 17:28
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I certainly agree with some
I certainly agree with some of what you've written, but I have never gone into a meeting and downed my spouse.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Ironic
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 11:38
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Women certainly do troll for men at meetings
Which I think is ridiculous but it happens. I think they generally tend to be less aggressive, though. I saw/heard a lot more about men being old and predatory and women being young and new to the program and all then the opposite way.
Clara
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 16:14
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I knew a woman that went to
I knew a woman that went to open AA meetings in Florida to meet men to date. She wasn't even an alcoholic (well...) and she loved to party, so I wonder how she though that was going to work.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
btnben
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 12:59
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Happy music...lol
Always cheers me up this song. Enjoy...lol(god I hate it when people say that...lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLf--6RJbbc
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
btnben
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 18:19
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Baldwin Reasearch - Alcoholism is not a disease
I was looking for something else (still am...lol) and, as usually happens, I got waylaid...lol. This is a page from the Baldwin Research site going into the history of the Disease Concept in quite some detail for anyone who's interested. It's even got the Jellinek curve in it for those who haven't seen it...lol
http://www.baldwinresearch.com/alcoholism.cfm
One line out of it - just to whet appetites...lol "And, if this 12 step nonsense is not harmful enough, misinformation abounds. "
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc