The Daily Bitch 4th March 2012

btnben's picture
Submitted by btnben on Sat, 03/03/2012 - 16:20

This is just a personal opinion, but I am getting severely pissed off with the trolls on here. They are going to kill off this forum if something isn't done about them. Trolls, like any other cancer, are best disposed of quickly.

This forum was great fun and was really starting to grow until the trolls arrived. Clara and Danny are currently ruining this forum. What does everyone else think?

Comments

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 20:33

Tomorrow may be a bad day for you...lol. It's in the stars...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:21

Why did you delete that post where I picked you up for responding to Danny? You're too fucking thick to be any danger...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:15

Trisha, I have dated four UK men and each used abusive foul language. I think it is just their culture to sound as if they are in a pub. But it surely goes to show that they shouldn't complain about the language allegedly used in rooms for children to overhear. This is just who these people are.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 20:15

Danny, nobody made a rape threat but you. Fuck off.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:54

First of all, bill wilson tried to weasel huge contributions from Rockefeller and if he thought he could do it, he would have gotten Federal money too. He was a greedy bugger. And I wouldn't be so sure about 12 step treatment not getting Federal money if I were you. And no one has suggested that SMART is any more free than AA. This is merely your twisted logic. Go back and read all of everyone's posts ever in this site, and you'll see nobody ever said that.

SMART is based on many different modalities that have been proven to work. AA has been proven ineffective. I saw you last night scoffing at Addictive Voice Recognition Technique when I was too tired to reply. Scoff if you must, but simple as it seems it is merely tapping into the one technique, the only technique that truly works--not giving in to your addictive mind. I'm fortunate to have found it early in sobriety.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:57

How long ago was this, 65 years ago. It did not happen. So please give it a rest with the woulda, shoulda and what if scenario's.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 20:00

Just Google it folks.............

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 21:22

Just looking for venture capital, cause and effect, like every other businessman. They all do it - that's how they finance business.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:22

Thank you for recognzing the addictive mind. We call it something else in AA, and I am glad that science has finally caught up and proven it. I have a friend of mine that uses a similar technique in her cancer treatment. I'm pointing out that your addiction talks you and you believe it. AAs believe something similar. I never found any stats for SMART nor were any given when I asked. But if it works for you, that is all that matters. I hope that you are sharing it with others as the manual suggests.

AA doesn't accept government monies, but SMART does. AA doesn't accept monies based an tradition and for a number of reasons. An AA can start a meeting, surely, but in SMART the BoD provides the time and is obligated to provide the cash. That wouldn't happen in AA. If Rockefeller wanted to give a donation to a budding movement, fine, I guess. That was his choice. He also put conditions on it. I haven't read anywhere in the SMART literature where there is a limit that can be contributed by any individual. In AA, it is 3k, maybe 4k.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Brett

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:31

What language does your addiction or disease talk to you in.

Brett

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:39

LOL

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Brett

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:45

I reckon it's Bull Shit crazy. How can they still belive once it's been pointed out to them ? As you suggest, I guess, bloody morons

Brett

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:37

Are you talking about - again - "Last Word"? What difference does the funding make to whether a method works or not? The funding issue was brought up to display the hypocrisy of AA, not as a comparison to SMART. Nothing like twisting what people have said to hijack a thread. Have you read the section on propaganda techniques? Probably wrote half of it yourself...lol.

You mentioned the Rockefeller donations. This "altruistic" new foundations that FREELY gave of what it had to others? The first two members were on the take from day 1. That's where the Rockefeller money went. They paid off Dr Bob's mortgage because, by that time, he was so batshit crazy that he couldn't earn a living. They also took a regular income RIGHT FROM DAY !. Clarence Snyder complained about it and has subsequently been removed from AA literature. Criticising the Guru will not be tollerated. Here's the original CS letter - clear enough for you?

