By STEVE HUNTER
Kent Reporter Courts, government reporter
January 26, 2012 · 12:21 PM
Kent Police arrested a woman for investigation of harassment after she reportedly interrupted an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting Jan. 17 in the 300 block of Third Avenue South.
An officer heard a female yelling from just south of the Kent Police Station and went with another officer to investigate, according to the police report.
A witness told the officers that the woman became loud at the meeting and began accusing other members of being child molesters. When the woman was asked to leave, she allegedly became angrier, balled her fists, assumed a fighting stance and threatened to hit another woman.
When officers arrived they recognized the woman from past incidents and noted she had a history of drug and alcohol abuse as well as mental health issues. They also said she can become confrontational very quickly.
The officers arrested the woman without incident and transported her to the city jail. The woman also was arrested last month for fourth-degree assault and harassment, according to jail records.
http://www.kentreporter.com/news/138147313.html
Edited on 3/4/12 to respond to becket's following questions (he asked below):
"What is the point of posting this piece? Are you alleging that the woman was making a claim of sexual abuse which no one chose to heed and then had her summarily removed by law enforcement? Are you saying the mentally ill can get into a fighting stance faster than the average drunk?"
My response:
I posted this news article because it concerns Alcoholics Anonymous and gives a couple of examples (of many) as to why I think that AA meetings can become dangerous.
What happened here is a good example of how meetings can get out of control. More than 40% of people that abuse alcohol and drugs are medicating for a psychological illness. Also, there are many "members" that go to meetings only to fulfill a parole agreement and they are not limited to dui offenders. There are are also violent and sexual criminals that get sent to AA/NA regularly.
The results are thousands of meetings taking place a day in the U.S. with approximately 50 % of the members having a psychiatric illness and/or are felons. The meetings have NO ONE in charge (only recovering alcoholics present in most) and there are absolutely no safety coordinator to turn to when something like the above occurs and the meetings get out of control.
Members occasional bring children to meetings. Also, minors attend too. Throw into the mix that many members are vulnerable newcomers that are sick and scared and the result is a perfect recipe for disaster. This incident can be added to growing number that has been occurring: Violence with and without weapons, sexual harassment, general misconduct (urinating on and around the public property, littering, general rowdiness).
I also posted this article because there have been cases of child molestation that have occurred involving some of the more sick members and their peers’ (other member's) children. Just because someone has a history of mental illness does not mean that they are lying. It could be that she is a schizophrenic and/or hallucinating OR it could also be that she's aware of deviant misconduct and because (or despite) of her illness went about expressing herself in the wrong way. Perhaps she was frustrated because other avenues she has taken to expose a problem were not handled correctly. I have personally witnessed the AA board ignoring claims of violence or sexual misconduct so I would understand those feelings.
It's hard to tell exactly what happened from the information, or lack of, in this article . I suspect we will never know the exact situation surrounding this matter. AA has a habit of ignoring complaints and sweeping any bad press about the program under the carpet. They have a history of LYING, a list that includes their awful success rate, their history, their membership rate, and any reports of violence or sexual abuse.
I wrote a piece called "The 13th Step and Crime" which covers a few of the points I wanted to make more extensively.
http://expaa.webs.com/the13thstepandcrime.htm
Edited again 3/4/12:
Some people have mental disorders first and cope with drugs/alcohol. Some abuse drugs/alcohol (for whatever reason) and develop mental disorders.
"Addiction is common in people with mental health problems
According to reports published in the Journal of the American Medical Association:
Roughly 50 percent of individuals with severe mental disorders are affected by substance abuse.
37 percent of alcohol abusers and 53 percent of drug abusers also have at least one serious mental illness.
Of all people diagnosed as mentally ill, 29 percent abuse either alcohol or drugs.
Source: National Alliance on Mental Illness"
http://helpguide.org/mental/dual_diagnosis.htm
"Some areas of the brain are affected by both drug use disorders and other mental illnesses. For example, the circuits in the brain that use the neurotransmitter dopamine–a chemical that carries messages from one neuron to another– are typically affected by addictive substances and may also be involved in depression, schizophrenia, and other psychiatric disorders."
"Because mood disorders increase vulnerability to drug abuse and addiction, the diagnosis and treatment of the mood disorder can reduce the risk of subsequent drug use. Because the inverse may also be true, the diagnosis and treatment of drug use disorders may reduce the risk of developing other mental illnesses and, if they do occur, lessen their severity or make them more amenable to effective treatment."
