Prove to me Bill Was a 13 Stepper

I just had dinner with an old AA friend. I told them I left and why. She had never heard that he was a 13 stepper. She said the board made up the rumors. I do know a Bill Wilson relative who now I am going to call.

Can you provide hard evidence? Thanks.

causeandeffect's picture

Well, I'm pretty sure that the Orange papers has a copy of wilson's will that left 10% to his mistress.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

Sorry, but having a mistress and 13th stepping - preying on members of the opposite sex in and around meeting sites - are two different animals entirely. Whether or not Bill Wilson left any part of his estate to his mistress is immaterial to the argument that he was 13th stepping. I understood that Bill was reluctant to even attend meetings. Evidence to support his alleged 13th stepping is going to have to be pretty convincing.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

btnben's picture

"Bill Wilson was habitually unfaithful to the wife who was supporting him, both before and after sobriety. Bill was such an outrageous philanderer that the other elder A.A. members had to form a "Founder's Watch Committee", whose job it was to follow Bill Wilson around, and watch him, and break up budding sexual relationships with the pretty young things before he publicly embarrassed A.A. yet again.1

The impression that he was a ladies' man seems to have come from the way he sometimes behaved at AA gatherings. When Bill wasn't accompanied by Lois (or later, Helen), he could often be observed engaged in animated conversation with an attractive young newcomer. His interest in younger women seemed to grow more intense with age. Barry Leach, who knew Bill nearly thirty years, told me that in the 1960s he and other friends of Bill's formed what they came to refer to as the "Founder's Watch" committee. People were delegated to keep track of Bill during the socializing that usually accompanies AA functions. When they observed a certain gleam in his eye, they would tactfully steer Bill off in one direction and the dewy-eyed newcomer in another.
Bill W., A Biography of Alcoholics Anonymous Co-Founder Bill Wilson, Francis Hartigan, 2000, page 192.
Susan Cheever reported the same thing in her biography of Bill Wilson, although she tried hard to downplay its importance, using standard stereotypical alcoholic Minimization and Denial to claim that it didn't matter much and wasn't any big deal:

Many people in A.A. worried that Bill Wilson's sexual behavior would be discovered and reflect badly on the movement. Whether or not they were necessary, self-appointed "Bill watchers" usually stayed close to him at meetings and conferences to prevent him from interacting with attractive newcomers in a way that might appear unseemly.
My Name Is Bill; Bill Wilson — His Life And The Creation Of Alcoholics Anonymous, Susan Cheever, page 225."

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

massive's picture

btnben-thanks for the quotes. I just got the book and am reading it now. The Susan Cheever one I do not have.

Massive

becket's picture

Animated conversation is not sexual misbehavior.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

btnben's picture

That was Bill W's thing

God damn it, get me a whiskey

Bill W, Deathbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?source=patrick.net&v=Sdn3O6aaMNc

avogadno's picture

You either believe it or you don't. To me, the fact that it was something that was mentioned about him is a big deal. This is not a topic casually brought up. If he just talked to the women than no biggie, but the founder needed people watching him? That's serious.

What other information is AA hiding deep in the vaults? Could this be part of it? Could it be that Bill W. is the same Bill Wilson that hit and killed a man while drunk driving in 1968?

There is also a Bill G. Wilson that was on the Canadian Alcoholism recovery board. They show a picture of a different man next to the article, but what a coincidence that they have the same name, same middle initial. This particular Bill G. Wilson stated publicly that it was worse to have one beer and drink/drive rather than a six pack. Reason being is that intoxicated drivers KNOW that they are too drunk to drive. Those that have one think they are just fine.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

massive's picture

Drunk driving cover up. If our government could cover up Laura Bush killing a man in a drunk driving crash in her youth Im sure they could cover up Bill Wilsons as well.

Massive

Orange's picture

That's easy:

Bill recruited his new mistresses out of A.A. meetings and get-togethers, and then used the Grapevine office to support them. Bill's behavior was so blatant that the other A.A. members had to set up a "Founder's Watch Committee" to follow Bill around and keep him from creating another public disgrace:

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-otherwomen.html

massive's picture

Thanks orange and everyone here ..I already believe this, but I am having to prove this to someone sober 24 years who told me to read Pass it on and I want to get to the best souse etc to expose the truth.
I was her sponsor for a few years and we were pretty close . I told her the story of how & whY I left AA and she was very shocked.

Massive

Orange's picture

Good luck. If she will actually listen to facts, then you are ahead of the game. As you can see in the letters section, there are a lot of true believers for whom no mountain of facts is enough evidence to convince them of something that they don't want to believe...
Have a good day.

There have been a couple of books, the most recent one by Susan Cheever, that document extensively the 13th Stepping and not just a mistress that he installed as the Grapevine editor. Tom Powers, the editor who helped Bill write the TwelveXTwelve, broke with him over his blatant abuse of women he found in AA meeting rooms. Cheever's book is "My Name is Bill W." and Nan Robertson's is "Getting Better." Both authors are self disclosed members of AA and Bill W. worshippers, but found it impossible not to comment on and document his flagrant womanizing. The burden of proof in this one is clearly on those who insist without evidence that he was a saint with just a lovely mistress on the side.

massive's picture

SO in Susan Cleever's book she talk s about his relationship with women in the program? Have you read it all?

Massive

massive's picture

Thanks Soberbychoice! I just got in the mail to do my research my name is Bill W. by Frances Hartigan. Chapter 25
And I quote " IN the 1950's, when Bill was in his early sixties. he began an affair that was different than any he had had before. The woman's name was Helen Wynn, and she was in her early forties when Bill met her."

an affair that was different than any he had had before. That statements means he had many affairs before.

8 more paragraphs later it says" Bill's womanizing was common knowledge in New York AA circles. Many members who joined AA in NY long after his death told me that the first things they learned about the program's illustrious founder was that he was a ladies man and a bad sponsor."

Ok Im reading on into this chapter and it is clear like Orange said...SHe was a newcomer, newly sober and he was sober 20 years or more by then? Yes in deed he got her a job at The Grapevine.

I have a connection with another person related to this. I cam going to do more digging.

Also in the book it says..." Shepperd Strudwick was Helen Wynn's son." He might be still alive and he visited stepping stones with his mother Helen.

Massive