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cleve1944.html

And on the tradition that talks about not taking outside contributions, how much did AAWS receive for hosting last years World Convention in San Antonio was it? My money was on it being more than 3 or 4K...lol. Accept it "Last Word" - AA is a money making scam. Has been from the start. It's a good scam, I grant you, but the lid has been lifted and people are looking in. It is not a pretty sight...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 06:12

I think bringing up that AA doesn't accept government monies is appropriate. I am in compare/contrast mode right now. People want to gripe that AA is in prisons, yet they forgot to mention that SMART has been there too since 1996. It's okay to have an opposing view, per Orange, but I think there has been a deliberate double standard.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 06:14

You are NOT in "compare/contrast mode". You only point out similarities. That is a deliberate lie. Stop it.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 18:56

We've all been there in meetings when alternatives are mentioned. It's a green flag for eye rolling, knowing smiles (often accompanied by tutting) and sighing which is as much as to say "You would be mad to try anything else". How many times have you heard shares where people said they tried everything else (without actually going into detail of what they tried) and the only thing that worked for them was AA.

No-one in a meeting would even consider that is was coincidence that when they stopped drinking, they happened to do it while trying the quack cure called AA. They - and I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM - were going to give up drinking anyway. They did it for themselves. The fact that they give AA the praise is up to them, but it's a lie.

Please don't come back with "I couldn't do it on my own" because you did. The fact that you're not drinking now means you're lying if you say you could never stop. All you had to do was want to enough - that's it.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:13

I've never been in a meeting when alternatives are mentioned. I have heard people say they stopped before but couldn't stay stopped until they went to AA. On the other hand, I've known people who've worked the steps for decades and couldn't stay sober. But I've never heard an actual alternative discussed. The closest I've heard anything come to that was one newcomer said he read in a book that exercise was good to release endorphins for newly sober people. He was shut up right away when an old time interrupted him and said if it wasn't in the big book, it was permissible to mention it in a meeting.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:35

Okay, I will accept that it didn't happen that way for you, but that doesn't mean it is that way everywhere.

If they tried the steps and couldn't stay sober, why didn't they try something else? Why would someone shut up a newcomer for saying something that is directly out of Living Sober? Exercise is highly encouraged for a variety of reasons. First of all, move a muscle, change a thought. Did you hear that one ever? It also helps the body heal from the abuses of alcohol and it can help with people having insomnia due to the changes in the body. I can't imagine anyone dumping on someone for the same suggestions that are also in SMART literature.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:39

Bitching again - nobody dumped on anybody, but you have to imply that they have to add credence to your bull. You've got away with it long enough "Last Word". We'll have to start pulling you up more...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:46

Then why ask?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:46

Then why ask?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:27

Ben, it is true. And no one is bitchier than you. I have maintained decorum on this site. I guess you've given proof to an earlier post that you made. A thug is always a thug. You may have put down the drink and walked away from it, but you do not appear to be a joyful person. For some people, being drink-free is enough. AA encourages more. We certainly discuss balance alot in AA, as does SMART, it would appear. Not through the material completely, but I will get there.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:48

Can't you understand that? This is an anti AA site. You are not anti AA. Why are you here?

You are tolerated, that's it. Your constant condescension is becoming intolerable.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 06:21

Orange says that opposition is allowed. You have taught me more than any person on this site, and I am grateful for that.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 06:23

.....oppose using lies and half-truths and propaganda tricks, it's only fair that your constant deception be revealed. That's the point of discussion. Nearly 2:30 - lunch over. I've got to work...lol.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 07:36

But you only think that way because you disagree. I mean, I am not the one that refused to disclose the similarities between AA and SMART. Just. AA makes you pay, AA sells literature, AA goes into the jails, AA should provide online opportunities (when it has for 25 years) when payment is voluntary, SMART asks for donations, goes into jails, has online presence and its books aren't free, either. I don't see how you can dispute any of this.