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/comorbidity-addic...
Comments
AntiDenial
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 22:16
Permalink
of course she is the one that
of course she is the one that get's into trouble, not the lying members that cover-up these crimes.
Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:30
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Except for the fact that it
Except for the fact that it probably isn't true. If so, where are those charges against them? She sounds like a nutter. She was described has having drug, alcohol and confrontational issues. I can see the woman at our meeting in MB doing just the same thing.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
AntiDenial
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 06:43
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Thanks AVO for the updated
Thanks AVO for the updated blog, I am glad you spelled it out more. These are my concerns as well.
Many people dont realize the dangers of AA meetings.
Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
AntiDenial
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:50
Permalink
Many police protect AA
Many police protect AA members and blame the victim. Happens all the time. I am glad this woman made it in the newspapers to help get the message out about the child molesters that attend meetings. Many are mandated by the courts.
Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
JR Harris
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:55
Permalink
Many police use AA as an outsourced probation department
They also use it as punishment because they know the people will be put through the "spin dry" by the cult,often costing the victim of their outsourcing to spend thousands of dollars in rehab and alienating them from their friends and family.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
AntiDenial
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:07
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Police use AA and NA members
Police use AA and NA members as informants. So they tend to have a cozy relationship with many of the AA/NA/CA members. They protect many of them that have cooperated with police or even prostitutes that take advantage of these women. The police and the newspapers have covered up for 12 steppers for years.
Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
Clara
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 08:14
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Not so sure. We did have a
Not so sure. We did have a woman arrested outside of our clubhouse. The police surely didn't protect her.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 08:26
Permalink
Was she a "mandated" AA member?
Things happen all of the time inside the clubhouses also, it's just the AA members usually cover it up.
"Attempted murder during AA meeting
by Roxanne Werly
Posted: 04.15.2011 at 1:41 PM
TRAVERSE CITY -- A 40-year-old Traverse City man is behind bars, charged with trying to kill another man during an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
It happened around 7:55 Friday morning at 1610 Barlow Street in Garfield Township.
Officials say about fifteen people were at the AA meeting when they noticed one member was acting erratically. The victim, who was the chair of the meeting was trying to call law enforcement when the suspect grabbed the man in a choke hold and cut his face and neck.
Investigators say the men did not know one another.
The victim, a 48 year-old Traverse City man received first aid at the scene and went to Munson Medical Center by private transportation to receive medical attention.
The suspect was arrested and transported to the Grand Traverse County Jail where he is being held on charges of assault with intent to murder.
Source: http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?list=~\home\lists\search&id=606059
Note: AA chairperson who got his throat slashed was allegedly attacked by Eric J. Campbell in Traverse City Michigan at 1610 Barlow Street in April of 2011.
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
becket
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 22:20
Permalink
There are ways to go about
There are ways to go about filing a genuine complaint about sexual abuse. Her choice in this case was ineffective and unwise. Perhaps it taxes the mind of the mentally ill when they think about walking into a police station and asking to file a report so it's all on record.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
JR Harris
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 22:22
Permalink
Do you know this from experience?
You are one of those pagan AA members I take?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
btnben
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 06:55
Permalink
Check on fornits JR
Looks like someone's got access to his IP address or something. Danny get's outed every time days before on here.
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Fri, 03/02/2012 - 22:24
Permalink
You take where??
You take where??
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
avogadno
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:30
Permalink
Becket, I updated the blog as
Becket, I updated the blog as to why I posted this article.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
becket
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:56
Permalink
That's fine, avogadno, but I
That's fine, avogadno, but I was wondering what JR Harris meant when he asked me, "You are one of those pagan AA members I take?" on page 3 of this blog. When I asked him, "You take where??" he did not answer. Is it customary to be so rude here?
