Soberman's blog

I made my first “AA” meeting on Feb 22, 1970.
On Feb 22, 2013 I will have been sober 42 year.
I am now 80 years old.

Over the past 42 years I have made over 10,000 AA meetings.

I became a “Big Bill”.
I stopped going about 10 years ago.

This is a fact.
I have no way of proving the following statement.

Going to over 40 different meeting within 50 miles of my home in Michigan and asking If any member started AA after Feb 22, 1970 and stayed sober?
I only found 2.

The “Big Bills” staying sober in a Cave

Part 1:

Sober man: Compare AA in respect of education and its lack to such an experience as this.

Sober man: Picture a AA meeting of Big Bills dwelling in a sort of underground large cave with a long entrance open to the light on its entire width.

Sober man: Conceive AA members as having their legs and necks fastened to their ankles or feet, so that they remain in the same spot, able to look forward only, and prevented by the restraints from turning their heads.

"The way you use the word `God' does not show whom you mean but, rather, what you mean"
Natural Theology attempt to prove that God does exist
Natural a-theology: attempt to prove that God does not exist

What do we mean by God as We Understand Him?

Suppose we go back in time. Suppose we regress to Just before the first ‘real thing’ was created. We are looking at ‘God’. We are looking at ‘I AM’.
We are not permitted to ask the question ‘Who created God’.
We will assume that ‘I Am’ exists.

Big Bills free will argument is embarrassingly brittle.
I recently reviewed The Big Book on the issue.

The Problem of Evil is an insurmountable one for “Big Bills” and other alcoholics who believe in a perfectly loving, all-powerful and all-knowing god.

There have been intense and motivated efforts over the past two millennia to defend such a position rationally, and they have all failed miserably, utterly and in many cases, dishonestly.

Some approached involve invoking an unknown "greater good" defense (which throws god's omnipotence under the bus).

At one time when I made my first AA meeting, AA was anonymous.
We used only our first name.

No one was permitted to tell anyone about our AA meeting.
No one was permitted to tell anyone where we held our meetngs
A new person to AA was introduced at our meeting by a member, a vote was made to accept him/her and he/she would be accepted.

No new member was accepted without this sponcer.

We did not advertise our meetings.

1. Suppose that Jesus Christ in his ‘God Uniform’ is omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good.
2. Evils caused by members of AA exist.

Is Alcoholic Anonymous the best treatment Jesus Christ can come up with to treat alcoholism?

If Jesus really is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and all loving, then He would want every alcoholic who joins AA to get sober and stay sober?

The question is almost an embarrassment for AA today.

The doctrine that you are "powerless over alcohol" is also a ready-made excuse for drunken binges, the morning after — "Honey, it isn't my fault that I got drunk last night and went on a huge binge and threw a screaming drunken temper tantrum and tore up the house.
Dr. Silkworth says that I have a disease, and I'm powerless over alcohol, so I can't help it."

In this discussion I will take you through a decision-making process that leads to immediate recovery from addiction to alcohol.
To come along with me, it will be necessary for you to suspend all of your beliefs about the nature of addiction and recovery.
Then, you can build a foundation for self-recovery based upon your own original values and beliefs which were clear to you as a much younger person, even before you became involved with alcohol.

Why do members of AA have to believe the 12 Step Program of Recovery based on either epistemic or beneficial reasons?
Epistemic: relating to knowledge.

Cannot the 12 Step Program of Recovery be based on faith?

Let us take a look at some theories of faith in order to see the problems of believing on faith.

“Big Bills” theory is representative of a traditional conception of faith.
In his view, faith is not opposed to reason but is in some respects guided by it.

Does the alcoholic have "Free Will" with respect to drinking alcohol?
Origin of the Will
We are conscious of only a tiny fraction of the information that our brain is processing each moment. Although we continually notice changes in our experiences, in thought, mood, perception, behavior, we are utterly unaware of the thought process that produces them. In fact we can be very poor witnesses to experiences itself. By glancing at your face or the tone of your voice, others are often more aware of your state of mind and motivations than you are.

Sober-man: "If ‘God as we understand him’ really is all loving, then how can He allow any member of AA to get drunk?"

The question is almost an embarrassment for Big Bills today.

On the one hand, the Big Book teaches that ‘God as we understand him’ is love, and yet, on the other hand, it warns that those who reject ‘God as we understand him’ will get drunk, and it contains frequent warnings about the danger of non- belief.

But aren't these two somehow inconsistent with each other?

Origin of the Will
We are conscious of only a tiny fraction of the information that our brain is processing each moment. Although we continually notice changes in our experiences, in thought, mood, perception, behavior, we are utterly unaware of the thought process that produces them. In fact we can be very poor witnesses to experiences itself. By glancing at your face or the tone of your voice, others are often more aware of your state of mind and motivations than you are.

Which comes first, the thought or the decision?
I think therefore I am?
I think of taking a drink?
I think of smoking a cig?
I think of eating a pie?
I have no "Free Will' with respect to a thought.
I cannot control a thought.
It just happens.
Sober-man
I don't drink and I do as I please?.
I have been doing this since Feb 22,1970
I am 80 years young.

My Question?
How do we define the will?
When and how does it occur?
Can I the alcoholic make the decision to never drink/drug again and never change my mind using will power?
Think about this?

Sober-man
Don't drink, do as you please?

Myth:

But why do members of AA have to believe the 12 Step Program of Recovery based on either epistemic or beneficial reasons?

Epistemic: relating to knowledge.

Cannot the 12 Step Program of Recovery be based on faith?

Let us take a look at some theories of faith in order to see the problems of believing on faith.

“Big Bills” theory is representative of a traditional conception of faith.
In his view, faith is not opposed to reason but is in some respects guided by it.

What is your plan for sobriety?

I will now prove that the AA ‘God as We understand Him’ Exists.
1. God as we understand Him if He is Omnipotent
2. God as we understand Him if He is Omniscience
3. God as we understand Him if He is Wholly Good
4. EVIL caused from alcoholism exist in the world
5. Therefore God as we understand Him exist
There is something very wrong with the above
Can you fix it?

Don't drink, do as you please.
Soberman

If a ‘God as we understand Him’ exists, would a belief in this God offer a sound foundation for moral values and duties based on facts rather than thoughts or opinions?

Can the alcoholic base his/her sobriety on a plan that includes a“Don’t drink, do as you please”concept?

Soberman
Why not?
I did it.