Now, that you may think that SMART should be the ONLY program in jails might be a reality but that would limit choice, and I thought that is what we are all about. Options that can work for you because I think they all agree that none of it is for everyone. But AA never goes into a place and asks to use its facilities for free as does SMART. If SMART were out in the park having a meeting, Anti would think it was ideal. And for all I know, maybe a SMART facilitator has done that. But the complaint was that they do it just to get out of paying - gasp!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:25

"Now, that you may think that SMART should be the ONLY program in jails might be a reality but that would limit choice, and I thought that is what we are all about." - Where in God's name did ANYONE say ANYTHING like that. You're making it up to paint a false picture.

"Options that can work for you because I think they all agree that none of it is for everyone." - Where in God's name do you get that from? The people on this site for the right reasons believe that AA doesn't work. Full stop. It's not a matter of comparison - it's a statement of fact. AA doesn't work. Having proved and accepted that, alternatives, like SMART, are being investigated on an on-going basis, not to prove they are better than AA, but because AA is worthless at best, so let's try something else.

Your continued "It may not work for some" bullshit is an attempt to deceive and will be highlighted every time you try and use it.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:32

That isn't true. Most programs say the same thing. Who guarantees it?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:52

Are you talking about - that post doesn't make sense

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:29

That's okay, Ben. I put down the drink three weeks before I ever went to a meeting. I don't credited it with GETTING me sober, but keeping me that way. Where were you when I posted this first?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:36

WTF has that got to do with anything? Apart from the fact that it is possible to stop drinking without AA. And please don't say you couldn't stay stopped on your own, because you didn't try this time - you went to AA.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 19:44

Why do you care about the methodology here, btnben? That is this woman's experience. You don't have to accept it or like it. Move on.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 05:45

..... about her experience. It has no place here. Everyone on here is completely conversant with the deluded characters who have swallowed the con hook line and sinker. We have seen them a thousand times at meeting. For me, personally, that was one of the things that made me question AA - the slave like dumping of freewill and personal decision making.

What I dislike so intently with "Last Word" is her continual condescending remarks and "you are wrong but I understand" attitude. I put up with it for enough years in the roomz. I'm not putting up with it any more. It is a tactic to wear people down over time so they conform. It has no place on this site and I will point it out wherever I see it.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 07:54

I don't think any of us is necessarily right or wrong. But I have been truthful about my experiences in the fellowship and for the most part, they have been much more positive than what you all describe. Obviously because I stayed and you went on to different pastures. And if it works for you, I am all for it.

I certainly hear plenty of half truth and misrepresentation. That Cause objected to AA getting government funds because it is a religious organzition was amade up retort when I discovered that SMART accepts government money because AA has never ASKED for government monies, so why would any have a position on the non-existent? That my sponsor used some of the SMART tools with me brought outcry. To me, some of those worksheets are just a twist on inventories in a different form. I know peope whose sponsors had them tally up the financial costs of their drinking and we were astounded at even the rough estimates that they were. We did t-bars of the pros and cons. I think all of these are good and useful. Sometimes I think the experience someone has in AA has a lot to do with the caliber of the sponsor.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:17

"Obviously because I stayed and you went on to different pastures." - You've been there five years. A lot of people on here were in AA for a lot longer than that, so "Obviously" it wears off in time - wouldn't you say so? - "Obviously"?.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:30

I live in the day, Ben. I can't say what would happen tomorrow. Maybe the days will stretch into decades. You are right 5 years of my life isn't a huge part of it... but it has been a wonderful part of it. And if it no longer works, I know that I have other things to try.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:48

“That Cause objected to AA getting government funds because it is a religious “organzition was amade up retort I discovered that SMART accepts government money because AA has never ASKED for government monies, so why would any have a position on the non-existent?”

No Clara, try to get your facts straight. It was not a made up retort. There is a little thing called the Constitution and it contains a little thing called Establishment Clause: Separation of Church and State. Everywhere that it’s been tried, the Higher Courts of this nation has determined AA to be RELIGIOUS and as such, can’t receive government funding, nor can it legally mandate AA as the only option for recovery. This is a position that has been maintained on this site and you’ve been here long enough to know better. Nobody cares if AA’s offered as just one option, but they MUST be offered a secular option. Additionally, we would much prefer that inmates are offered something that something that has actually been proven to work so they stop re-offending. AA hasn’t been shown to work. You are the only one having an objection to SMART, which is evidence based, receiving funding.