One more thing: would you be good enough to go into some detail regarding your following statement: "More than 40% of people that abuse alcohol and drugs are medicating for a psychological illness." Do you mean a co-morbidity situation, or are you saying that true alcohol and drug abuse (and not recreational or merely heavy use) are both psychological illnesses? Thanks.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
btnben
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:01
Permalink
Nice trick...lol
Usually when people start off by saying "So you're saying", or "Do you mean" and then supply something different to what you said, they are not looking for clarification, they are looking to change what you said. Avo said "More than 40% of people that abuse alcohol and drugs are medicating for a psychological illness." Why do you need to change it. If you didn't understand, say so, but don't try putting words into people's mouths. Not "Rigorously Honest"...lol
God damn it, get me a whiskey
Bill W, Deathbed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc
becket
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:44
Permalink
I didn't change the meaning
I didn't change the meaning of the statement, btnben. I quoted it word for word and then asked for clarification on one either/or point. May I ask why you think this is devious or suspect in some way?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
JR Harris
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:04
Permalink
Do you or do you not Chant the Pagan 12 Steps of AA?
If you do, you are breaking many of the Ten Commandments followed by Christians, Muslims and Jews since they all have the same heritage. Do you partake in the Pagan ceremonies and ritual chanting of Alcoholics Anonymous?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
avogadno
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:40
Permalink
Psycholigical illness and substance abuse.
No, I'm not saying that true alcohol and drug abuse are psycholocial illnesses. I'm saying that some people that have psychiatric problems or an illness use/abuse substances to help treat themselves of their symptoms. Using substances in itself is not a psychiatric illness. No in my strong opinion anyway.
I can't say that (40% of) recreational users are not self medicating. Maybe they are. Maybe some do and the % is lower. What do you think? I was surprised when a counselor told me that she occasionally drinks a glass of wine only because of the taste. I honestly don't understand that. At the time, I seriously thought that all people that drank did so for the benifit of it's affect.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
becket
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:50
Permalink
Here's your statement, in
Here's your statement, in your own words, referred to as "My response" (in part):
"What happened here is a good example of how meetings can get out of control. More than 40% of people that abuse alcohol and drugs are medicating for a psychological illness."
Where does this statistic come from?
It's possible that someone with severe anxiety will drink to calm the anxiety. Say this person's anxiety does not relent and drinking increases to the point where dependence develops. Now you have a two-fold problem. With increased drinking, what is this person medicating?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
avogadno
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 17:45
Permalink
Becket, is there something wrong with my quote?
BTW, what is your opinion re self-medicating for mental illness, besides anxiety?
I updated the blog again and I hope the quotes and link answer your questions.
Yes, I agree that people might drink to cope with anxiety. They might drink to cope for a number of reasons.
Are you asking me what is happening after continuous drinking to cope with mental problems or anxiety? Are they still self medicating or are they now an alcoholic regardless of the initial anxiety? I think it isn't black and white.......I'm not a doc, fyi, I get my information from other sources and am giving my opinions based on that........Some maybe. Maybe others develope an addiction to alcohol and become alcoholic. The links I posted in the blog indicate that drinking/drugging can worsen the initial problem. I think that my experience is a good example of this. My DOC was opiates. I know for a fact and without any doubt that I started using to help eleviate depression (technicially a psychiatric illness). I've suffered for depression for most, if not all of my life. Later, when I discovered that I had a terrible addiction to opiates I realized that my depression had also gotten worse. I felt that I still needed to use opiates to relieve my depressioin. Regardless of this, I was also grew to love the "high" and even if I no longer needed to treat my depression I had urges to use. It is much easier for me to control my urges if the depression isn't present. I think that addiction (for most people, and for me to be sure) is an illness of sorts and defiitely not a disease.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
avogadno
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:48
Permalink
I can't answer what JR means.
I can't answer what JR means.
I don't follow every discussion closely. Sometimes I comment and don't get responses too. I'm sure I've missed some questions directed to me as well. Maye that's what happened.
I'll admit that I (me) ignore some questions or comments. I try not to respond to people that are being assholes or are asking personal questions that aren't necessary.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
AntiDenial
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 06:47
Permalink
"Members occasional bring
"Members occasional bring children to meetings. Also, minors attend too. Throw into the mix that many members are vulnerable newcomers that are sick and scared and the result is a perfect recipe for disaster. This incident can be added to growing number that has been occurring: Violence with and without weapons, sexual harassment, general misconduct (urinating on and around the public property, littering, general rowdiness).
I also posted this article because there have been cases of child molestation ."
I dont know how many child advocacy groups are aware of these dangerous situations children and teens are put into. I would like to them get involved with this problem.
Articles of Criminals In Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous
www.nadaytona.org
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