I think you also need to prove your assertion that AA has never asked to government funding. I’ll be waiting for you to provide proof that 12 step has never asked for or received government funding.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 08:57

You've used logic before, but "Last Word" can just ignore that. Now your stooping to FACTS - the last resort of the desperate. And to compound the felony you also employ THE TRUTH. There is no hope for you. May you rot in HELL...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:22

Sigh. I know Ben. Using the truth and facts are obviously the product of an angry alcoholic mind. I need to go back to AA for that-- so I'll quit using facts and truth and just rely on slogans and superstitious faith healing.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:24

What a load of bull...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:01

I agree with your assessment of the Constitution, but you need to provide proof that AA ever has done that, ask for government funds. You clearly knew nothing about the traditions because they never would have asked for that. That is what the post was about, that SMART DOES. I would imagine that is a conflict of interest. That non-secular options need to be available has been addressed and SMART has been in jails since 1996. Do you dispute their published information? I don't consider my acknowlegement of their receiving government funds to be a problem. Why is it a sore spot with you?

I also believe that the alcoholic brain differs from others. Bill W. did, too, so apparently science just caught up to him.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:02

How is government funding a conflict of interests. It's a social problem that costs taxpayers billions. Investing a little to save a lot is good business.

And do you seriously believe that con man Bill W would have turned down a penny from ANY SOURCE for ethical reasons? You really are living in a dream world...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:09

Yes, because they did turn down monies. Bill was reigned in a few times.

Yes, it is social problem affecting millions and costing billions. I don't have a problem with SMART collecting government funds. I just pointed out that as one of the few differences I had been able to see to that point of my reading. I am sorry that someone freaked out about it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:14

I asked if Bill W, the con man, would ever turn down money - you said yes and then went on to say others stopped him. Did you really mean "No"...lol. Minor difference.

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Clara's picture

Clara

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:29

He didn't accept. The ideas were promoted to him and he passed them on to others, that told him no. How is that was you are trying to infer?

Say, AA literature is available through recoveryApp for free. Has SMART cuaght up to that or do I need to buy my handbook from their site? Is there an e-book to download? Ihave naother questio, too, as I have seen Rational Recovery bandied about. Sounds like an AA NY/Akron deal. In any case, why do people still promote Rational recovery when it seems they's stopped operating free support groups as of 2000?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:35

SMARTs tools are available for free on their website. AA's big book is available on line for free because the copyright was never renewed. But AA has sued individuals in Mexico and Germany for distributing the big book for free. Some poor bastard went to prison for it if I recall correctly. They had to do it in other countries because they couldn't get away with it here.

Rational Recovery also has a short course online for free. I found it early in sobriety and it was what kept me sober, not AA. Worked 100% for me. I'm not a big Trimpey fan, but he certainly tapped into something there.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:39

The original price in 1939 was $3.50. That's the equivalent of $55-60 today. I don't think SMART are charging anything near that...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

becket's picture

becket

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:33

So Rational Recovery kept you sober. Why did you not simply keep yourself sober? What power did Rational Recovery have that you did not? This sounds as if you used Rational Recovery in a Higher Power capacity.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 10:37

A higher power? Don't be absurd. In the early days it helped me to not give in to cravings and urges. AA did nothing toward that ends. In fact, AA made me want to drink even more and I had to use RR to counteract it.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

btnben's picture

btnben

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 09:37

All people on here say, and have always said, is that AA doesn't work. 75 years of trial and failure are pretty good proof of that. The thing with SMART and others is that they are new - let's give them a try. AA has had a more than fair crack of the whip and failed miserably. Time to bin it and look at something with a bit more science and a bit less voodoo.

Talking of voodoo - I heard Danny went to voodoo classes but had a bit of a problem when it came to sticking the pins in dolls. His kept popping...lol

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

Pages